19:57:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:57:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-irc
19:57:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:57:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
19:57:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:57:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
19:57:34 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:57:34 <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
20:00:15 <krit> krit has joined #svg
20:00:31 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has now started
20:00:38 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
20:01:56 <Zakim> +krit
20:02:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:02:37 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:02:37 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:02:49 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:04:38 <Zakim> +Tav
20:04:44 <karl> karl has joined #svg
20:05:32 <ed> chair: ed
20:05:39 <ed> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0071.html
20:05:42 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
20:05:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisL
20:05:53 <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
20:06:10 <ChrisL> topic: transforms
20:06:17 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
20:06:41 <ChrisL> krit: main differnce is syntax between svg and css, proposed an extended parser algorithm to deal with both
20:06:52 <ChrisL> ... erik was in support
20:07:21 <ChrisL> shepazu: could yousummarise how it could be integrated and what the changes are?
20:07:45 <ChrisL> krit: we allow more spaces instead of commas, for example
20:08:15 <ed> http://www.w3.org/mid/8996DBAE-9FE2-44D6-9B9B-B0E4CC05A7E6@adobe.com <-- that's the proposal
20:08:53 <ChrisL> ... also rotate with three arguments with a coordinate. css does not support this they worry about conflict with existing html/css implementations
20:09:31 <ChrisL> ... boris suggested that only svg would allow the three arguments
20:09:43 <Zakim> +cyril
20:09:45 <Zakim> +cabanier
20:09:56 <ChrisL> shepazu: so for css transforms you specify a transform origin
20:10:10 <cyril> cyril has joined #svg
20:10:21 <ChrisL> krit: no, it affects the whole stack
20:10:21 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #svg
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20:10:37 <ChrisL> ChrisL: so you need to translate, rotate, and translate back
20:11:12 <ChrisL> shepazu: talking to css conent creators, they were frustrated at the lack of transform origin for a particular transform
20:11:25 <ChrisL> krit: yes but in a list how would you do that
20:11:47 <ChrisL> ... would need a transform-origin list and it would need to be the same length
20:12:49 <ChrisL> shepazu: so the transform origin is different for svg elements
20:13:01 <cyril> zakim, who is here?
20:13:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, krit, ed, ChrisL, Tav, cyril, cabanier
20:13:10 <cyril> RRSAgent, pointer
20:13:10 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-irc#T20-13-10
20:13:37 <ChrisL> krit: some images in current spec show how these work together
20:13:46 <ChrisL> Tav: could use more examples
20:16:57 <ChrisL> krit: does not make sense to publish 3d without 2d so we should continue with the merged spec
20:17:36 <ChrisL> ... no blocking issues from svg
20:17:59 <ChrisL> shepazu: so current plan of action is to move forward on joint 2d and 3d transforms
20:18:27 <ChrisL> krit: 3 point rotate might not be needed for html. parser issues are now dealt with
20:18:50 <ChrisL> ... so want a resolution on the parser syntax
20:18:58 <ChrisL> ChrisL: it looked good to me
20:19:03 <ChrisL> (general agreement)
20:19:31 <ChrisL> resolution: adopt dirks' svg parser proposal for transform syntax in svg
20:19:59 <ChrisL> shepazu: after that is incorporated, we should publish to /TR
20:20:31 <ChrisL> ... change of shortname means its a fpwd despite being published previously
20:20:49 <ChrisL> ... so sotd needs to explain relationship to previous spec
20:21:10 <ChrisL> ... svg 2d transforms, css 2d transforms (both already published). 
20:21:33 <ChrisL> ... so push current spec to fpwd than modify in place the other two with obseletion notices
20:22:25 <ChrisL> shepazu: so i propse we resolve to do that
20:23:17 <ed> s/current spec/current spec - http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
20:25:37 <ChrisL> krit: at CSS WG meeting yesterday it was clear that everyone wanted to push forward the merged specification and go to last call on it quickly
20:26:05 <ChrisL> shepazu: yes, so it needs to go to fpwd
20:27:43 <ChrisL> resolution: svgwg agees to publish the css3 merged transform spec as fpwd
20:29:10 <ChrisL> shepazu: we should devote a significant amount of css and svg telcons to getting this out the door
20:29:20 <ChrisL> ... if there are issues, lets solve them
20:29:36 <ChrisL> tav: status of 3d impl for svg?
20:29:40 <ChrisL> (not yet)
20:30:05 <ChrisL> ChrisL: can still write tests
20:31:22 <ChrisL> shepazu: spec is well enough written that its clear how to write tests
20:31:31 <ChrisL> tav: there are some unclear places
20:31:38 <ChrisL> shepazu: test help there too
20:32:46 <ChrisL> action: erik to inform css wg of our resolution and asking them to resolve likewise
20:32:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3238 - Inform css wg of our resolution and asking them to resolve likewise [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-23].
20:34:14 <ChrisL> ChrisL: spec has boilerplate autogenerated so it only mentins css wg not svg wg. an oversight I am sure
20:34:34 <ChrisL> shepazu: comments should go to fxtf
20:34:59 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #svg
20:35:13 <ChrisL> cyril: don't want to read all of www-style ro get the comments
20:35:28 <ChrisL> s/ro/to/
20:36:19 <ChrisL> shepazu: its easy to follow a link to join a mailing list, for people interested.
20:36:56 <ChrisL> krit: css3-transforms keyword in subject
20:37:06 <ChrisL> cyril: but people are not consistent
20:37:16 <ChrisL> shepazu: mailto link can contain the subject
20:37:58 <ChrisL> topic: svg attrs to presentation attrs
20:38:09 <ChrisL> ed: no-one from microsoft here
20:38:17 <ChrisL> ... pinged them but no response
20:38:24 <shepazu> s/the subject/the subject "[css3-transforms]"/
20:38:28 <ChrisL> cyril: we can't wait for them for ever
20:38:34 <ChrisL> krit: spec needs an editor
20:38:53 <ChrisL> ed: we could merge into svg2
20:39:43 <ChrisL> ... if we dont have a main editor for a smaller draft then its faster to merge
20:39:57 <ChrisL> krit: can't edit at the moment due to other commitments
20:41:07 <ChrisL> ChrisL: earlier draft had a lot of motivational material and rationale which is not needed now we have decided, though it was useful early on
20:41:24 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shepazu.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:41:30 <ChrisL> krit: it should be a module because the css transforms spec can reference it later
20:41:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html shepazu
20:41:59 <ChrisL> cyril: ask Brian as he is working on the web animation module
20:42:19 <ChrisL> ... he has worked on common model and syntax and we resolved that in Sydney
20:43:10 <ChrisL> rik: myself, brian shin from google and alex danilo are working on this. couple of meetings an hour
20:43:20 <ChrisL> ... wiki pages on w3.org for it
20:43:21 <cyril> s/shin/shane/
20:43:45 <cyril> s/myself, brian/myself, brian,/
20:44:43 <ChrisL> ed: so we still want a separate module or to put it in svg2?
20:45:04 <ChrisL> ... or make it a separate chapter?
20:45:27 <ChrisL> ChrisL: no opinion either way, just want it to get done
20:46:00 <ChrisL> ed: in fx or in svg?
20:46:03 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:46:05 <ChrisL> ChrisL: unclear
20:46:43 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:47:48 <ChrisL> ed: i have an action to make a draft, was expecting to hand it over to patrick. makes sense to have someone from Microsoft as the main editor
20:48:07 <ChrisL> ... think the spec fits better in svg as its all about svg properties
20:49:06 <ChrisL> ChrisL: surely if a 1.1 attr is an svg2 property then the description needs to be updated
20:49:27 <ChrisL> krit: we have some peoperty names, need to be sure the property type is the same as the datatype
20:50:03 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
20:50:14 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: krit (42%), cyril (22%)
20:50:59 <ChrisL> ed: so for general principle, we still need to resolve some issues like dom animval. wait for feedback from our developers on that
20:51:05 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
20:51:21 <ChrisL> ... order of stylesheets etc
20:51:41 <ChrisL> krit: graphic is wrong, will republish this evening
20:52:01 <ChrisL> ed: prefer to wait until we get feedback
20:52:34 <ChrisL> krit: also getting feedback on impact on mozilla, webkit, microsoft on impact on current implementations. erik your comment is missing
20:53:13 <ChrisL> ed: wil have feedback from dev team by next week
20:53:55 <ChrisL> ed: anything else on this topic?
20:55:34 <ChrisL> cabanier: the color-interpolation-filters could wait until next week, after getting more feedback
20:55:42 <ChrisL> topic: process for editing svg2
20:55:48 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0070.html
20:55:52 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
20:56:29 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
20:57:31 <ChrisL> ed: so if you own a feature you edit it, main editors czan edit the whole document
20:57:52 <ChrisL> cyril: seems to say if you dont own a feature you can't edit it
20:58:41 <ChrisL> cyril: also good to annotate who owns which bit so its clear who to contact
21:00:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL: proposal is inconsistent on substantive changes made 'unilaterally' by the editors
21:00:54 <ChrisL> tav: so i made changes in redial gradients related to border focus point. under this i would have to find the feature owner and ask them to do it
21:01:05 <ChrisL> cyril: well, you would be the owner in that case
21:01:18 <ChrisL> krit: can there be more than one owner of a section
21:01:25 <ChrisL> ed; sure we will overlap
21:01:42 <ChrisL> Tav: strict rules good at the end but slow us down at the start
21:01:49 <cyril> s/redial/radial/
21:02:29 <ed> s/ed; sure we will overlap/ed: over time I'm sure there will be overlap
21:02:42 <ChrisL> krit; so the amin editors are guardians on whether a change should be rolled out
21:02:55 <krit> s/amin/main/
21:03:30 <ChrisL> ed: good to have someone to drive a feature and good to have some main editors, tav has played that role.
21:03:46 <ChrisL> krit: editorship can change, too
21:04:09 <ChrisL> ed; prefer to have heycam to explain the rationale a bit more
21:04:50 <Zakim> -krit
21:04:50 <vhardy_> vhardy_ has joined #svg
21:04:52 <ChrisL> (krit leaves)
21:05:20 <Zakim> -Tav
21:05:23 <cyril> s/amin/main/
21:05:25 <ChrisL> cyril: lets revisit when cameron is here
21:05:31 <ChrisL> topic: hamburg f2f
21:05:37 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012
21:05:38 <ChrisL> ed: pleae register
21:06:08 <Zakim> +Tav
21:06:09 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/agenda_proposals <-- you know what to do :)
21:06:25 <ChrisL> ChrisL: not got flights 9or travel authorisation) worked out yet. i see hotels are filling up though
21:06:44 <vhardy_> Kind reminder to book your hotel. As mentioned on email, we only have holds for a few more days.
21:06:51 <ChrisL> ed: arriving same day as brian, staying at clipper
21:06:52 <cyril> s/9or/(or/
21:06:57 <ChrisL> cyril: as will i
21:07:04 <vhardy_> vhardy: I will stay at the East
21:07:56 <ChrisL> ChrisL: unclear on date and length of joint meeting
21:08:06 <ChrisL> ed: its the 9th, morning at least
21:08:23 <ChrisL> cyril: not enough for transforms, animations ....
21:08:39 <vhardy_> vhardy: could make it the whole day?
21:08:49 <ChrisL> ed: need writeupsd and prep for those topics
21:08:58 <ChrisL> +1 for whole day
21:09:06 <ChrisL> ed: plan to have updated filters spec
21:09:35 <ChrisL> ed: will confirm with css chairs about ful day
21:09:59 <ChrisL> action: erik to check with css chairs that a full day joint meeting is okay
21:10:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3239 - Check with css chairs that a full day joint meeting is okay [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-23].
21:10:36 <ChrisL> ed: are there enough here to fo more svg2 requirements?
21:10:44 <ChrisL> topic: svg2 requirements
21:10:51 <vhardy_> vhardy_ has left #svg
21:10:53 <ChrisL> cyril: some of them are easy.
21:11:01 <ChrisL> ... lets do the xml events
21:11:25 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Progress_Events_loadstart.2C_progress.2C_loadend
21:12:09 <Zakim> -cabanier
21:12:24 <ChrisL> ChrisL: is this progress events that j-c duford was editing? does it conflict with html5 progress events/
21:12:34 <ChrisL> cyril: use case is download progress bar
21:13:04 <ChrisL> ChrisL: agree on requirement but prefer the html5 solution
21:13:11 <ChrisL> cyril; ok for me
21:13:45 <cyril> zakim, who is here?
21:13:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see ed, cyril, ChrisL, Tav
21:13:49 <ChrisL> http://tiffanybbrown.com/2010/07/05/the-html5-video-progress-event/
21:13:54 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:14:04 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-element
21:14:44 <ChrisL> cyril: looks to be much the same as the svg one. no brainer, adopt theirs
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21:15:09 <ChrisL> resolved: accept progress events requirement and adopt html5 method for this
21:15:48 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#The_SVGTimer_event
21:15:49 <ChrisL> topic; svg timer event
21:15:53 <cabanier> cabanier has left #svg
21:16:09 <ChrisL> ed: think we should drop it. no sense to have an svg specific interface for timers
21:16:27 <ChrisL> cyril; is there an html5 equivalent or are people using settimeout
21:16:35 <ChrisL> ed; or request animation frame
21:17:05 <ChrisL> cyril: can do declarative animation and look at the repeat event also
21:17:12 <ChrisL> ... fine with dropping it
21:17:26 <ChrisL> resolution svg2 will not have the svg timer event
21:17:48 <ChrisL> topic: The MouseWheel event 
21:18:01 <ChrisL> +1
21:18:07 <cyril> RRSAgent, point
21:18:07 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'point', cyril.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:18:08 <cyril> RRSAgent, pointer
21:18:08 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-irc#T21-18-08
21:18:18 <ChrisL> ed: reference dom3 evvents for thsi
21:18:47 <ChrisL> ChrisL: is i in dom3 - about to be dropped?
21:18:50 <ChrisL> ed: no
21:18:59 <ChrisL> ed: but we need to have the event
21:19:36 <ChrisL> resolved: svg2 will support the mousewheel event as defined in the DOM specifications
21:19:55 <ChrisL> topic: Modified sections for hit testing, event processing
21:20:46 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#svgudom-events__MouseWheelEvent
21:21:06 <ChrisL> (we look for links)
21:21:57 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#interact-PointerEventsProperty
21:22:13 <ChrisL> some stuff on hit testing of text
21:22:26 <ChrisL> ed: and bounding box value
21:22:32 <ChrisL> ... should port over
21:23:20 <ChrisL> reolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
21:23:36 <ChrisL> resolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
21:23:42 <ChrisL> topic: XML Events
21:23:51 <ChrisL> ChrisL; drop the entire feature
21:24:09 <ChrisL> resolution: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and event processing
21:24:37 <ChrisL> ed: no need for xml events. could make a seperate module but prefer the existing on-* attrs
21:24:53 <ChrisL> cyril: it was a good thing, too bad it was not adopted
21:25:22 <ChrisL> ... what other declarative wat to create or monitor events?
21:25:31 <ChrisL> ... animations plus script 
21:26:08 <ChrisL> cyril; and can register a dom listener in script
21:26:14 <ChrisL> ... ok to not support it
21:26:36 <ChrisL> resolution: svg2 will not support xml events
21:27:43 <ChrisL> topic: New Linking features 
21:27:59 <ChrisL> ed: reference restrictions good, needs tweak for svg2 features
21:28:21 <ChrisL> ... different restrictions in 1.1 and 1.2T
21:28:54 <ChrisL> ChrisL: Processing External References is good clarifying text
21:29:13 <ChrisL> uses more up to date language than the sloppy language in 1.1
21:29:17 <ChrisL> ed: yes
21:29:34 <ChrisL> ... again not exactly but a section like that
21:30:13 <ChrisL> resolution: svg2 will adopt the improved wording on Processing External References and Reference Restrictions
21:30:23 <ChrisL> ed: needs more work for external references
21:31:04 <ChrisL> (adjourned)
21:31:14 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
21:31:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Doug_Schepers, krit, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, Tav, cyril, cabanier, [Microsoft]
21:31:22 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:31:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
21:31:26 <Zakim> -ed
21:31:28 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:31:29 <Zakim> -cyril
21:31:32 <Zakim> -Tav
21:31:37 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:31:38 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended
21:31:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, krit, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, Tav, cyril, cabanier, [Microsoft]
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21:55:14 <heycam> ed, sorry I missed the call, I forgot to set my alarm last night ><
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