Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 09 Dec 2013

<trackbot> Date: 09 December 2013

<astearns> Will be late driving boy into school

<dshkolnik> Dmitry Shkolnik is on the phone too

<mgylling> scribe: TomDN

mgylling: Asks Phil to introduce himself

Hachette: I am the director of publishing standard for Phil_Madans book group
... interested in metadata, and joined the taskforce because of this

mgylling: You are warmly welcome!

CSS Shapes review - status

mgylling: We have an outstanding request to review CSS Shapes

<Bill_Kasdorf> Technically Hachette Book Group (HBG)

mgylling: Is there anyone on the call who would like to volunteer for this?

dave: I can take a look, but best effort

azaroth: I had a look at it. Looks great. Happy to talk about it

<Bert> Bert's mail about css-shapes

mgylling: please post findings to the list by Monday the 16th

This weeks focus theme: accessibility task force

mgylling: Last week we decided to have TF leads present some things for discussion for their own topic, to allow task forces to have an hour of quality discussion in their field
... We will probably internally review this somewhere mid January.
... This week: Accessibility

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Accessibility

Suzanne: Let;s take a look at some of the data
... http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Accessibility is the TF's main page
... if you are interested in joining, please sign up there

-TomDN

-q

tzviya: Don't know how my name got on there.

Suzanne: No problem, we can take you off
... Our primary output document is the Use Cases

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Accessibility_and_Personalization

Suzanne: We have a category on WCAG 2.0 & Education Environment / Educational Publishing
... also on Pre-School through Middle School
... For example: a child might need to ask an application for more time, but might not know exactly how much time

<Suzanne> Thea Eaton

<Suzanne> DoodleDoo

Suzanne: going through the categories
... Specialized Subject Areas (e.g. Chemistry, Grammar, Poetry)
... What do we need in the standard for these? Especially for visual impairments
... Next one is Allowing Versions
... ideally it would be the same W3C mechanism to make them possible
...
... One example might be different math pronunciations
... section on General Accessibility Use Cases has a bit of everything in there

gcapiel: One of the version use cases we have is crowdsourced based post-production
... e.g. A parent, expert, etc. could make additions after publication

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/SVGCrowdDesc

gcapiel: e.g., alternate descriptions to images
... won't go into too much detail here
... Probably going to come some use cases out of the EDUPUB workshops
... and Interactive Widgets group

Suzanne: Can you add the link?

gcapiel: Will do (or Marcus)
... Another example is MathML inside of SVG

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/MathSVGA11y

gcapiel: They would at least show the graphical representation, and then the MathML underneath

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/MathSonifyA11y

gcapiel: There's some examples under the references on the wiki

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/SVGStructDesc

gcapiel: Other work on adding HTML to SVG

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/SVGMediaQueriesA11y

gcapiel: Also something like Media Queries for stylesheets, but then for SVG
... The idea is that one SVG file would have multiple modalities

<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/SVGReuse

gcapiel: We also want to make it easier to use SVG across documents
... The whole idea is to better support the portability of image description
... We also need to think about best practices around the recent schema.org adaptibility metadata
... plus all the other things that we haven't addressed

mgylling: Thank you.

Bill_Kasdorf: Amazing amount of content and detail
... It's going to be important to keep in mind which of these are OWP issues and which are actually reading system implementation issues
... When I say reading system I include assisting technology in this
... for example the multiple languages for Math

Suzanne: Indeed something we need to talk about.
... but the /tagging/ definitly seems something for W3C

gcapiel: Not sure how quickly those problems will be solved. Which is why we are looking for things to solve them today.
... Good point about the languages
... also something to consider when doing alternative descriptions for images
... Maybe describedat could be used for the languages?

Bill_Kasdorf: We must be careful to not bypass the natural accessibility of MathML

Suzanne: Good point. You would have a library for 4th grade math, 5th grade math, ....

mgylling: So there are multiple questions here to be answered
... First is: how do you include the content?

<gcapiel> aria-describedat https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/describedat.html

mgylling: second is query. how does the reader get to the right branch?

<mgylling> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-context.html

mgylling: so 1: "how do you author the content?", 2: "how do you query it?"
... One of the observations is that math languages might be considered a personalisation issue

Suzanne: You could change allowing versions to personalisation
... There's just some of the use cases that don't fit under that
... Will look into dividing them up

mgylling: Suzanne, you know a lot about APIP

<gcapiel> IDPF interactive widgets work: https://github.com/idpf/widgets

mgylling: Could you work on some clear examples/use cases for it? It's not clear for a lot of people

<Bill_Kasdorf> could someone put a clear reference to what Markus is talking about on the IRC?

<Bill_Kasdorf> Plus a link, please

mgylling: just describe some scenarios where APIP would be the solution

Suzanne: will provide some examples

ivan: coming back to the MathML issue.
... Must disagree with Bill
... MathML as it is used, is not language-agnostic (presentation mathML)

<ivan> MathML in arabic context

<gcapiel> http://www.imsglobal.org/apip/

ivan: e.g., MathML in arabic context. Includes examples of similar formulae in different languages
... language-dependent stuff in presentation mathML is put in verbatim

<gcapiel> indie UI user preferences: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-context.html

ivan: content MathML is extremely underused

gcapiel: It is used, for semantics

Bill_Kasdorf: Also in the browser?

gcapiel: Yes, the semantics part. Seems to be language-agnostic.

Ivan: But what about e.g. if-then constructs? They are not the same in some languages

gcapiel: that is text, but that cannot be evaluated automatically. The semantic part can, and there is no text in there

tzviya: Another example: it's also based on culture
... e.g. difference in cultural lingo

gcapiel: We should probably look into EPUB overlays, APIP, ...

LauraFowler: More than happy to work on some of the use cases

mgylling: Question for Laura in terms of next steps: Could you contribute a use case on semantics of ?

LauraFowler: sure

Suzanne: do you have an example of what's currently missing for assessments?

LauraFowler: Some came up at EDUPUB, and we will look into providing those in the course of this week

mgylling: We'll need to provide an appropriate slot on the wiki
... Next activities for Accessibility TF?

Suzanne: Still entering use cases for another couple of weeks
... then a few meetings with key participants
... Might need some type of proposal towards solution, even though that's not our main task
... with some technical details. Especially for layers, versions, ...

mgylling: Building flowcharts and such is always welcome
... Are there more placeholders coming to the wiki page from you?

Suzanne: Not much more, other than details
... the basic things have been mentioned on the call, or on the wiki

gcapiel: There's a lot of stuff that got started, that needs more detail underneath it

mgylling: Question to the group: Are there any specialists/experts that we need to bring to the table?

Suzanne: We need more input for K12 and Math

ivan: there's an overlay to the TF of Jean in that sense

Next weeks theme

mgylling: Who want to go next week?
... Suggestion: Rob

Rob: sure. Would be good that the Annotation TF is bigger than it's current size by then (1 member)
... especially publishers. Of course others also welcome

mgylling: I would like to volunteer to read through it all
... anyone else?

ivan: Question which might help people decide: ATM there are 3 places where annotation is being discussed: Rob's group, IDPF, and this TF
... Curious as to how these overlap/work together/ ...

<liza> I get "the conference is restricted" on the phone

?: Comment: I know it's a very busy period for publishers. Maybe in January there will be more feedback

<liza> Whoops, timezones

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

09 Dec 2013

Attendees

Contents

CSS Shapes review - status

This weeks focus theme: accessibility task force

Next weeks theme

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output