W3C

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

12 Nov 2015

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
r12a, Addison, JcK, David
Regrets
Felix, Steve
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
aphillip

Contents


Agenda

Action Items

http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

close action-467

<trackbot> Closed action-467.

close action-479

<trackbot> Closed action-479.

Info Share

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/default-font

richard: revitalized the above test
... haven't linked to it from anywhere yet
... shows how language affects the font selected when there is no styling

<r12a> http://w3c.github.io/tlreq/

richard: working on tibetan layout requirements
... one of the actions from tpac
... was update with what info I had
... do that in english
... and pass along to translate to chinese
... just completed first pass
... may be ready for fpwd
... soon-ish
... after the chinese is ready
... may notice that the styling of the tlreq looks a bit different
... tried applying the new CR spec styling
... but a lot comes over
... asked on sped-prod to update respec
... comments need to be sent by end of november
... (rummages for link to fantasai's sample document)

<r12a> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/design/w3c-restyle/2016/sample

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/issues

<r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/spec-prod/2015OctDec/0009.html

RADAR and Active Work Review

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

clreq needs links

richard: bidi, contacted by developer working on safari
... isolation of @dir
... send tests that now break because of isolation
... helping him work through those or if they are expected
... broken things were stuff like HEBREW<span dir=ltr></span>HEBREW
... isolated span is neutral rather than strong
... can look like a "lost space" because of isolation

Timed Text WG Charter?

<JcK> me may have to drop off again, briefly, but without much warning

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2015OctDec/0052.html

http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html

richard: worth reviewing the discussion of bidi in webvtt
... think they did a pretty good job

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/227

<scribe> ACTION: addison: write back to timed text and note that we've reviewed their charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-480 - Write back to timed text and note that we've reviewed their charter [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-11-19].

Encoding Tests for Encoding Spec

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Nov/0005.html

http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/encoding/legacy-mb-japanese/euc-jp/eucjp-encode-002.html

richard: encoding is into the legacy encoding
... uses a form that sends a URL to an iframe in the test page
... and the query part of the URL hopefully has the correct percent encoding for the character
... in this case EUC-JP
... set an accept-charset to the form
... Edge/IE don't use accept-charset of the form
... use the tables from the encoding spec to generate expected results
... changed actual test file
... it was in utf-8
... changed the test file to euc-jp and the tests worked correctly on edge
... but using javascript to generate the code points
... before I spend a lot of time on this, want to share this approach

addison: approach looks okay to me
... maybe consider the negative cases (unmapped code points)

Possibility for a character to be interpreted differently depending on locale

issue-506?

<trackbot> issue-506 -- Possibility for a character to be interpreted differently depending on locale ⓣ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/506

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/218#issuecomment-156012188

richard: think backslash is a red herring
... actual quesstion is about kanji vs. non-kanji style
... need a way to send the information about the content
... one suggestion was accept-language

addison: accept-language not helpful: it's from the user agent

jck: locale-specific font preference issue

Because the presentational variations (among other things) do matter, the ability to mark up documents and runs of text within documents with languages tags is something that the I18N WG recommends strongly. But this thread seems to be confusing the shape of the glyph with the processing that might be applied to the text.

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=19660

<JcK> The web interactions with ISO 646 national characters also shows up in another place although every instance of it is arguably a bug. The problem arose when the default web (mostly HTML) rule was ISO 8859-1 and folks in some countries said something equivalent to "8859-1 doesn't work for me so I will interpret it as meaning 8859-whatever-we-use-locally. There too, the problem is one coded...

<JcK> ...octet represents different abstract characters. The solution, of course, is "use Unicode; don't do that"

addison: this issue is that second screen names or maybe descriptions are displayed in your device

(a) unicode code points don't change and presentation of them does NOT change the meaning

(b) end user's expected shapes of the characters depends on the font which depends on the language

jck: see also arabic styles

(c) needs to be a way to pass the language of the content with the content

(d) accept-language is looking at it from the wrong side

(e) language negotiation is a very different thing: offer a way to request a specific language

richard: offer a way to change the presentation
... "those few characters that have a different look and feel"

(f) receiver has to be able to sub different font according to the language information

backslash is a red herring. avoid if possible.

<scribe> ACTION: richard: respond to presentation-api issue 506 with discussed set of comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-481 - Respond to presentation-api issue 506 with discussed set of comments [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-11-19].

richard: ... and about that backslash...

AOB?

richard: still workingon webvtt roundup

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: write back to timed text and note that we've reviewed their charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: respond to presentation-api issue 506 with discussed set of comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015/11/12 17:55:58 $