14:46:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:46:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-irc
14:47:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:47:08 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:47:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:47:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:47:12 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:47:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:47:13 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2015
14:47:22 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:47:27 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:47:51 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Nov/0006.html
14:47:58 <aphillip> Regrets+ Felix
14:48:04 <aphillip> Regrets+ Steve
14:48:27 <aphillip> agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
14:48:37 <aphillip> agenda+ Timed Text WG Charter?
14:48:47 <aphillip> agenda+ Possibility for a character to be interpreted differently depending on locale
14:48:52 <Behnam> Behnam has joined #i18n
14:48:57 <aphillip> agenda+ Encoding Tests for Encoding Spec
14:49:05 <aphillip> agenda+ CharMod
14:49:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:57:54 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #I18n
15:00:32 <r12a> present+
15:00:40 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
15:00:40 <Zakim> Present: r12a
15:00:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, nikos, koji, trackbot
15:01:17 <aphillip> present+ Addison
15:05:19 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
15:05:20 <aphillip> agenda?
15:05:40 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:05:50 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:06:54 <aphillip> close action-467
15:06:54 <trackbot> Closed action-467.
15:07:39 <aphillip> close action-479
15:07:39 <trackbot> Closed action-479.
15:07:44 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:07:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:08:19 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/default-font
15:08:28 <aphillip> richard: revitalized the above test
15:08:44 <aphillip> ... haven't linked to it from anywhere yet
15:09:04 <aphillip> ... shows how language affects the font selected when there is no styling
15:09:44 <r12a> http://w3c.github.io/tlreq/
15:09:46 <aphillip> richard: working on tibetan layout requirements
15:09:52 <aphillip> ... one of the actions from tpac
15:09:58 <aphillip> ... was update with what info I had
15:10:02 <aphillip> ... do that in engllish
15:10:10 <aphillip> ... and pass along to translate to chinese
15:10:15 <aphillip> ... just completed first pass
15:10:23 <aphillip> s/engllish/english/
15:10:30 <aphillip> richard: may be ready for fpwd
15:10:38 <aphillip> ... soon-ish
15:10:45 <aphillip> ... after the chinese is ready
15:11:08 <aphillip> agenda?
15:11:28 <aphillip> richard: may notice that the styling of the tlreq looks a bit different
15:11:38 <aphillip> ... tried applying the new CR spec styling
15:11:45 <aphillip> ... but a lot comes over
15:12:10 <aphillip> ... asked on sped-prod to update respec
15:12:26 <aphillip> richard: comments need to be sent by end of november
15:12:45 <aphillip> ... (rummages for link to fantasai's sample document)
15:13:06 <r12a> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/design/w3c-restyle/2016/sample
15:13:25 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/issues
15:13:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:16:09 <r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/spec-prod/2015OctDec/0009.html
15:17:33 <aphillip> agenda?
15:17:45 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:17:45 <Zakim> agendum 1. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
15:17:56 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
15:18:34 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
15:20:44 <aphillip> clreq needs links
15:21:23 <aphillip> richard: bidi, contacted by developer working on safari
15:21:31 <aphillip> ... isolation of @dir
15:21:43 <aphillip> ... send tests that now break because of isolation
15:22:00 <aphillip> ... helping him work through those or if they are expected
15:22:18 <aphillip> ... is legacy content an issue
15:22:51 <aphillip> ... broken things were stuff like HEBREW<span dir=ltr></span>HEBREW
15:23:20 <aphillip> ... isolated span is neutral rather than strong
15:23:48 <aphillip> ... can look like a "lost space" because of isolation
15:24:51 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:26:32 <JcK> present+ JcK
15:27:00 <aphillip> agenda?
15:27:22 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:27:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Timed Text WG Charter?" taken up [from aphillip]
15:27:46 <JcK> me may have to drop off again, briefly, but without much warning
15:28:17 <aphillip> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2015OctDec/0052.html
15:28:27 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
15:29:25 <aphillip> richard: worth reviewing the discussion of bidi in webvtt
15:29:30 <aphillip> ... think they did a pretty good job
15:29:42 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/227
15:31:21 <aphillip> action: addison: write back to timed text and note that we've reviewed their charter
15:31:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-480 - Write back to timed text and note that we've reviewed their charter [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-11-19].
15:31:26 <aphillip> agenda?
15:31:56 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:31:56 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Encoding Tests for Encoding Spec" taken up [from aphillip]
15:32:19 <aphillip> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Nov/0005.html
15:32:28 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/encoding/legacy-mb-japanese/euc-jp/eucjp-encode-002.html
15:33:51 <aphillip> richard: encoding is into the encoding
15:34:04 <aphillip> ... uses a form that sends a URL to an iframe in the test page
15:34:20 <aphillip> ... and the query part of the URL hopefully has the correct percent encoding for the character
15:34:28 <aphillip> ... in this case EUC-JP
15:34:38 <aphillip> ... set an accept-charset to the form
15:34:48 <aphillip> ... Edge/IE don't use accept-charset of the form
15:35:19 <aphillip> richard: use the tables from the encoding spec to generate expected results
15:35:27 <aphillip> ... changed actual test file
15:35:30 <aphillip> ... it was in utf-8
15:35:48 <aphillip> ... changed the test file to euc-jp and the tests worked correctly on edge
15:36:21 <aphillip> ... but using javascript to generate the code points
15:36:47 <aphillip> ... before I spend a lot of time on this, want to share this approach
15:39:35 <aphillip> addison: approach looks okay to me
15:39:42 <aphillip> ... maybe considere theh negative cases (unmapped code points)
15:40:02 <aphillip> agenda?
15:40:13 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:40:13 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Possibility for a character to be interpreted differently depending on locale" taken up [from aphillip]
15:40:37 <aphillip> issue-506?
15:40:37 <trackbot> issue-506 -- Possibility for a character to be interpreted differently depending on locale ⓣ -- open
15:40:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/506
15:40:46 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/218#issuecomment-156012188
15:40:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:42:30 <aphillip> richard: think backslash is a red herring
15:42:46 <aphillip> ... actual quesstion is about kanji vs. non-kanji style
15:42:57 <aphillip> ... need a way to send the information about the content
15:43:11 <aphillip> ... one suggestion was accept-language
15:43:36 <aphillip> addison: accept-language not helpful: it's fro the user agent
15:43:42 <aphillip> s/fro/from/
15:43:53 <aphillip> jck: locale-specific font preference issue
15:46:17 <aphillip> Because the presentational variations (among other things) do matter, the ability to mark up documents and runs of text within documents with languages tags is something that the I18N WG recommends strongly. But this thread seems to be confusing the shape of the glyph with the processing that might be applied to the text.
15:48:02 <aphillip> 门
15:48:18 <aphillip> 門
15:50:29 <aphillip> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=19660
15:52:13 <JcK> The web interactions with ISO 646 national characters also shows up in another place although every instance of it is arguably a bug.  The problem arose when the default web (mostly HTML) rule was ISO 8859-1 and folks in some countries said something equivalent to "8859-1 doesn't work for me so I will interpret it as meaning 8859-whatever-we-use-locally.  There too, the problem is one coded...
15:52:15 <JcK> ...octet represents different abstract characters.  The solution, of course, is "use Unicode; don't do that"
15:52:27 <aphillip> addison: this issue is that second screen names or maybe descriptions are displayed in your device
15:56:00 <aphillip> (a) unicode code points don't change and presentation of them does NOT change the meaning
15:57:14 <aphillip> (b) end user's expected shapes of the characters depends on the font which depends on the language
15:57:52 <aphillip> jck: see also arabic styles
15:58:18 <aphillip> (c) needs to be a way to pass the language of the content with the content
15:58:40 <aphillip> (d) accept-language is looking at it from the wrong side
15:59:38 <aphillip> (e) language negotiation is a very different thing: offer a way to request a specific language
16:00:39 <aphillip> richard: offer a way to change the presentation
16:00:56 <aphillip> ... "those few characters that have a different look and feel"
16:01:39 <aphillip> (f) receiver has to be able to sub different font according to the language information
16:03:22 <aphillip> backslash is a red herring. avoid if possible.
16:05:03 <aphillip> action: richard: respond to presentation-api issue 506 with discussed set of comments
16:05:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-481 - Respond to presentation-api issue 506 with discussed set of comments [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-11-19].
16:05:19 <aphillip> agenda?
16:05:39 <aphillip> richard: ... and about that backslash...
16:10:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:11:55 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:12:13 <aphillip> richard: still workingon webvtt roundup
16:14:07 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/12-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:14:12 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:14:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been r12a, Addison, JcK
16:14:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
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