Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

18 Oct 2012

See also: IRC log


Courtney, Pierre, Mike Jordan, Sean, Plh, Glenn, Andreas, Monica
<scribe> Sean Hayes


<trackbot> Date: 18 October 2012

TTML Agenda

TTML Agenda for 18/10/12 our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change. Please check http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=18&year=2012&h our=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43 Thursdays 15:00-15:00 UTC (10:00am-11:00am Boston local) Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 8865 ("TTML") IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #tt Web gateway to :http[CUT]

Agenda Chair: Sean Hayes Agenda+ Assign Scribe Agenda+ actions and issues on SDP: Agenda+ actions and issues on Second edition: [1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html Reference Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker Profile draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us Change proposals: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001 http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/c[CUT]

Andreas, courtney, glenn, mijordan, pal, sean, mmartin3

Agenda (see above0

c/(see above)

Issues and Agendas




<trackbot> ISSUE-182 -- Allow more than one profile to be used in the SDP-US. Add use of ttp:profile element. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/182


Updated proposal

Action Monica Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182. [on Monica Martin - due 2012-10-25].


<trackbot> ISSUE-180 -- regions relative to the root container -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/180

<glenn> +Present - irc only

Proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0033.html

Change from: No more than four lines of text must be selected into all active regions at any given time. Change to: No more than four visible lines of text must be selected into all active regions.

<scribe> New requirement: Origin and extent of a region MUST be authored not to extend outside of the root container.

Resolution: Approve changes.

<glenn> i assume this is SDP-US only, not TTML in general, yes?

Close Action-105

<trackbot> ACTION-105 Propose requirement to constrain to the root container in SDP-US (see Action-104 and Issue-180). closed

Yes, only SDP.

<Sean> Yes

<glenn> ok, no objection then

Action Glenn To implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].


<trackbot> ISSUE-192 -- R0041 doesn't allow for EBT-TT conversion easily. Revise R0041 to a SHOULD. -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/192

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0030.html

Sean: Mike Dolan had raised questions.
... Andreas, can you explain for EBU-TT?

Andreas: Usually have 36-37 characters per line.

Problem for European subtitles.

Sean: Limit to 128 visible characters?

Andreas: To get quality and circulate US, don't split to more lines than originally displayed.

Sean: What happens if you use captions in US?

Andreas: Seems so yes.

Sean: Use 36-38?

Andreas: Will check.

Sean: May increase visible number of characters per line = 38. If US content, 32.

mijordan: CEA-608 is the same.

Sean: Leave as a SHALL..

mmartin3: Regulation talks to 4:3 and 16:9 for 1/32 and 1/42 respectively.

mijordan: Dolan didn't account for other aspect ratios for cinema or full-format movies.

Sean: Leave to default aspect ratio of root container.
... SHALL for 38, is only for 4:3 aspect ratio content only. Or to total visible characters?
... What does EBU do?

Andreas: 38 is for 4:3 only. No other limitations.

Sean: If you did 16:9 how many would you use?

Andreas: Exchange and use SDL, limited by teletext

Sean: Retain SHALL only for 4:3 aspect ratio of the default grid. Others, limit total character limit.

mmartin3: Make note to accommodate EBU teletext.

Leave open. Monica will update.


<trackbot> ISSUE-191 -- Textoutline doesn't handle specific edge types outlined in R0037. Need to revise requirement and specify in Future Needs sections. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/191

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0031.html

mmartin3: Consistent with comments from SMPTE.

Sean: User agent feature?

mmartin3: Yes.

Sean: Agree with SHOULD.

mijordan: CEA-708 has those styles.

Sean: Create issue for v.next.

Action mijordan Work on new issue for v.next or to address SMPTE questions for region, border and anchor-point. Need to ensure character edge is part of that user agent feature.

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find mijordan. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

courtney: FCC supported in content?


(7) Character edge attributes. All apparatus shall implement captioning such that character edge attributes may be displayed and users are provided the ability to select character edge attributes including: no edge attribute, raised edges, depressed edges, uniform edges, and drop shadowed edges.

scribe: Greater issue than SDP-US.

Sean: Add to Second Edition?

Add to action - what we need to support in TTML (SDP-US).

<glenn> some of these may be accomplished by the currently defined tts:textOutline property, but some cannot without modifying that property

<glenn> i think it would be good to describe how to use this property to achieve these "named" "edge" characteristics

mijordan: Need mechanism for offsetting.

Sean: v.next

<glenn> textOutline allows specifying offset of outline (shadow) already

Leave open.

<glenn> scratch my prior, mjordan is correct


<trackbot> ISSUE-190 -- Background vs Window Color -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/190

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html

<glenn> probably need both offset (x,y) and also multiple outlines (shadows) to apply to achieve desired effects

courtney: Agree.

Sean: Put in SDP.

Resolved to use example in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.

Action Glenn Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].

Close Issue-190

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 Background vs Window Color closed


<trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- do regions scroll their flowed content? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/189

<Sean> Glenn We will go back to the outlie styles next week

<glenn> ok

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

Example + add feature displayAlign

Mike Dolan commented http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

<glenn> we should think about deprecating tts:textOutline, and just introduce new tts:textShadow based on CSS3 Text spec definition

Sean: Previous example didn't show the region.
... Example is actually roll-up and paint-on.

Mike's example is only roll-up.

scribe: Explains the examples and the differences.

mmartin3: Do we explain more?

Sean: Example with elaboration over time.
... Add lines coming in at the bottom and going out at the top.
... Use Mike's example. Add pictures for SDP-US.

Leave open.

No other issues ready for today.



<trackbot> ACTION-89 -- Glenn Adams to add TTML 1.0 Second Edition reference. -- due 2012-09-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/89

mmartin3: Explains references - TTML 1.0 Normative and TTML 1.0 SE as informative. Put in document placeholder manually.

Sean: Preamble text to SE which is emerging.

mmartin3: Work on an updated proposal then for Action-109.
... c/109/89

<Sean> preamble text to the reference to indicate the most recently published version should take precedence

<glenn> any body going to TPAC? i'll be there if anyone wishes to pow wow about TTML

All other actions are related to issues we discussed today.


<trackbot> ISSUE-188 -- Bounding SDP-US rendering complexity -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/188

<Sean> only Philippe

No time to discuss.

trackbpt, end meeting

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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