See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
<scribe> scribenick: ChrisL
<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
krit: main differnce is syntax
between svg and css, proposed an extended parser algorithm to
deal with both
... erik was in support
shepazu: could yousummarise how it could be integrated and what the changes are?
krit: we allow more spaces instead of commas, for example
<ed> http://www.w3.org/mid/8996DBAE-9FE2-44D6-9B9B-B0E4CC05A7E6@adobe.com <-- that's the proposal
krit: also rotate with three
arguments with a coordinate. css does not support this they
worry about conflict with existing html/css
implementations
... boris suggested that only svg would allow the three
arguments
shepazu: so for css transforms you specify a transform origin
krit: no, it affects the whole stack
ChrisL: so you need to translate, rotate, and translate back
shepazu: talking to css conent creators, they were frustrated at the lack of transform origin for a particular transform
krit: yes but in a list how would
you do that
... would need a transform-origin list and it would need to be
the same length
shepazu: so the transform origin is different for svg elements
krit: some images in current spec show how these work together
Tav: could use more examples
krit: does not make sense to
publish 3d without 2d so we should continue with the merged
spec
... no blocking issues from svg
shepazu: so current plan of action is to move forward on joint 2d and 3d transforms
krit: 3 point rotate might not be
needed for html. parser issues are now dealt with
... so want a resolution on the parser syntax
ChrisL: it looked good to me
(general agreement)
resolution: adopt dirks' svg parser proposal for transform syntax in svg
shepazu: after that is
incorporated, we should publish to /TR
... change of shortname means its a fpwd despite being
published previously
... so sotd needs to explain relationship to previous
spec
... svg 2d transforms, css 2d transforms (both already
published).
... so push current spec to fpwd than modify in place the other
two with obseletion notices
... so i propse we resolve to do that
<ed> s/current spec/current spec - http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
krit: at CSS WG meeting yesterday it was clear that everyone wanted to push forward the merged specification and go to last call on it quickly
shepazu: yes, so it needs to go to fpwd
resolution: svgwg agees to publish the css3 merged transform spec as fpwd
shepazu: we should devote a
significant amount of css and svg telcons to getting this out
the door
... if there are issues, lets solve them
tav: status of 3d impl for svg?
(not yet)
ChrisL: can still write tests
shepazu: spec is well enough written that its clear how to write tests
tav: there are some unclear places
shepazu: test help there too
<scribe> ACTION: erik to inform css wg of our resolution and asking them to resolve likewise [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3238 - Inform css wg of our resolution and asking them to resolve likewise [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-23].
ChrisL: spec has boilerplate autogenerated so it only mentins css wg not svg wg. an oversight I am sure
shepazu: comments should go to fxtf
cyril: don't want to read all of www-style to get the comments
shepazu: its easy to follow a link to join a mailing list, for people interested.
krit: css3-transforms keyword in subject
cyril: but people are not consistent
shepazu: mailto link can contain the subject "[css3-transforms]"
ed: no-one from microsoft
here
... pinged them but no response
cyril: we can't wait for them for ever
krit: spec needs an editor
ed: we could merge into
svg2
... if we dont have a main editor for a smaller draft then its
faster to merge
krit: can't edit at the moment due to other commitments
ChrisL: earlier draft had a lot of motivational material and rationale which is not needed now we have decided, though it was useful early on
krit: it should be a module because the css transforms spec can reference it later
cyril: ask Brian as he is working
on the web animation module
... he has worked on common model and syntax and we resolved
that in Sydney
rik: myself, brian, shane from
google and alex danilo are working on this. couple of meetings
an hour
... wiki pages on w3.org for it
ed: so we still want a separate
module or to put it in svg2?
... or make it a separate chapter?
ChrisL: no opinion either way, just want it to get done
ed: in fx or in svg?
ChrisL: unclear
ed: i have an action to make a
draft, was expecting to hand it over to patrick. makes sense to
have someone from Microsoft as the main editor
... think the spec fits better in svg as its all about svg
properties
ChrisL: surely if a 1.1 attr is an svg2 property then the description needs to be updated
krit: we have some peoperty names, need to be sure the property type is the same as the datatype
ed: so for general principle, we still need to resolve some issues like dom animval. wait for feedback from our developers on that
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
ed: order of stylesheets etc
krit: graphic is wrong, will republish this evening
ed: prefer to wait until we get feedback
krit: also getting feedback on impact on mozilla, webkit, microsoft on impact on current implementations. erik your comment is missing
ed: wil have feedback from dev
team by next week
... anything else on this topic?
cabanier: the color-interpolation-filters could wait until next week, after getting more feedback
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0070.html
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
ed: so if you own a feature you edit it, main editors czan edit the whole document
cyril: seems to say if you dont
own a feature you can't edit it
... also good to annotate who owns which bit so its clear who
to contact
ChrisL: proposal is inconsistent on substantive changes made 'unilaterally' by the editors
tav: so i made changes in radial gradients related to border focus point. under this i would have to find the feature owner and ask them to do it
cyril: well, you would be the owner in that case
krit: can there be more than one owner of a section
ed: over time I'm sure there will be overlap
Tav: strict rules good at the end but slow us down at the start
krit; so the main editors are guardians on whether a change should be rolled out
ed: good to have someone to drive a feature and good to have some main editors, tav has played that role.
krit: editorship can change, too
ed; prefer to have heycam to explain the rationale a bit more
(krit leaves)
<cyril> s/amin/main/
cyril: lets revisit when cameron is here
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012
ed: pleae register
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/agenda_proposals <-- you know what to do :)
ChrisL: not got flights (or travel authorisation) worked out yet. i see hotels are filling up though
<vhardy_> Kind reminder to book your hotel. As mentioned on email, we only have holds for a few more days.
ed: arriving same day as brian, staying at clipper
cyril: as will i
<vhardy_> vhardy: I will stay at the East
ChrisL: unclear on date and length of joint meeting
ed: its the 9th, morning at least
cyril: not enough for transforms, animations ....
<vhardy_> vhardy: could make it the whole day?
ed: need writeupsd and prep for those topics
+1 for whole day
ed: plan to have updated filters
spec
... will confirm with css chairs about ful day
<scribe> ACTION: erik to check with css chairs that a full day joint meeting is okay [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3239 - Check with css chairs that a full day joint meeting is okay [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-23].
ed: are there enough here to fo more svg2 requirements?
cyril: some of them are
easy.
... lets do the xml events
ChrisL: is this progress events that j-c duford was editing? does it conflict with html5 progress events/
cyril: use case is download progress bar
ChrisL: agree on requirement but prefer the html5 solution
cyril; ok for me
http://tiffanybbrown.com/2010/07/05/the-html5-video-progress-event/
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-element
cyril: looks to be much the same as the svg one. no brainer, adopt theirs
resolved: accept progress events requirement and adopt html5 method for this
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#The_SVGTimer_event
topic; svg timer event
ed: think we should drop it. no sense to have an svg specific interface for timers
cyril; is there an html5 equivalent or are people using settimeout
ed; or request animation frame
cyril: can do declarative
animation and look at the repeat event also
... fine with dropping it
resolution svg2 will not have the svg timer event
+1
ed: reference dom3 evvents for thsi
ChrisL: is i in dom3 - about to be dropped?
ed: no
... but we need to have the event
resolved: svg2 will support the mousewheel event as defined in the DOM specifications
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#svgudom-events__MouseWheelEvent
(we look for links)
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#interact-PointerEventsProperty
some stuff on hit testing of text
ed: and bounding box value
... should port over
reolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
resolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
ChrisL; drop the entire feature
resolution: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
ed: no need for xml events. could make a seperate module but prefer the existing on-* attrs
cyril: it was a good thing, too
bad it was not adopted
... what other declarative wat to create or monitor
events?
... animations plus script
cyril; and can register a dom listener in script
scribe: ok to not support it
resolution: svg2 will not support xml events
ed: reference restrictions good,
needs tweak for svg2 features
... different restrictions in 1.1 and 1.2T
ChrisL: Processing External References is good clarifying text
uses more up to date language than the sloppy language in 1.1
ed: yes
... again not exactly but a section like that
resolution: svg2 will adopt the improved wording on Processing External References and Reference Restrictions
ed: needs more work for external references
(adjourned)
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/current spec/current spec - http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ Succeeded: s/ro/to/ Succeeded: s/the subject/the subject "[css3-transforms]"/ Succeeded: s/shin/shane/ Succeeded: s/myself, brian/myself, brian,/ Succeeded: s/redial/radial/ Succeeded: s/ed; sure we will overlap/ed: over time I'm sure there will be overlap/ Succeeded: s/amin/main/ FAILED: s/amin/main/ Succeeded: s/9or/(or/ Found ScribeNick: ChrisL Inferring Scribes: ChrisL Default Present: Doug_Schepers, krit, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, Tav, cyril, cabanier, [Microsoft] Present: Doug_Schepers krit [IPcaller] ed ChrisL Tav cyril cabanier [Microsoft] Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0071.html Found Date: 16 Feb 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html People with action items: erik[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]