Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 28 July 2011

Seen
Christine Runnegar, Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, David Corsar, Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti, Graham Klyne, Helena Deus, Ilkay Altintas, James Myers, James McCusker, James Cheney, Jörn Hees, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Reza B'Far, Ryan Golden, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Stephen Cresswell, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Unknown wcandillon, Yogesh Simmhan
Regrets
Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier, James McCusker
Chair
Paul Groth
Scribe
Simon Miles
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB) link
Topics
  1. Action items

    All prior actions, except one ongoing, were considered completed or superceded, so have been closed.

  2. Deadline for issues submission

    Any issues that should be addressed in the drafts should be raised by next Thursday. Issues can be raised after this, but will not be open, and will be dealt with after the first set of issues.

  3. Name suggestions for standard (model/language)

    All should look at the suggested names for the model/language, and add any new suggestions. We will have a poll in next week's telecon.

  4. W3C Privacy Interest Group

    W3C is setting up two privacy-related interest groups, which may be relevant connections for encouraging adoption of the W3C provenance group's standards and/or as an influence on the requirements we have to consider.

  5. Update on provenance access document

    The provenance access document is now in the version control system, some issues have been raised, and resolving them is ongoing.

  6. Provenance ontology

    A draft ontology (OWL file) and accompanying description (HTML document) have been made available. There are currently discrepancies due to unresolved issues with the conceptual model. Someone from RPI will join Satya in editing the document.

  7. Conceptual model

    The conceptual model has been put into the version control and many issues are under discussion. Due to holidays, everyone should aim to raise any new issues by early in the coming week.

  8. BOB

    The BOB (previously 'thing') concept was discussed. It was agreed that there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB). The group was polled on different names for this concept.

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14:51:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-irc

14:51:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:51:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:51:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:51:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:51:58 <trackbot> Date: 28 July 2011
14:52:20 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:33 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus
14:53:18 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: zakim, who is on the call?

14:53:18 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is

14:53:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot

14:53:33 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV

Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:53:33 <Zakim> ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

14:53:40 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: zakim, who is on the call?

14:53:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P33

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P33

14:53:49 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P33 is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P33 is me

14:53:49 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:54:04 <pgroth> can anyone on the call scribe today?

Paul Groth: can anyone on the call scribe today?

14:55:25 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far
14:56:00 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

14:56:19 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

14:56:19 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

14:57:15 <Zakim> + +1.443.987.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.987.aabb

14:57:57 <Zakim> + +1.858.210.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.858.210.aacc

14:58:13 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

14:58:33 <Curt> zakim, +1.443.987.aabb is me

Curt Tilmes: zakim, +1.443.987.aabb is me

14:58:33 <Zakim> +Curt; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt; got it

14:58:40 <pgroth> can anyone scribe today?

Paul Groth: can anyone scribe today?

14:58:48 <Zakim> +??P44

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44

15:00:48 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.449.aadd

15:01:15 <Zakim> +??P54

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P54

15:01:19 <pgroth> can someone scribe today?

Paul Groth: can someone scribe today?

15:01:56 <Zakim> +??P63

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P63

15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aaee

15:02:07 <smiles> zakim, ??P63 is me

Simon Miles: zakim, ??P63 is me

15:02:17 <Zakim> +smiles; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it

15:02:46 <pgroth> Scribe: smiles

(Scribe set to Simon Miles)

15:02:50 <Zakim> +??P68

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P68

15:02:58 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaff

15:03:03 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P54 is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P54 is me

15:03:03 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it

15:03:51 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen

Zakim IRC Bot: +Kingsley_Idehen

15:03:55 <smiles> pgroth: describes agenda

Paul Groth: describes agenda

15:04:00 <pgroth>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-07-21

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-07-21

15:04:01 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software

15:04:07 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:04:09 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it

15:04:09 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of 21 Jul telecon and F2F1

Paul Groth: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of 21 Jul telecon and F2F1

15:04:15 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:04:20 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:04:22 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:04:22 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:04:25 <smiles> 0 (was not present)

0 (was not present)

15:04:25 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:04:29 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:04:38 <Zakim> + +329331aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aagg

15:04:41 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:04:42 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:04:46 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

15:04:47 <Edoardo> +1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1

15:04:53 <dcorsar> =+1

David Corsar: =+1

15:05:03 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aagg is me

Sam Coppens: zakim, +329331aagg is me

15:05:04 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

15:05:08 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:05:14 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

15:05:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, +1.518.276.aaff, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, +1.518.276.aaff, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens,

15:05:23 <Zakim> ... ??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: ... ??P28

15:05:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimMyers, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimMyers, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed,

15:05:27 <smiles> Topic: Action items

1. Action items

Summary: All prior actions, except one ongoing, were considered completed or superceded, so have been closed.

<smiles> Summary: All prior actions, except one ongoing, were considered completed or superceded, so have been closed.
15:05:32 <Zakim> ... edsu, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... edsu, sandro, trackbot

15:05:46 <smiles> pgroth: Actions have been cleaned up, as sometimes completed, sometimes superceded

Paul Groth: Actions have been cleaned up, as sometimes completed, sometimes superceded

15:05:49 <Zakim> -??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P28

15:06:05 <smiles> pgroth: One action left on Stephan regarding 2nd iteration of use case questionnaire

Paul Groth: One action left on Stephan regarding 2nd iteration of use case questionnaire

15:06:30 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

15:06:40 <smiles> Topic: Deadline for issues submission

2. Deadline for issues submission

Summary: Any issues that should be addressed in the drafts should be raised by next Thursday. Issues can be raised after this, but will not be open, and will be dealt with after the first set of issues.

<smiles> Summary: Any issues that should be addressed in the drafts should be raised by next Thursday. Issues can be raised after this, but will not be open, and will be dealt with after the first set of issues.
15:06:47 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:06:49 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P13 is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P13 is me

15:06:58 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:07:02 <smiles> pgroth: would be good to have a deadline for issue submission, suggest next week's telecon

Paul Groth: would be good to have a deadline for issue submission, suggest next week's telecon

15:07:03 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

15:07:07 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

15:07:12 <GK> zakim, ??P10 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??P10 is me

15:07:13 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

15:07:15 <khalidbelhajjame> q?

Khalid Belhajjame: q?

15:07:19 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:07:22 <khalidbelhajjame> q+

Khalid Belhajjame: q+

15:07:38 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaff

15:07:50 <smiles> khalid: with respect to all drafts or just model and paq?

Khalid Belhajjame: with respect to all drafts or just model and paq?

15:07:55 <smiles> pgroth: should be all documents

Paul Groth: should be all documents

15:08:00 <khalidbelhajjame> q-

Khalid Belhajjame: q-

15:08:08 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aahh

15:08:25 <smiles> ... if we feel the need to later open up for further issues on a document, we can do so, e.g. we may need to do so for the ontology

... if we feel the need to later open up for further issues on a document, we can do so, e.g. we may need to do so for the ontology

15:08:29 <smiles> q+

q+

15:08:41 <GK> q+ to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed

Graham Klyne: q+ to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed

15:08:42 <pgroth> ack simon

Paul Groth: ack simon

15:09:20 <smiles> smiles: what do we do if we think of more issues after deadline

Simon Miles: what do we do if we think of more issues after deadline

15:09:20 <pgroth> ack smiles

Paul Groth: ack smiles

15:09:26 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK

15:09:26 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed

15:09:35 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

15:09:46 <jcheney> zakim, ??p12 is me

James Cheney: zakim, ??p12 is me

15:09:46 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it

15:09:46 <smiles> pgroth: should leave until after first draft, so we have a set we will resolve for that draft

Paul Groth: should leave until after first draft, so we have a set we will resolve for that draft

15:10:18 <smiles> GK: not reasonable to close the issue list, but end which issues will be in first draft

Graham Klyne: not reasonable to close the issue list, but end which issues will be in first draft

15:10:31 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaii

15:10:50 <smiles> pgroth: issues can be raised, but no more open issues for first draft after next week

Paul Groth: issues can be raised, but no more open issues for first draft after next week

15:11:09 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:11:09 <smiles> ... editor can say issue is closed pending review

... editor can say issue is closed pending review

15:11:47 <smiles> pgroth: Please sign up to scribe! especially for next week

Paul Groth: Please sign up to scribe! especially for next week

<smiles> Topic: Name suggestions for standard (model/language)

3. Name suggestions for standard (model/language)

Summary: All should look at the suggested names for the model/language, and add any new suggestions. We will have a poll in next week's telecon.

<smiles> Summary: All should look at the suggested names for the model/language, and add any new suggestions. We will have a poll in next week's telecon.
15:11:59 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/NameSuggestions

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/NameSuggestions

15:12:31 <smiles> pgroth: Please go to site above to look at suggestions

Paul Groth: Please go to site above to look at suggestions

15:12:55 <smiles> ... add suggestions, next week we will have a straw poll on what the group likes

... add suggestions, next week we will have a straw poll on what the group likes

15:13:12 <smiles> Topic: W3C Privacy Interest Group

4. W3C Privacy Interest Group

Summary: W3C is setting up two privacy-related interest groups, which may be relevant connections for encouraging adoption of the W3C provenance group's standards and/or as an influence on the requirements we have to consider.

<smiles> Summary: W3C is setting up two privacy-related interest groups, which may be relevant connections for encouraging adoption of the W3C provenance group's standards and/or as an influence on the requirements we have to consider.
15:13:44 <smiles> Christine: W3C is proposing two new privacy-related groups

Christine Runnegar: W3C is proposing two new privacy-related groups

15:13:57 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2011/07/privacy-ig-charter

Christine Runnegar: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/privacy-ig-charter

15:14:20 <smiles> ... Privacy Interest Group (URL above) and Tracking Protection Group (URL below)

... Privacy Interest Group (URL above) and Tracking Protection Group (URL below)

15:14:38 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter-draft

Christine Runnegar: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter-draft

15:15:11 <smiles> ... the privacy community may be one we are interested in talking to

... the privacy community may be one we are interested in talking to

15:15:54 <Zakim> +wcandillon

Zakim IRC Bot: +wcandillon

15:15:59 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:16:00 <smiles> ... might ask them to add our group to their charter, perhaps with regard to the agreed use of private data

... might ask them to add our group to their charter, perhaps with regard to the agreed use of private data

15:16:36 <smiles> pgroth: always useful to have connections to other WGs, just restricted by bandwidth of people in the group

Paul Groth: always useful to have connections to other WGs, just restricted by bandwidth of people in the group

15:16:50 <smiles> ... anyone in privacy groups involved in our WG?

... anyone in privacy groups involved in our WG?

15:17:09 <GK> q+ to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied

Graham Klyne: q+ to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied

15:17:17 <smiles> Christine: privacy groups not formed yet, but am considering asking to join

Christine Runnegar: privacy groups not formed yet, but am considering asking to join

15:17:20 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK

15:17:20 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied

15:17:59 <smiles> GK: is benefit of interaction of groups at technical level, or maybe better at policy level, reinforcing user trust in systems?

Graham Klyne: is benefit of interaction of groups at technical level, or maybe better at policy level, reinforcing user trust in systems?

15:19:14 <smiles> Christine: TP group will be very technical, but what is interesting about PIG for W3C is people with interest in both user and technical areas

Christine Runnegar: TP group will be very technical, but what is interesting about PIG for W3C is people with interest in both user and technical areas

15:20:01 <smiles> pgroth: if group gets formed, useful to know what we can do to advertise provenance WG work as it can help them

Paul Groth: if group gets formed, useful to know what we can do to advertise provenance WG work as it can help them

15:20:04 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:20:27 <GK> (What's to object to?)

Graham Klyne: (What's to object to?)

15:20:48 <smiles> Topic: Update on provenance access document

5. Update on provenance access document

Summary: The provenance access document is now in the version control system, some issues have been raised, and resolving them is ongoing.

<smiles> Summary: The provenance access document is now in the version control system, some issues have been raised, and resolving them is ongoing.
15:21:07 <Zakim> -wcandillon

Scribe problem: the name 'wcandillon' does not match any of the 55 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ilkay Altintas Reza B'Far Khalid Belhajjame James Cheney Sam Coppens David Corsar Stephen Cresswell Helena Deus Simon Dobson Martin Doerr Kai Eckert Jean-Pierre EVAIN Thomas Francart James Frew Irini Fundulaki Daniel Garijo Yolanda Gil Ryan Golden Paul Groth Olaf Hartig David Hau Sandro Hawke Jörn Hees Ralph Hodgson Iker Huerga Trung Huynh Graham Klyne Timothy Lebo James McCusker Deborah McGuinness Simon Miles Paolo Missier Luc Moreau James Myers Vinh Nguyen Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti Paulo Pinheiro da Silva Carl Reed Christine Runnegar Satya Sahoo david schaengold Daniel Schutzer Yogesh Simmhan Stian Soiland-Reyes Eric Stephan Linda Stewart Ed Summers Maria Theodoridou Ted Thibodeau Curt Tilmes Stephan Zednik Jun Zhao Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -wcandillon

15:21:15 <smiles> GK: document now in version control repository

Graham Klyne: document now in version control repository

15:21:32 <Zakim> +wcandillon

Zakim IRC Bot: +wcandillon

15:21:34 <smiles> ... some issues raised, GK responding

... some issues raised, GK responding

15:21:41 <jorn> zakim, ??p17 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p17 is me

15:21:41 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it

15:22:17 <smiles> ... several editorial issues dealt with, but other issues require more discussion, including interaction of access mechanism and model

... several editorial issues dealt with, but other issues require more discussion, including interaction of access mechanism and model

15:22:38 <khalidbelhajjame> q+

Khalid Belhajjame: q+

15:22:44 <tlebo> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/bc0bbf26efab/paq/provenance-access.html, right?

Timothy Lebo: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/bc0bbf26efab/paq/provenance-access.html, right?

15:22:48 <pgroth> ack khalid

Paul Groth: ack khalid

15:23:05 <smiles> khalid: is version on main page of WG Wiki the one circulated this morning?

Khalid Belhajjame: is version on main page of WG Wiki the one circulated this morning?

15:23:37 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts

Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts

15:23:39 <smiles> GK: yes, should be the latest one

Graham Klyne: yes, should be the latest one

15:23:47 <tlebo> refers to the "always latest" http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/provenance-access.html

Timothy Lebo: refers to the "always latest" http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/provenance-access.html

15:23:58 <khalidbelhajjame> q-

Khalid Belhajjame: q-

15:24:23 <Zakim> -wcandillon

Scribe problem: the name 'wcandillon' does not match any of the 55 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ilkay Altintas Reza B'Far Khalid Belhajjame James Cheney Sam Coppens David Corsar Stephen Cresswell Helena Deus Simon Dobson Martin Doerr Kai Eckert Jean-Pierre EVAIN Thomas Francart James Frew Irini Fundulaki Daniel Garijo Yolanda Gil Ryan Golden Paul Groth Olaf Hartig David Hau Sandro Hawke Jörn Hees Ralph Hodgson Iker Huerga Trung Huynh Graham Klyne Timothy Lebo James McCusker Deborah McGuinness Simon Miles Paolo Missier Luc Moreau James Myers Vinh Nguyen Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti Paulo Pinheiro da Silva Carl Reed Christine Runnegar Satya Sahoo david schaengold Daniel Schutzer Yogesh Simmhan Stian Soiland-Reyes Eric Stephan Linda Stewart Ed Summers Maria Theodoridou Ted Thibodeau Curt Tilmes Stephan Zednik Jun Zhao Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -wcandillon

15:24:31 <smiles> Topic: Provenance ontology

6. Provenance ontology

Summary: A draft ontology (OWL file) and accompanying description (HTML document) have been made available. There are currently discrepancies due to unresolved issues with the conceptual model. Someone from RPI will join Satya in editing the document.

<smiles> Summary: A draft ontology (OWL file) and accompanying description (HTML document) have been made available. There are currently discrepancies due to unresolved issues with the conceptual model. Someone from RPI will join Satya in editing the document.
15:24:45 <pgroth> Satya?

Paul Groth: Satya?

15:25:14 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:25:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens, dgarijo, GK,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens, dgarijo, GK,

15:25:17 <Zakim> ... +1.518.276.aahh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aaii, jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.276.aahh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aaii, jorn

15:25:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, jorn, satya, jcheney, GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimMyers, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Yogesh, jorn, satya, jcheney, GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimMyers, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc,

15:25:20 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot

15:25:31 <satya> a couple of mins - just joing again

Satya Sahoo: a couple of mins - just joing again

15:25:46 <smiles> pgroth: first draft of ontology, available on version control, plus brief document describing class hierarchy

Paul Groth: first draft of ontology, available on version control, plus brief document describing class hierarchy

15:26:03 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:26:12 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:26:14 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:26:20 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

15:27:13 <smiles> Luc: some differences between ontology file and specification document, e.g. most concepts subclass of Bob in one document but not the other

Luc Moreau: some differences between ontology file and specification document, e.g. most concepts subclass of Bob in one document but not the other

15:27:14 <Zakim> + +1.706.461.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.706.461.aajj

15:27:33 <smiles> ... also, some differences with conceptual model, not sure how group should address these

... also, some differences with conceptual model, not sure how group should address these

15:28:16 <khalidbelhajjame> Probably we can wait a bit until the model is stable, and most issues are resolved, before trying to check the consistency between the model and the OWL ontology

Khalid Belhajjame: Probably we can wait a bit until the model is stable, and most issues are resolved, before trying to check the consistency between the model and the OWL ontology

15:29:04 <smiles> satya: HTML is most consistent version, OWL is under development taking into account capabilities of OWL

Satya Sahoo: HTML is most consistent version, OWL is under development taking into account capabilities of OWL

15:29:53 <smiles> ... by definitions in conceptual model, process execution and agent are subclasses of BOB, so in HTML document, but am to raise this issue with conceptual model

... by definitions in conceptual model, process execution and agent are subclasses of BOB, so in HTML document, but am to raise this issue with conceptual model

15:30:23 <dgarijo> q+

Daniel Garijo: q+

15:30:54 <smiles> ... please fire issues regarding discrepancies of HTML specification of formal model and conceptual model

... please fire issues regarding discrepancies of HTML specification of formal model and conceptual model

15:31:52 <dgarijo> @Satya: I would like to help you in this task

Daniel Garijo: @Satya: I would like to help you in this task

15:31:54 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

15:31:59 <smiles> ... met RPI people, to get help with editing document, ontology, visualising schema

... met RPI people, to get help with editing document, ontology, visualising schema

15:32:03 <tlebo> q+ I've volunteered

Timothy Lebo: q+ I've volunteered

15:32:29 <khalidbelhajjame> yes, I would like to help. I am not expert in OWL, but am ready to give it a go

Khalid Belhajjame: yes, I would like to help. I am not expert in OWL, but am ready to give it a go

15:32:34 <Zakim> + +1.512.524.aakk

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.512.524.aakk

15:32:41 <smiles> Luc: Paul and I will find co-editor for this document, probably from RPI

Luc Moreau: Paul and I will find co-editor for this document, probably from RPI

15:32:45 <pgroth> ack dgarijo

Paul Groth: ack dgarijo

15:33:29 <smiles> dgarijo: sent issues by email about document, will raise

Daniel Garijo: sent issues by email about document, will raise

15:33:39 <smiles> ... volunteers to help on formal semantics

... volunteers to help on formal semantics

15:33:47 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

15:33:48 <Luc> Regrets: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier
15:33:49 <khalidbelhajjame> Thanks Satya

Khalid Belhajjame: Thanks Satya

15:33:53 <smiles> satya: will contact those interested in helping on formal semantics

Satya Sahoo: will contact those interested in helping on formal semantics

15:34:07 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier, James McCusker
15:34:15 <smiles> tlebo: will help out in defining ontology, Deborah sent some guidance by email

Timothy Lebo: will help out in defining ontology, Deborah sent some guidance by email

15:34:16 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:34:18 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540 is me

Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, +1.540 is me

15:34:18 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh; got it

15:34:22 <tlebo> q-

Timothy Lebo: q-

15:34:27 <pgroth> ack sees I've

Paul Groth: ack sees I've

15:34:42 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:34:45 <smiles> ack I've

ack I've

15:34:50 <smiles> ack volun

ack volun

15:35:00 <smiles> Topic: Conceptual model

7. Conceptual model

Summary: The conceptual model has been put into the version control and many issues are under discussion. Due to holidays, everyone should aim to raise any new issues by early in the coming week.

<smiles> Summary: The conceptual model has been put into the version control and many issues are under discussion. Due to holidays, everyone should aim to raise any new issues by early in the coming week.
15:35:25 <smiles> Luc: document released by Paolo and I, many issues raised, lots of discussion

Luc Moreau: document released by Paolo and I, many issues raised, lots of discussion

15:35:31 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn

15:35:38 <smiles> ... some issues dealt with, hope to be able to close soon

... some issues dealt with, hope to be able to close soon

15:35:55 <smiles> ... over next week deal with others, then Paolo and I away for two weeks

... over next week deal with others, then Paolo and I away for two weeks

15:36:12 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:36:16 <smiles> pgroth: possible to get some core issues done, so satya can proceed?

Paul Groth: possible to get some core issues done, so satya can proceed?

15:36:46 <smiles> Luc: by the time Paolo and I go away, hope to have reasonable set of concepts defined, possibly up to Role in the document

Luc Moreau: by the time Paolo and I go away, hope to have reasonable set of concepts defined, possibly up to Role in the document

15:37:08 <smiles> ... have these sections in a decent state

... have these sections in a decent state

15:37:11 <GK> I regret I haven't had time to review the provenance model doc properly yet, but when I do I'd like to draft a proposal to eliminate the Entity/BOB distinction.

Graham Klyne: I regret I haven't had time to review the provenance model doc properly yet, but when I do I'd like to draft a proposal to eliminate the Entity/BOB distinction.

15:37:31 <smiles> ... not sure whether people have more issues to raise

... not sure whether people have more issues to raise

15:38:13 <smiles> Luc: need to decide on Entity/BOB soon

Luc Moreau: need to decide on Entity/BOB soon

15:38:33 <smiles> pgroth: get issues in my early next week, to ensure get somewhere before Luc, Paolo away

Paul Groth: get issues in my early next week, to ensure get somewhere before Luc, Paolo away

15:38:36 <pgroth> issues up to 5.11

Paul Groth: issues up to 5.11

15:38:46 <smiles> Topic: BOB

8. BOB

Summary: The BOB (previously 'thing') concept was discussed. It was agreed that there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB). The group was polled on different names for this concept.

<smiles> Summary: The BOB (previously 'thing') concept was discussed. It was agreed that there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB). The group was polled on different names for this concept.
15:39:18 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#bob

Paul Groth: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#bob

15:39:29 <smiles> Luc: In Section 5.1, we have BOB concept, which is a construct of the language

Luc Moreau: In Section 5.1, we have BOB concept, which is a construct of the language

15:39:42 <smiles> ... no term called 'entity'

... no term called 'entity'

15:40:18 <smiles> ... in text of document use term entity with natural language meaning, not defined as part of model

... in text of document use term entity with natural language meaning, not defined as part of model

15:40:44 <smiles> ... Need to decide on two issues. (1) Have we got only one concept in the model?

... Need to decide on two issues. (1) Have we got only one concept in the model?

15:40:51 <GK> AH, OK, "BOB" is the new "Entity"

Graham Klyne: AH, OK, "BOB" is the new "Entity"

15:40:52 <smiles> ... (2) What should we call it?

... (2) What should we call it?

15:40:56 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:41:18 <smiles> q+

q+

15:41:31 <rgolden> +1

Ryan Golden: +1

15:41:34 <smiles> Luc: question (1) may translate to: is there only one class in the ontology?

Luc Moreau: question (1) may translate to: is there only one class in the ontology?

15:41:36 <GK> +1 for only one [formal class] construct in the language

Graham Klyne: +1 for only one [formal class] construct in the language

15:41:43 <pgroth> ack smiles

Paul Groth: ack smiles

15:41:57 <JimMyers> +1

James Myers: +1

<smiles> smiles: agree that there is only one concept in the model

Simon Miles: agree that there is only one concept in the model

15:42:23 <smiles> +1

+1

15:42:29 <satya> +1 agree with one concept and proposal for calling it entity

Satya Sahoo: +1 agree with one concept and proposal for calling it entity

15:43:00 <tlebo> +1 for Entity not a class in the model, Concept is a class.

Timothy Lebo: +1 for Entity not a class in the model, Concept is a class.

15:43:00 <zednik> +1 agree with one concept and call it entity

Stephan Zednik: +1 agree with one concept and call it entity

15:43:03 <smiles> Luc: Jim McCusker has argued for two distinct concepts

Luc Moreau: Jim McCusker has argued for two distinct concepts

15:43:13 <satya> Jim McCusker  is in a conference - may not be on the call

Satya Sahoo: Jim McCusker is in a conference - may not be on the call

15:44:06 <smiles> khalid: I believe the idea Jim was to allow us to be able to express that two BOBs characterise same entity

Khalid Belhajjame: I believe the idea Jim was to allow us to be able to express that two BOBs characterise same entity

15:44:10 <JimMyers> q+

James Myers: q+

15:44:14 <GK> q+ to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment

Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment

15:44:38 <smiles> ... I was supporting same but not include entity as a concept in the model

... I was supporting same but not include entity as a concept in the model

15:44:38 <Luc> @GK, the draft makes this clear

Luc Moreau: @GK, the draft makes this clear

15:45:10 <pgroth> ack JimMyers

Paul Groth: ack JimMyers

15:45:46 <smiles> JimMyers: I think Jim McCusker is trying to distinguish between a thing and the document describing it

James Myers: I think Jim McCusker is trying to distinguish between a thing and the document describing it

15:46:10 <smiles> ... e.g. a URI for him, one for document describing him

... e.g. a URI for him, one for document describing him

15:46:17 <GK> @Luc, I'm sure it does, but lacking time to do a proper review I haven't been aware of the change

Graham Klyne: @Luc, I'm sure it does, but lacking time to do a proper review I haven't been aware of the change

15:46:50 <JimMyers> q-

James Myers: q-

15:46:53 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK

15:46:53 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment

15:47:12 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:47:19 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

15:47:52 <smiles> Luc: never had both BOB and entity, so having one will not be a change

Luc Moreau: never had both BOB and entity, so having one will not be a change

15:47:52 <tlebo> Entity vs. BOB - We can't write Entities down, we can only write down BOBs that can only scratch at describing the real physical or conceptual Entity

Timothy Lebo: Entity vs. BOB - We can't write Entities down, we can only write down BOBs that can only scratch at describing the real physical or conceptual Entity

15:48:13 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:48:34 <rgolden> the whiteboard was the source of my confusion

Ryan Golden: the whiteboard was the source of my confusion

15:48:37 <smiles> GK: recollects whiteboard with two columns

Graham Klyne: recollects whiteboard with two columns

15:48:55 <StephenCresswell> +1 for bobs only in model, if there's a way to identify the "top bob"

Stephen Cresswell: +1 for bobs only in model, if there's a way to identify the "top bob"

15:48:57 <rgolden> but now realize that the left column on the whiteboard was not a first-class concept

Ryan Golden: but now realize that the left column on the whiteboard was not a first-class concept

15:49:12 <smiles> Luc: right column was constructs in the language, left was term used informally

Luc Moreau: right column was constructs in the language, left was term used informally

15:49:51 <smiles> GK: when you say "represent" do you mean "denote"?

Graham Klyne: when you say "represent" do you mean "denote"?

15:50:04 <khalidbelhajjame> Stuff became Entity and Thing became Bob

Khalid Belhajjame: Stuff became Entity and Thing became Bob

15:50:06 <smiles> Luc: please go back to document to see exact wording

Luc Moreau: please go back to document to see exact wording

15:50:15 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

15:50:35 <pgroth> ack satya

Paul Groth: ack satya

15:51:22 <smiles> satya: when considering provenance, we should not distinguish between what is in real world and our representation in an information system

Satya Sahoo: when considering provenance, we should not distinguish between what is in real world and our representation in an information system

15:51:26 <tlebo> the whiteboard from F2F1 distinguishing Entities from BOBs http://twitpic.com/5x7oen/full

Timothy Lebo: the whiteboard from F2F1 distinguishing Entities from BOBs http://twitpic.com/5x7oen/full

15:51:39 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17

15:51:43 <smiles> ... we should only be concerned with our constructs, so only one concept

... we should only be concerned with our constructs, so only one concept

15:51:45 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:52:06 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:52:24 <pgroth> proposed: this is the Existence of a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

PROPOSED: this is the Existence of a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

15:52:28 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:52:32 <smiles> +1

+1

15:52:37 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:52:39 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

15:52:40 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:52:40 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:52:41 <jcheney> 0

James Cheney: 0

15:52:42 <JimMyers> +1

James Myers: +1

15:52:44 <Edoardo> +1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1

15:52:50 <rgolden> Phrased a bit oddly, but +1

Ryan Golden: Phrased a bit oddly, but +1

15:52:53 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:53:04 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:53:07 <rgolden> sure

Ryan Golden: sure

15:53:10 <ilkayaltintas> +1

Ilkay Altintas: +1

15:53:20 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:53:22 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

15:53:33 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:53:41 <rgolden> proposed: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

PROPOSED: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

15:53:43 <Luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

15:53:49 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:53:59 <tlebo> +1 (as long as "entity" is part of the description of pil:BOB

Timothy Lebo: +1 (as long as "entity" is part of the description of pil:BOB

15:54:07 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:54:10 <smiles> +1

+1

15:54:10 <rgolden> +1

Ryan Golden: +1

15:54:12 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:54:12 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:54:15 <Yogesh> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1

15:54:19 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:54:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 (for both proposals :-)

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 (for both proposals :-)

15:54:29 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:54:38 <Edoardo> +1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1

15:54:41 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:54:56 <smiles> Accepted: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

RESOLVED: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)

15:54:59 <dgarijo> @tlebo: yes, it is used: "A BOB represents an identifiable characterized entity"

Daniel Garijo: @tlebo: yes, it is used: "A BOB represents an identifiable characterized entity"

15:55:30 <smiles> pgroth: What should we call BOB?

Paul Groth: What should we call BOB?

15:55:43 <pgroth> Entity,

Paul Groth: Entity,

15:55:44 <pgroth> Snapshot

Paul Groth: Snapshot

15:55:44 <pgroth> View

Paul Groth: View

15:55:44 <pgroth> Perspective

Paul Groth: Perspective

15:55:44 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

Paul Groth: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

15:55:59 <khalidbelhajjame> EntitySnapshot

Khalid Belhajjame: EntitySnapshot

15:56:01 <rgolden> Identifiable

Ryan Golden: Identifiable

15:56:04 <StephenCresswell> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

Stephen Cresswell: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

15:56:07 <JimMyers> resource :-)

James Myers: resource :-)

15:56:12 <smiles> Thing

Thing

15:56:13 <dgarijo> EntityDescription?

Daniel Garijo: EntityDescription?

15:56:17 <GK> q+ to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?

Graham Klyne: q+ to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?

15:56:29 <StephenCresswell> Appearance

Stephen Cresswell: Appearance

15:56:29 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

15:56:43 <pgroth> ack GK

Paul Groth: ack GK

15:56:43 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?

15:56:44 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:56:48 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

15:56:52 <smiles> GK: is there anything to distinguish the concept from an RDF resource or OWL Thing?

Graham Klyne: is there anything to distinguish the concept from an RDF resource or OWL Thing?

15:56:55 <smiles> Luc: yes and no

Luc Moreau: yes and no

15:57:20 <smiles> ... BOB's should be identifiable as with resource/Thing, but also list attributes and their values

... BOB's should be identifiable as with resource/Thing, but also list attributes and their values

15:57:20 <satya> q+ to GK for clarifying his que

Satya Sahoo: q+ to GK for clarifying his que

15:57:45 <tlebo> BOBs are a very small subset of rdfs:Resource/owl:Thing; BOBs are only the things we've written down to describe entities.

Timothy Lebo: BOBs are a very small subset of rdfs:Resource/owl:Thing; BOBs are only the things we've written down to describe entities.

15:57:47 <smiles> ... Thing can be extended to have attributes, values

... Thing can be extended to have attributes, values

15:57:47 <JimMyers> teh difference is by degree - we might want to look in more detail/shorter lived things, but I don't see a difference in kind

James Myers: teh difference is by degree - we might want to look in more detail/shorter lived things, but I don't see a difference in kind

15:58:13 <smiles> GK: resources and Things have attributes, just not required attributes

Graham Klyne: resources and Things have attributes, just not required attributes

15:58:20 <pgroth> ack satya

Paul Groth: ack satya

15:58:20 <Zakim> satya, you wanted to GK for clarifying his que

Zakim IRC Bot: satya, you wanted to GK for clarifying his que

15:58:24 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

15:58:47 <smiles> satya: RDF resource and OWL Thing are different from each other

Satya Sahoo: RDF resource and OWL Thing are different from each other

15:58:54 <GK> My proposal is owl:Thing or rdf:Resource (areen't they the same in OWL full?)

Graham Klyne: My proposal is owl:Thing or rdf:Resource (areen't they the same in OWL full?)

15:59:26 <smiles> tlebo: BOB's are only things we are writing down to describe entities in the real world

Timothy Lebo: BOB's are only things we are writing down to describe entities in the real world

15:59:29 <GK> I thoughts BOBs could be anything too

Graham Klyne: I thoughts BOBs could be anything too

15:59:52 <smiles> Luc: agree that BOB is subclass of RDF resource or OWL Thing

Luc Moreau: agree that BOB is subclass of RDF resource or OWL Thing

16:00:02 <smiles> ... but can postpone this debate (use sameAs)

... but can postpone this debate (use sameAs)

16:00:08 <pgroth> Entity,

Paul Groth: Entity,

16:00:09 <pgroth> Snapshot

Paul Groth: Snapshot

16:00:09 <pgroth> View

Paul Groth: View

16:00:09 <pgroth> Perspective

Paul Groth: Perspective

16:00:10 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

Paul Groth: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

16:00:10 <pgroth> EntitySnapshot

Paul Groth: EntitySnapshot

16:00:11 <pgroth> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

Paul Groth: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

16:00:13 <pgroth> resource

Paul Groth: resource

16:00:15 <pgroth> Thing

Paul Groth: Thing

16:00:17 <pgroth> EntityDescription

Paul Groth: EntityDescription

16:00:19 <pgroth> Appearance

Paul Groth: Appearance

16:00:31 <tlebo> "writing down" in a very general sense. BOBs must exist in space time.

Timothy Lebo: "writing down" in a very general sense. BOBs must exist in space time.

16:00:38 <rgolden> Identifiable

Ryan Golden: Identifiable

16:00:41 <satya> +1 for Entity

Satya Sahoo: +1 for Entity

16:00:44 <pgroth> Entity

Paul Groth: Entity

16:00:47 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

16:00:48 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

16:00:48 <JimMyers> +1

James Myers: +1

16:00:49 <smiles> +1

+1

16:00:49 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

16:00:49 <rgolden> +1

Ryan Golden: +1

16:00:50 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:00:53 <Edoardo> +1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1

16:00:54 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

16:00:57 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

16:00:58 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

16:00:58 <Yogesh> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1

16:00:59 <khalidbelhajjame> 0 for Entity

Khalid Belhajjame: 0 for Entity

16:01:05 <pgroth> Snapshot

Paul Groth: Snapshot

16:01:06 <ilkayaltintas> +1

Ilkay Altintas: +1

16:01:06 <jcheney> (+1 for simoninireland who is here)

James Cheney: (+1 for simoninireland who is here)

16:01:08 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:01:08 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:01:09 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:01:10 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

16:01:11 <Yogesh> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1

16:01:12 <Luc> @rgolden, process executions are also identifiable but are not BOBs

Luc Moreau: @rgolden, process executions are also identifiable but are not BOBs

16:01:14 <smiles> -1

-1

16:01:16 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

16:01:18 <dgarijo> 0

Daniel Garijo: 0

16:01:18 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:01:22 <pgroth> View

Paul Groth: View

16:01:24 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:01:25 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:01:25 <smiles> -1

-1

16:01:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

16:01:26 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:01:26 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:01:27 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:01:29 <zednik> -1

Stephan Zednik: -1

16:01:30 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

16:01:32 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:01:32 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:01:38 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:01:40 <pgroth> Perspective

Paul Groth: Perspective

16:01:42 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:01:43 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:01:43 <smiles> -1

-1

16:01:43 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:01:43 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

16:01:43 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:01:43 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:01:45 <Yogesh> 0

Yogesh Simmhan: 0

16:01:46 <rgolden> -1

Ryan Golden: -1

16:01:49 <ilkayaltintas> 0

Ilkay Altintas: 0

16:01:50 <dgarijo> 0

Daniel Garijo: 0

16:01:54 <SamCoppens> 0

Sam Coppens: 0

16:01:57 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:01:59 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:02:03 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

Paul Groth: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance

16:02:05 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:02:05 <zednik> -1

Stephan Zednik: -1

16:02:06 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:02:06 <JimMyers> 0

James Myers: 0

16:02:07 <rgolden> -1

Ryan Golden: -1

16:02:08 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:02:08 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:02:09 <smiles> 0

0

16:02:09 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:02:11 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:02:13 <dgarijo> 0

Daniel Garijo: 0

16:02:13 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:02:15 <Curt> 0

Curt Tilmes: 0

16:02:17 <Yogesh> 0

Yogesh Simmhan: 0

16:02:20 <pgroth> EntitySnapshot

Paul Groth: EntitySnapshot

16:02:21 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:02:22 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:02:24 <smiles> -1

-1

16:02:24 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:02:24 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:02:24 <Yogesh> +1

Yogesh Simmhan: +1

16:02:25 <ilkayaltintas> -1

Ilkay Altintas: -1

16:02:26 <rgolden> -1

Ryan Golden: -1

16:02:27 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:02:27 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

16:02:30 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:02:31 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:02:34 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:02:40 <pgroth> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

Paul Groth: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)

16:02:42 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:02:45 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:02:47 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:02:47 <rgolden> :) -1

Ryan Golden: :) -1

16:02:47 <smiles> -1

-1

16:02:47 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:02:49 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:02:50 <ilkayaltintas> -1  :)

Ilkay Altintas: -1 :)

16:02:52 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:02:53 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:02:53 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:02:54 <zednik> :) -1

Stephan Zednik: :) -1

16:02:56 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:02:56 <JimMyers> :-), but -1

James Myers: :-), but -1

16:02:57 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:03:02 <pgroth> resource

Paul Groth: resource

16:03:05 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:03:05 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

16:03:07 <smiles> 0

0

16:03:08 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:03:08 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:03:09 <tlebo> -1

Timothy Lebo: -1

16:03:09 <Edoardo> 0

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: 0

16:03:10 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:03:11 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:03:11 <JimMyers> +1

James Myers: +1

16:03:12 <rgolden> 0

Ryan Golden: 0

16:03:12 <ilkayaltintas> 0

Ilkay Altintas: 0

16:03:13 <MacTed> -1

Ted Thibodeau: -1

16:03:13 <jcheney> 0

James Cheney: 0

16:03:14 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:03:15 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:03:18 <pgroth> Thing

Paul Groth: Thing

16:03:20 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:03:20 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

16:03:22 <smiles> +1

+1

16:03:22 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:03:22 <ilkayaltintas> -1

Ilkay Altintas: -1

16:03:22 <tlebo> -1

Timothy Lebo: -1

16:03:23 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:03:24 <JimMyers> +1

James Myers: +1

16:03:25 <Edoardo> 0

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: 0

16:03:25 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:03:25 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:03:26 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:03:27 <rgolden> 0

Ryan Golden: 0

16:03:30 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:03:32 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

16:03:35 <pgroth> EntityDescription

Paul Groth: EntityDescription

16:03:36 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:03:39 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:03:39 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:03:39 <smiles> -1

-1

16:03:39 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:03:39 <rgolden> -1

Ryan Golden: -1

16:03:39 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:03:40 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:03:40 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:03:41 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:03:43 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:03:43 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:03:47 <khalidbelhajjame> 0

Khalid Belhajjame: 0

16:03:51 <pgroth> Appearance

Paul Groth: Appearance

16:03:55 <Yogesh> -1

Yogesh Simmhan: -1

16:03:55 <GK> -1

Graham Klyne: -1

16:03:55 <JimMyers> -1

James Myers: -1

16:03:56 <Curt> -1

Curt Tilmes: -1

16:03:56 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:03:56 <rgolden> -1

Ryan Golden: -1

16:03:56 <smiles> 0

0

16:03:56 <Edoardo> -1

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1

16:03:56 <dgarijo> -1

Daniel Garijo: -1

16:03:57 <jcheney> -1

James Cheney: -1

16:03:57 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:03:57 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:03:57 <ilkayaltintas> -1

Ilkay Altintas: -1

16:03:59 <dcorsar> -1

David Corsar: -1

16:04:04 <zednik> -1

Stephan Zednik: -1

16:04:25 <pgroth> Identifiable

Paul Groth: Identifiable

16:04:27 <Yogesh> 0

Yogesh Simmhan: 0

16:04:27 <rgolden> +1

Ryan Golden: +1

16:04:29 <satya> -1

Satya Sahoo: -1

16:04:29 <dgarijo> 0

Daniel Garijo: 0

16:04:31 <SamCoppens> -1

Sam Coppens: -1

16:04:31 <khalidbelhajjame> -1

Khalid Belhajjame: -1

16:04:31 <Edoardo> 0

Edoardo (Edoardo, Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: 0

16:04:31 <Curt> 0

Curt Tilmes: 0

16:04:33 <smiles> 0

0

16:04:34 <tlebo> 0

Timothy Lebo: 0

16:04:35 <dcorsar> 0

David Corsar: 0

16:04:35 <jcheney> 0

James Cheney: 0

16:04:35 <JimMyers> 0

James Myers: 0

16:04:37 <GK> 0/+1...?

Graham Klyne: 0/+1...?

16:05:04 <smiles> pgroth: just a straw poll, but gives good indication

Paul Groth: just a straw poll, but gives good indication

16:05:18 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame

16:05:19 <Zakim> -Yogesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh

16:05:19 <Zakim> - +1.512.524.aakk

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.512.524.aakk

16:05:20 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaii

16:05:21 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aahh

16:05:21 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public

Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public

16:05:22 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

16:05:24 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

16:05:26 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

16:05:28 <Zakim> -??P68

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P68

16:05:30 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes

Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth

16:05:30 <Zakim> -SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens

16:05:32 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

16:05:35 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon

Paul Groth: trackbot, end telcon

16:05:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:05:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:05:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot

16:05:36 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:05:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:05:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items

16:05:38 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2011-07-31 16:14:11 UTC by 'pgroth', comments: 'Simon Miles added summaries and resolutions. Paul Groth made modifications to sort out irc naming conventions'