Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 09 Apr 2015

<trackbot> Date: 09 April 2015

<Detlev> Getting passcode is not valid again

<Detlev> 3rd dial-in attempt - putting in Code: 6283 and getting "This passvode is not valid"

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/zakim.html

<Detlev> tried again, same result...

<Detlev> I give up, I think...

<Detlev> is there another pass code whIch might do the trick, perhaps?

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20150330_survey/results#xq4

<scribe> scribe: jon_avila

Survey starting at #4

kw: 3.4 device manipulation gestures - 2 techniques -- don't rely solely on gestures, allow use of hardware buttons, etc.
... comment from Jan that button are rare -- we do have that in note. Should we not have a technique for this or is it lower priority?

<Detlev> THANKS

jan: start by saying if the device has hardware buttons....

kw: agree to that
... David said we might need to rename technique to make it more clear. We can look at the later when we right -- KW will make note.

detlev: comment on when device buttons can be undone -- such as undo features.
... Say if you shake a device to start reading -- is there a way to stop it -- more of theoretical at this point.

kw: Any other thoughts on that?

Mike: Don't know if that falls differently categories then what we already have. Perhaps something related to instructions and user not being aware of that feature is available.

kw: keep that as usability for now. Let's move on to next one.
... 3.5 placing buttons where they are easy to access. One we have now correlates so they can be reached with one hand.

jan: Don't want to say just place buttons in a certain way because there is no standard on that.

Kw: principle of what we are saying is good but the technique hasn't been defined.

detlev: ability to shift things into place is something to think about

awk: ability to test is issue -- iPhone 6 feature does bring things down -- but other devices don't have that.

kw: Some people may hold device differently or have it mounted.

awk: Can the developer stop an OS feature -- that might be something.

jan: Samsung Note has similar feature

detlev: What about placing buttons on edge where user may grip phone?
... not easy to accidently press something

MikeS: iPad is mobile but not really usable with one hand while you are holding it. Are we too focused on phone.

kw: need to consider all of it.

MikeS: Force reset and screen shot may require two hands.

kw: gesture may be remappable

jan: touching and swiping from side of screen may also be issue for people with dexterity challenges

kw: If we had a technique -- what would it say?

marc: Would this only apply to gesture that are important or that don't have alternatives?

detlev: Seems that it would only be advisory -- since writing a failure technique would be difficult.

jan: commands need simple gestures such as button rather than requiring complex gestures to perform actions

detlev: when does a gesture become complex?
... some gestures with talkback require two fingers to moved at the same time and are very complex in the calendar.

<Jan> Perhaps: (Advisory) Provide simple gestures for controlling common functions.

mikeS: Principle that was implemented in iPhone common features should have the simplest gestures

<Kathy> - Providing simple gestures for common functions

detlev: Zoom is common but you don't want it to be confused with other gestures so that is why it has a complex gesture.

jan: That is an OS level gestures -- we are talking about what developers of app do. Like the simple idea for common gestures

New techniques procedure

Survey starting at #4

mikeS: Scroll page affect is to provide continuous scrolling

jan: important use case for scrolling on the fly -- but other things such as menu on the fly don't make as much sense

kw: Alan had commented that vertical scrolling is issue.

jan: may want to have an indicator to let people know there is more to come

kw: Detlev do you want to talk about hover and focus and selection with touch long states?

detlev: We covered that under 3.1 keyboard

marc: When you have random icons in application -- label may be read with screen reader but there is no way for non AT user to know what it is. Some apps have a long press that allow you to find out more information about what the icon does. A way to identify controls and icons by long pressing. May fall under SC 1.1.1. alt text for sighted user.

mikeS: long press is good example but not prescriptive as a technique as it is used by other things

kp: New long press techniques with Apple watch too.

awk: Marc when do you see this coming up?

marc: Example would be gmail -- as a new user -- not sure what control do what. Some controls do tell you want the icon does.

ja: MObile devices don't have option to display alt text instead of image. Can be issue for low vision users with small differences in images.

awk: similar to what is being discussed in cognitive TF. Something that fall under OS or browser and other situations when developer must address it.

kw: Some apps have help mode that comes up and helps users learn what things are.

New techniques procedure

kp: procedure to turn these into proposals

<Kim> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page#Current_Work

kp: under WCAG techniques are new techniques repository and instructions for writing new techniques in Github
... Jeanne will setup file already in github. Just replace text in ALL CAPS.

<jeanne> JS: The techniques previously identified are there. M001-M021.

kw: we have been trying to come up with key techniques that we should focus on. We will link to those in note. I will create a wiki page for each of the sections and our discussions.

<AWK> is there an IO version to view the generated HTML?

kp: The techniques such as M003 will appear in the github document at the end of the section.

detlev: What will be the process for review by WCAG WG before we start actual work?

kp: linking will happen after it's been agreed upon. We are just walking you through the logistics

kw: Want to get AWK's opinion on technique review from WG

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Operable_Techniques

awk: want to reduce extra work that's different from what the end result will be.
... would be good to discuss with WG to mitigate so techniques don't go down different path, etc.
... Separate discussion will be on advisory or sufficient and where it fits into extension model, etc.

jeanne: does what we write here have to fall under WCAG. Can we just have items that relate to this note?

awk: Ideally it would do both

detlev: could be confusing if items apply only to note and not WCAG

awk: we may end up with a WCAG advisory technique that is sufficient with an extension to WCAG. But maybe it will be 2 or 3 years before an extension comes out. By connecting it as an advisory now we could get it out sooner.

jeanne: Perhaps we should go back to using the WCAG technique template if we want to go that route.

<Jan> FYI: Back to the dynamically built content discussion: ARIA has http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-posinset and the APA (formerly PF) is apparently working on more support (e.g. in grids)

detlev: what is next step?

awk: like to make this happen faster. We want to drive more discussion and decisions onto list. Perhaps break this up into different emails and post to list. Say mobile TF is looking on feedback as these for techniques.
... how does that sound?

kw: Sure, up for that.

<Detlev> +1

kw: will collect feedback, discussion list, and then assign to people to create. will create survey. Also talk about Jan's proposal for an additional section in the document. a lot of parallel things happening at once.
... thank you for joining. look out for survey.

- DRAFT -

Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

09 Apr 2015

Attendees

Contents

Survey starting at #4

New techniques procedure

Survey starting at #4

New techniques procedure

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output