See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 02 April 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
nigel: Scans through agenda, requests AOB
group: no AOB
nigel: We have our F2F on
Thursday and Friday next week.
... The wiki page is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015
... We have one request to hold the WebVTT discussion topics
late morning or early afternoon.
... I propose that we do that on the Friday
... I'll update the agenda later, possibly on Tuesday.
... Let's start on the WebVTT and mapping topics at around
11:30 on the Friday and continue it after lunch.
glenn: We can be flexible on the
lunch schedule because I'm not ordering any lunches - there
are
... lots of eating opportunities so we can just head out to
somewhere local when we're ready.
nigel: Just for everyone's expectations, does that imply that lunch will be covered?
glenn: I'll pick that up.
nigel: Thank you!
... Are there any specific topics that anyone would like to
have firmly on the agenda and/or
... present on at some point?
glenn: I'll add some items that
are flexible in timing - I'll do that in the next couple of
days.
... They may correlate with the wiki page topics already
added.
... One thing I've been thinking about is background painting
and the extent of backgrounds.
... I'll add an item if necessary.
nigel: There are some topics that
we've planned to discuss for a while, such as the timing.
... Is there anything else?
glenn: I'm going to talk about
the extent and position semantics and pixel aspect ratio.
... I've just implemented these in the TTV verifier and a
presentation engine so I have some direct
... experience - it turns out to be pretty straightforward.
nigel: The agenda isn't closed
yet - there's likely to be more I suspect, possibly some from
me.
... If there are no other specific topics for now then I want
to re-iterate the survey re Sapporo
... and the 2015 TPAC. Thanks to everyone who has already
responded. If you haven't, the survey is
... at: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWGTPAC2015/
tmichel: A couple of months ago I
talked to the staff contact of the interaction domain for
CSS,
... HTML and i18n, and requested them to ask their WGs to
review the WebVTT FPWD. About a
... month later we have received a good set of feedback
comments from i18n. We're still missing
... the other three. A few days ago I pinged again Bert and
Mike. For CSS, Bert has added the
... review request to the next CSS agenda. For HTML Paul Cotton
has followed up on Dave's message.
... So we should be set on those two. For accessibility, I know
plh has pinged Judy again a few days
... ago so I hope to get feedback from them but I can't say
when. I'd like to get the feedback so we
... can move to CR when ready.
... Another issue is how we handle the comments. Currently
they're archived in the CG. So at some
... point we will have to respond to the commenter and get
agreement from them so how are we
... going to track that?
atai: Because the comments are on
the CG bug tracker and the responses are there, should this
be
... delegated to one place so that everyone can see them? I
don't think it makes sense to have a
... separate tracker for that.
tmichel: Okay. At some point we
have to demonstrate wide review to the Director, so are you
saying
... just look into the archive?
atai: So it has to be proved that
there has been a review and that the comments have been
... incorporated into the document?
tmichel: We should have responded
to the comments and got acceptance for whatever action we
... have taken.
atai: Does this need to be a formal list of raised issues and how they've been communicated and dealt with?
tmichel: Yes, at some point we
should have a list of the comments and at least some wording
from
... i18n to say that they're satisfied with each comment. That
would be good enough.
atai: Can this be done in the CG, to ask them to follow a specific procedure to satisfy the process?
tmichel: It's not a problem to have it in the CG. We just need to show the evidence to the Director.
atai: My only question is how we
handle the same spec in parallel in the CG and the WG. Is there
a
... communication with the CG about the complete process?
tmichel: I think the CG chair is
Dave Singer and there's no staff contact. It doesn't matter
who
... does the job of reporting. What we need is at least a basic
document describing the dispositions.
nigel: For IMSC 1 we used the dispositions tracker, but I guess that's not the only way.
tmichel: Agreed. We need at least something.
atai: Is it possible just to have a spreadsheet referencing the bugs?
tmichel: Yes I think that's good enough.
atai: And then link to the bug tracker?
tmichel: Yes that's good enough. You do need the final agreement from i18n.
atai: So we check back with them?
tmichel: Yes
pal: We just went through that with IMSC 1 - why not go through the same process?
tmichel: We certainly can.
atai: I see the problem being
additional overhead. Of course it worked fine. From my
perspective
... we need to check that it's okay for the CG. That's my only
concern.
pal: But there's only a single
consensus group for this work, and it's this group. The other
group
... could be a place for the exchange of ideas, but the formal
place where the work happens is in
... this group if I'm not mistaken.
atai: That's right, but the groups work differently.
pal: But as far as W3C is concerned there's only one group and its this one.
glenn: Agreed. Managing the comms
is the challenge. There have been a lot of cross-postings
... which is useful for allowing everyone to have an input, but
I think the formal decision process
... has to happen here.
atai: Can we agree on this
without Dave Singer being here?
... What would be good would be to have a close cooperation
with the CG.
nigel: There are a number of
people interested in progressing WebVTT who are in both
groups
... so I'd encourage those people to take the lead on this.
Loretta: I think we'd have a hard
time persuading the CG to do the paperwork but any changes
to
... the document do need to be agreed by the CG.
pal: I think by choosing to put
WebVTT on the Rec track that demonstrated a commitment to
follow
... the W3C process so that needs to happen.
nigel: Can I propose that someone
who is a member of the WG takes ownership of the comments
... and documents them, and liaises with the CG to agree all
actions and responses in both groups?
... Can anyone volunteer for that?
Loretta: Can we pick up on this next week?
tmichel: Are you proposing a 'two
tick' system where both the CG and the WG approve every
... response to each comment? As well as the original commenter
e.g. i18n.
nigel: We could do that - I'm not
actually bothered about whether the trail of approval
between
... CG and WG is on the dispositions document or if its managed
separately. But what I do care about
... is that the WG doesn't propose a response that is not
acceptable to the CG.
tmichel: This is fairly new so we don't have much prior example to work from.
nigel: It's a good time to be
creative with ideas!
... If you do have any ideas please bring them to the table
next Friday.
nigel: What is the lead time for dial-in if we want to setup Zakim?
tmichel: I can set up a bridge
just a few minutes beforehand.
... I had an agenda question: the topics list starts with IMSC
1 Implementation Report and Test Suite.
... My understanding is that we're not ready to report on or
test implementations during the F2F.
... Is that right?
nigel: I don't know.
tmichel: Are we expecting anyone to bring along implementations or something similar?
nigel: I don't know. I don't rule out doing so myself! It would certainly be welcome.
tmichel: It would be a great step
forward if people do have implementations to demonstrate.
... That's an invitation!
nigel: I second that. At the moment it's just a topic placeholder.
action-379?
<trackbot> action-379 -- Nigel Megitt to Obtain png images for #linepadding and #multirowalign test cases. -- due 2015-03-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/379
nigel: I completed this, uploaded
the PNGs and updated the wiki page. Not sure if anyone had a
chance to review it?
... Sorry if I've stepped on your toes there Pierre!
pal: I looked at it and it looked okay to me. I didn't see any problems.
atai: I haven't had a chance to review yet.
nigel: In that case I'll leave this pending review for another week.
action-381?
<trackbot> action-381 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Prepare new list of changes to imsc 1 since cr1. -- due 2015-03-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/381
pal: I sent round a list of the issues and a diff of the html
nigel: Would you be able to stick
the URLs into the W3 diff service and send the link round to
the output?
... It would help make the differences stand out.
pal: Sure, I'm doing it right
now...
... Shall I add this to the previous email?
nigel: That would be good yes.
action-383?
<trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
glenn: I want to push this out to
the end of April.
... I'm going to have to dive deep into the jaxb binding and
xerces implementation, so I'm not sure
... when I'm going to have time to do that.
nigel: Is this a required part of the authoring process?
glenn: Yes, I generate the
bindings whenever I change the schemas.
... This isn't a blocking issue, and anyone using the schemas
is free to add the declaration.
... It might be useful if I add a comment in the schema file to
explain why its missing.
... None of the tools I'm using seem to have a problem with the
missing declaration, and technically
... speaking XML doesn't require it. It looks like the reporter
uses a tool that does want the XML
... declaration.
nigel: I see you've already set the date to April 30th on that issue.
nigel: There's one raised issue, which I mentioned last week.
issue-380?
<trackbot> issue-380 -- The width of content elements' areas is unclear, especially looking at the examples -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/380
nigel: I guess this is what you were referring to for discussion next week Glenn?
glenn: I've been thinking about
ways to allow the background of a content area to be fitted to
the
... text content, using a similar approach to what we adopted
for textAlign, using an inline block and
... applying the background colour to the containing regions
content rectangles only. That might
... achieve the right result. I'm going to experiment with CSS
and see if we can handle it that way.
reopen issue-380
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-380.
nigel: There are 4 pending review issues on IMSC 1, which I'd like to close if we can.
issue-367?
<trackbot> issue-367 -- Clarify initial value override for tts:textAlign -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/367
issue-375?
<trackbot> issue-375 -- Use of the ebutts:linePadding and ebutts:multiRowAlign in IMSC 1 -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/375
issue-377?
<trackbot> issue-377 -- Use TTML 1SE rounding rules -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/377
issue-378?
<trackbot> issue-378 -- Relax constraints on ttp:frameRate and related video object -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/378
atai: I've reviewed issue-375 and
the changes are fine with me. On the informative note I
proposed
... to delete it because in the block where the application of
the features is described, it says they
... can be specified on style, region, body, div and p because
IMSC allows inline styling and EBU-TT-D
... does not. In the note further down it says EBU-TT-D allows
linePadding and multiRowAlign only
... as children of the style element. Although this is all
true, I misread it and possibly others would,
... to think that because EBU-TT-D is the core reference both
attributes can only be applied to the
... style element. Either we can omit the note or tweak the
wording to be more in line with what is
... said above. I made the proposal in the issue.
close issue-367
<trackbot> Closed issue-367.
close issue-377
<trackbot> Closed issue-377.
close issue-378
<trackbot> Closed issue-378.
nigel: We're out of time now, so
I'll adjourn the meeting. See everyone who can be there in
person
... next week, 9am on Thursday, Las Vegas time! [adjourns
meeting]