Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

12 Feb 2015

See also: IRC log


nigel, jdsmith, glenn, tmichel
frans, pal


<trackbot> Date: 12 February 2015

<scribe> scribeNick: nigel

This meeting

nigel: summarises agenda. AOB?

group: no AOB

nigel: Since we're around a week later than previously expected in publishing the TTML2 FPWD
... I've dropped the dates back by a week on the publication timeline.

glenn: Realistically I don't think we'll hit the 5th March date for any additional edits deferred from
... the FPWD.

nigel: Okay, the current timeline is "at risk" right now for resourcing reasons.

tmichel: The FPWD should be published later today. The document has been redated to Feb 12.
... Other than that it's the same. Unfortunately, next time we have to send to the webmaster we
... have to send it 3 days in advance. On the day is too late.

Action Items

nigel: I'll come back to Action-369 later because it's really about issues.


<trackbot> action-370 -- Nigel Megitt to Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria -- due 2015-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/370

action-370: Mike has responded and included the requested material.

<trackbot> Notes added to action-370 Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria.

close action-370

<trackbot> Closed action-370.

<scribe> ACTION: pal Consider how to process and make available the DECE test criteria provided [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Consider how to process and make available the dece test criteria provided [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2015-02-19].


<trackbot> action-371 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a meeting page on the wiki for the f2f -- due 2015-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/371

nigel: Thierry kindly did this. The page is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015

close action-371

<trackbot> Closed action-371.


<trackbot> action-372 -- Nigel Megitt to Review requirements conformance in Annex L of TTML2 -- due 2015-02-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/372

nigel: I raised this in the week because I noticed that Annex L needs to be updated. I've done
... a first pass analysis but not sure where to take it from there - anyone else want to take it on?

glenn: Thanks for doing that - it looks good at a high level. When I get to the point of doing the
... update I'll focus on the current analysis and comment at that time if there's any difference of
... opinion.

close action-372

<trackbot> Closed action-372.

nigel: I've just raised issue-370 to implement the changes indicated by the analysis in Action-372.

reopen issue-370

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-370.

nigel: Related to this is Issue-369 which also includes an edit to that section


<trackbot> issue-369 -- The R### numbers in Annex L are not all correct -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/369

reopen issue-369

<trackbot> Re-opened issue-369.


glenn: I've got a proposal for Harrah's on the 9th and 10th which I think will be okay, and am
... getting an alternate quote. I think we'll succeed in this.
... I'll look to wrap this up by the end of today so we can confirm.

tmichel: Usually the F2F meeting dates and locations should be defined 8 weeks in advance.

jdsmith: We're 8 weeks exactly from 9th April today.

tmichel: If someone is unhappy with the schedule they could veto if there's less than 8 weeks notice.

<scribe> ACTION: glenn confirm F2F location and update wiki and send details to the reflector. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Confirm f2f location and update wiki and send details to the reflector. [on Glenn Adams - due 2015-02-19].

<inserted> nigel: To meet the 8 week notice period Action-374 needs to be completed today.

Change Proposals

nigel: I just want to note that we had some CPs that were marked as needing to be done before
... FPWD but they weren't fully completed - however we did discuss them and considered that
... they were complete enough to proceed with FPWD albeit requiring further work.
... So I reassigned all of them to Priority 2 instead.

glenn: Fine with me - I was going to suggest the same.



<trackbot> action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369

nigel: Pierre suggested this action. In doing it I had some queries and also noted that we have
... a clear disposition and completion on the issues for most of the requests from SMPTE.
... The first query is on Ruby annotations. I'm not clear if we've fully or only partially met the request.

glenn: I can only assert that I think I've met the requirements. It's up to the requestor to identify
... if that's not the case.


glenn: On the Ruby, we do have position before and after, and also a third option "around", which
... came up when analysing Japanese usage for 2-line captions - Ruby on 1st line is "before" and
... on 2nd line is "after". I don't know about >2 lines so I adopted all-but-last line: "before".
... The offset is not constrained to -1em. It could go to -infinity. So both of those points are met.

nigel: The second query is whether or not mixed vertical-horizontal progression direction
... requires the use of tts:textOrientation?

glenn: It does not requires the use of tts:textOrientation, but it may take it into account in
... producing the result.

nigel: So with horizontal in vertical you don't have to fix up the orientation of the horizontal,
... it happens automatically?

glenn: That's correct.
... There was some discussion about the em square, because the examples from SMPTE show
... a horizontal segment that extends outside of the bounds of the line area. I pointed out to Pierre
... that the language re formatting is rather vague and its implementation dependent how it
... reduces the font size or changes the line height to make it fit. I'm sure Pierre will want to
... express a view on this at some point.

nigel: Thanks, I think I'm clear on the disposition now.

glenn: Your question is interesting though - let's say that there's a span with tts:textOrientation of
... sideways and a tts:textCombine, would that say to the client, "don't attempt to lay it out horizontally"?
... That would sort of counter-act the request for the textCombine. That's an interesting open
... question - I don't even know if the CSS folks have thought of that point.
... It wouldn't hurt for us to liaise with them at the right point, after we've worked out what
... we think it should do on this point. For example, I raised the Ruby offset property with them
... and they're starting to address that point but they're doing it in a different way than I would
... have expected. They want to use the relative positioning mechanism that's already in CSS to
... handle that. I'm leaving ruby offset in as we've specced it.

nigel: Thanks for that! I don't think we're quorate to close Pending Review issues now. Anything
... else on the above before I adjourn?

glenn: I think the draft dispositions is good as it will help us respond.

nigel: Team effort - Pierre suggested it, I did it, you clarified the answers!

<tmichel> Bye

nigel: Thanks everyone - meet again same time next week. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: glenn confirm F2F location and update wiki and send details to the reflector. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: pal Consider how to process and make available the DECE test criteria provided [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015-02-12 16:12:36 $