IRC log of apa on 2016-01-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #apa
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-irc
16:53:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:53:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
16:53:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:53:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:53:19 [trackbot]
Date: 13 January 2016
16:53:44 [janina]
agenda?
16:53:54 [janina]
zakim, clear agenda
16:53:54 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
16:54:00 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:54:00 [janina]
agenda+ APA Housekeeping http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html
16:54:00 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
16:54:00 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:54:01 [janina]
agenda+ Pending CSS Flexbox CR http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/
16:54:03 [janina]
agenda+ Proposed Final Design for W3C Technical Reports http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0007.html
16:54:06 [janina]
agenda+ Draft APA Decision Policy http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy
16:54:08 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
16:54:11 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:54:14 [janina]
agenda+ be done
16:54:46 [janina]
zakim, next item
16:54:46 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:59:43 [fesch]
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17:00:07 [MichaelC]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0023.html
17:01:48 [LJWatson]
present+ LJWatson
17:02:43 [fesch]
present+ fesch
17:02:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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17:03:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:03:19 [janina]
present+ janina
17:04:21 [fesch]
scribe: fesch
17:06:15 [fesch]
what agendum is this?
17:06:20 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:07:59 [fesch]
js: news items?
17:08:29 [fesch]
rs: Samsung US is moving to dpub
17:09:11 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:09:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "APA Housekeeping http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html" taken up [from janina]
17:09:38 [fesch]
js: we have tracker set up anything else?
17:09:53 [joanie]
q+ to ask about making tracker readonly
17:10:00 [joanie]
q-
17:10:19 [fesch]
mc: all is set up, wiki, tracker... please abandon the the PF tracker
17:10:51 [fesch]
mc: we are ready to request PF tracker be shut down
17:11:23 [fesch]
js: wiki for logging specs... provides bread crumbs... that may be remaining infrastructure
17:11:39 [fesch]
mc: I am putting specs in the wiki as we look at them
17:12:02 [fesch]
mc: I haven't copied stuff from the PF wiki to APA wiki, spec reviews are new
17:13:57 [fesch]
mc: need to change password...
17:14:41 [JF]
JF has joined #apa
17:15:18 [fesch]
js: membership - James N (Oracle) lost, he couldn't get approval for another group, Cynthia not yet in... we are thin on browser support (only Yandex)
17:15:48 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:15:48 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
17:16:07 [MichaelC]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
17:16:41 [MichaelC]
close action-1763
17:16:41 [trackbot]
Closed action-1763.
17:16:55 [JF]
present+ JF
17:17:54 [fesch]
js: digital publishing will meet with us next week
17:18:28 [LJWatson]
Pointer Lock https://w3c.github.io/pointerlock/
17:18:34 [fesch]
lw: have question on pointer lock
17:21:25 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:49 [MichaelC]
action-1749: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:50 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-1749 Review ui events.
17:21:55 [MichaelC]
action-1750: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:55 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-1750 Review ui events.
17:24:16 [jamesn]
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17:24:22 [JF]
Q+
17:24:24 [fesch]
js: I don't see anyone setting up a UI without using ARIA, data changing on the fly, we may want them to make them say that in their spec. they have a section on security, so maybe we want an accessibility statement
17:25:21 [janina]
q?
17:25:25 [janina]
ack jf
17:25:33 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/tr/webmidi/
17:25:35 [fesch]
js: do we want to ask for sections on accessibility?
17:26:22 [fesch]
jf: At TPAC we talked about this and we have this as a global need as well
17:26:37 [janina]
q?
17:27:24 [fesch]
js: I don't want to close this action without some comfort that accessibility is being addressed, maybe we want to point them to authoring guide
17:27:33 [fesch]
js: think about a statement for it
17:28:03 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:28:03 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
17:28:45 [fesch]
rs: those are the UI events from HTML is there anything new?
17:29:02 [fesch]
js: that is a question, we may be able to close it?
17:29:07 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/ Gamepad
17:29:45 [MichaelC]
action: Léonie to review Gamepad https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/
17:29:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2001 - Review gamepad https://www.w3.org/tr/gamepad/ [on Léonie Watson - due 2016-01-20].
17:31:16 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-ext-req/ Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions
17:31:59 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Webmention
17:32:59 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/ Social Web Protocols
17:34:12 [MichaelC]
action: fesch to review Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/
17:34:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2002 - Review social web protocols https://www.w3.org/tr/social-web-protocols/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-01-20].
17:34:44 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/ Data on the Web Best Practices
17:36:06 [fesch]
lw: found email requesting us look at presentation API on Nov 6
17:36:22 [LJWatson]
Presentation API http://w3c.github.io/presentation-api/
17:40:00 [fesch]
jd: interested in topic, next couple of weeks is tough
17:40:28 [MichaelC]
action: joanie to review Presentation API https://www.w3.org/TR/presentation-api/ - due 17 Feb
17:40:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2003 - Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-02-17].
17:41:56 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:41:56 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Pending CSS Flexbox CR http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/" taken up [from janina]
17:42:41 [fesch]
js: rich wrote up a email explaining the concern
17:43:11 [fesch]
js: CSS has some good approaches, but haven't documented them
17:43:37 [fesch]
js: we may need to ask them to document it... lets remember what was said at TPAC
17:44:12 [janina]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0025.html
17:44:18 [jnurthen]
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17:44:37 [fesch]
rs: flexbox changes the DOM order which is different than visible order.... if the flexbox order is meaningful then tabindex should follow flexbox order
17:45:52 [fesch]
rs: young designers want to use it and it causes accessibility problems, creates work, folks with disability get a worse experience and accessibility folks look like meanies,
17:46:23 [fesch]
rs: totally preventable ... by having flexbox affect the tab and read order
17:46:30 [janina]
TPAC Discussion: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/30-apa-minutes.html
17:46:54 [fesch]
rs: we have the same issue in WCAG 1 .... we are repeating history...
17:47:06 [janina]
q?
17:47:14 [fesch]
rs: similar problem with content injection
17:47:21 [fesch]
q+
17:47:48 [fesch]
rs: representative of a bigger problem, CSS working group needs to work on interoperability
17:48:10 [fesch]
js: agree with you rich
17:48:24 [LJWatson]
Q+
17:48:32 [JF]
Q+
17:48:57 [janina]
ack fe
17:49:09 [fesch]
fe: round display and grid layout have the same issue
17:49:29 [janina]
ack jw
17:49:30 [JF]
Jesse Beach
17:49:32 [JF]
ack JF
17:49:38 [janina]
ack lj
17:50:07 [fesch]
lw: in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion, doesn't change DOM and not API something in the middle
17:50:57 [fesch]
jn: kind of works, affects keyboard sequence by not AT read order... two sequences are different in Firefox, other browsers may have wrong order but both orders the same
17:51:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q+
17:51:10 [fesch]
lw: in the browser is where stuff needs to happen
17:51:44 [fesch]
js: CSS need to document stuff they haven't yet documented, we may object to spec moving forward...
17:52:07 [LJWatson]
ack me
17:52:13 [JF]
+1 to Janina's point(s) - fantasai spoke directly to the gaps in documentation
17:52:18 [fesch]
rs: happy to work with browser vendors, but CSS has to help and document, history is repeating
17:52:44 [fesch]
rs: we don't know what CSS next steps are...
17:53:22 [fesch]
js: I promised a response this week, fairly well recorded in minutes at TPAC...
17:53:55 [fesch]
js: thought the FF approach could work.... CSS wants to move to PR sometime around May
17:54:19 [janina]
q?
17:54:22 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack
17:54:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
17:54:27 [fesch]
js: need to have gap covered, documented or steps moving forward
17:54:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack me
17:54:49 [LJWatson]
s/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion, doesn't change DOM and not API something in the middle/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion about Firefox's attempt to resolve the problem, which doesn't change DOM or API but does something in the middle/
17:55:35 [fesch]
js: don't mind stuff moving to CR as long as we can ask for changes in CR...
17:55:44 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:55:44 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Draft APA Decision Policy http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy" taken up [from janina]
17:56:38 [JF]
agenda?
17:56:48 [fesch]
zakim takeup item 6
17:56:57 [fesch]
zakim, take up item 6
17:56:57 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Proposed Final Design for W3C Technical Reports http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0007.html" taken up [from janina]
17:57:39 [fesch]
js: standard practice vs what WCAG requires
17:57:52 [fesch]
js: for links
17:58:28 [fesch]
js: WCAG on requires that it be recognized that a link be recognized as a link
17:59:07 [fesch]
js: we didn't find anything where WCAG says the foreground and background color changes...
17:59:26 [JF]
Q+
17:59:41 [fesch]
js: will cast the net wider, this is a major enough issue, that I can write this up for the WAI list
17:59:48 [janina]
q?
17:59:50 [fesch]
js: comments?
17:59:53 [janina]
ack jf
18:00:43 [fesch]
jf: One issue - when you have an actionable item, need a color identifier, the underline is not
18:01:15 [fesch]
jf: WCAG does not talk about identification of actionable items...
18:01:25 [jnurthen]
q+
18:01:45 [fesch]
jf: I think actionable items need a contrast ratio
18:02:34 [fesch]
js: we need color contrast, do we want the text for a link need a different color?
18:02:37 [MichaelC]
q+
18:03:11 [fesch]
jf: low vision user needs to be able to see and recognize an actionable element
18:03:34 [janina]
q?
18:03:54 [fesch]
jn: she has modified the color contrast to 3:1
18:04:47 [fesch]
jn: 4.5 allows you to read, 3:1 can be seen, a survey of 1 said he liked the underlined links
18:05:09 [MichaelC]
q-
18:05:50 [fesch]
jf: I don't think we have enough data to say 4.5 for text and 3:1 for underline is OK
18:06:34 [fesch]
jn: there is an WCAG understanding document that says you can use color and other (underline) as a way to show it
18:06:51 [fesch]
jf: I disagree
18:07:32 [fesch]
jn: sometimes you need to, how else will you differentiate visited vs unvisited links?
18:07:59 [fesch]
jn: need the low vision folks to say
18:08:20 [fesch]
js: I should take this to a wider list
18:08:54 [fesch]
js: the problem happens when you add the third visited (vs unvisited) link
18:09:05 [fesch]
jn: folks can change their link color
18:09:31 [fesch]
jf: since this is a W3C style guide, we should eat our own dog food...
18:10:00 [fesch]
jn: I think this is a good template that helps people, want to see it adopted....
18:10:27 [fesch]
jf: perhaps my objections are to big...
18:11:17 [fesch]
js: next week we will have dpub and pointerlock
18:11:29 [fesch]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html fesch
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