See also: IRC log
<clapierre> Ivan, can you post a link to that KEG document please.
judy: curious how much background ivan and charles have in the *cag techniques
clapierre: not much
<scribe> scribenick: ivan
judy: deborah you may be fairly familiar
... a bit of an overview would be good
... deborah, what would be good is to have a clear goal of the meeting
... the question is what could be done jointly for the dpub ig tf on
a11y
dkaplan3_: looking at the various *cag stuff
... digital publishing is a subset of what is needed
... it is also special
... looking at the documents, let us make sure that all the requirements
of the dpub are addressed
Judy: my guess is that something will be
covered well, and we may have a broad range of special cases
... we may want to use some examples from that community
... for example the longdesc attr. discussion is particularly important
use cases
... which will be solved
... and there are a number of cases for that
... there is a number of use cases that we are promoting
MichaelC: we have two threads/tf-s to enhance the role and the other one is looking at guides
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwbp-wcag/
MichaelC: the mobile accessibility is a good
example
... the relationship between the mobile web best practices and wai
... that may be a good example to work
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/
MichaelC: the mobile accessiblity tf extends
it developing more concrete guideliles
... they determined that most issues are covered by wcag, but the
emphasis is different and they try to document taht
... they also go through wcag techniques and possibly define new
techniques
... or showing how a specific technique is good for mobile device
... we may have a particular slice throught the techniques
<clapierre> Found this WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/
MichaelC: I can cover what we have for wcag
... there are 5-600 techniques, organized by technologies
... we also have general techniques, technology independent
... there are are also failure techniques
... regardless of what you have done you may have created a problems
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria.html#ARIA1
MichaelC: if you go into one technique
... it shows what wcag it references and applicability
... sometimes it is more specific
... we coud use dpub as a filter, or even deeper (education or not)
... the description of the techniques is basic, "this is what you should
do" plus examples
... plus test procedures, they are dry and not backed up by test files
:-(
... we could do the same for dpub
... requirements coming from your work could impact that
deborah: we could put an example saying if
you want to this for dpub, this is the way to do it
... there is nothing here for user agents
MichaelC: the specific issues for user agent
are not covered by these techniques
... that is a separate work
... for dpub you may have some very dpub specific techniques (using
chapters, etc)
... but lot of techniques may be relevant to dpub as well
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/
judy: for uaag the document is structured in
a similar way on a high level
... browsers, players, etc, make them accessible for assistive
technologies
... tehre are different developers' needs
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131107/
judy: we developed implementation information, it will be renamed "implementation reference"
(we will have a new version next week)
scribe: MichaelC mentioned the separate mobile a11y examples
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile
scribe: that was produced to make people
understand how relevant this is for the mobile environment
... we flag and ahve a discrete view particular to mobile
... that is one of the ways of organizing a particular technology
... if you were to develop a dpub a11y techniques, you could integrate
those techniques or call them out
... plus special cases
... browsing the mobile case might give you a good examples
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/uaag.php
Judy: in each case we felt we need a
separate overview page
... and then one can get oriented for a particular purpose
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.php
Judy: the atag case is closer to final
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/
Judy: this the guidelines themselves
... this is fairly stable
... if you go to the top of it, it has a similar approach
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20131107/
Judy: more contextual information
... more similar to the uaag
... the mobile a11y tf did not take the straightest path, in the case of
dpub you do not have a proliferation of techniques around
... you might be able to jump in more directly
... talking to the mobile people may save you 6 months or so...
... they are just drafting filling the gaps
dkaplan3_: it seems to be a better way to
follow what they already done
... talking to them at tpac may be a great help
... the local connection (in the boston area) might also be a good thing
to use
... tpac may be so busy that this may become a difficulty
clapierre: I was wondering that we should also look into personalization as a form of a11y, how does that relate
judy: that is a important topic, with a11y
intersection
... particuarly with digital publishing
... eg in eduction you want to have a good profile of the user to get
things right
... the learner profile work : in certain context it is critical to pick
up the learner information and we need different options on how to cover
the accessibiilty issues around
... the Markku Häkkinen (aka Mark) was the person who had given lots of
thought to it
... we have not had too much about it in our documents
... but it would be very relevant in many places
... the DAISY consortium had some guidelines that has been brought into
epub2/3
... I do not think it is the same it as our guides
... we should do first is you guys look at these documents
... and then we should talk again to see what is an achievable target
<dkaplan3_> http://www.daisy.org/
dkaplan3_: clapierre and I are relative newcomers in this W3C work,
<Judy> ivan: [jb filling in from above] interesting to hear all of the different WAI work... need to think of how to proceed...
judy: my guess is that the mobile people are
not out of the woods yet, the person whom to talk the best would be
Jeanne Spellman, from W3C
... the mobile people just sent a document for review
... Jeanne has just mentioned something to me
MichaelC: they are the beginning stages, learning the way to do
Judy: how hard would it be for the wcag wg to describe what makes good techniques
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions
MichaelC: we have already done that, but we
have a real issue; we know we want to do a better version
... I cannot say when, working with you guys would actually help
judy: it is a good start
... i hope if the mobile people were invited to comment on this; this
would be really good for dpub
MichaelC: we have not explicitly invite them
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Writing_WCAG_Techniques_-_Notes
Judy: with the understanding that this may change, that document might be helpful (may be adapted for dpub); actually if it does not work, we would like to know why...
<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_Resources
Judy: next steps, my suggestion wojuld be
read through some of the stuffs above
... I would suggest to make advantage of the f2f possibilities ahead of
tpac
... try to get deborah, jeanne, kathy, kim and myself in the same room
... we can then talk about all this at tpac, too
clapierre: that sounds good
... i can join by skype from the bay area
... i am pretty much open at tpac, i am planning at being there for the
whole week
dkaplan3_: this sounds great
... a f2f time is very valuable
... i hope clapierre is fine if i drive it here for the local f2f
meeting
Judy: a physical conversation and a roadmap looks like a good next step