IRC log of prov on 2011-07-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:51:53 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:51:53 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-irc
14:51:55 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:55 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #prov
14:51:57 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be
14:51:57 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:51:58 [trackbot]: Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:51:58 [trackbot]: Date: 28 July 2011
14:52:20 [pgroth]: Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:33 [pgroth]: Regrets: Helena Deus
14:53:18 [pgroth]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:53:18 [Zakim]: sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is
14:53:19 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot
14:53:33 [pgroth]: Zakim, this will be PROV
14:53:33 [Zakim]: ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
14:53:40 [pgroth]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:53:40 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P33
14:53:49 [pgroth]: Zakim, ??P33 is me
14:53:49 [Zakim]: +pgroth; got it
14:53:52 [Luc]: Luc has joined #prov
14:54:04 [pgroth]: can anyone on the call scribe today?
14:55:25 [pgroth]: Regrests: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far
14:56:00 [Zakim]: + +44.238.059.aaaa
14:56:19 [Luc]: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:56:19 [Zakim]: +Luc; got it
14:56:40 [Curt]: Curt has joined #prov
14:57:15 [Zakim]: + +1.443.987.aabb
14:57:25 [Edoardo]: Edoardo has joined #prov
14:57:57 [Zakim]: + +1.858.210.aacc
14:58:13 [Zakim]: +??P41
14:58:33 [Curt]: zakim, +1.443.987.aabb is me
14:58:33 [Zakim]: +Curt; got it
14:58:40 [pgroth]: can anyone scribe today?
14:58:48 [Zakim]: +??P44
14:58:56 [GK1]: GK1 has joined #prov
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15:00:48 [Zakim]: + +1.540.449.aadd
15:01:15 [Zakim]: +??P54
15:01:19 [pgroth]: can someone scribe today?
15:01:56 [Zakim]: +??P63
15:02:04 [Zakim]: + +1.518.633.aaee
15:02:07 [smiles]: zakim, ??P63 is me
15:02:17 [Zakim]: +smiles; got it
15:02:46 [pgroth]: Scribe: smiles
15:02:46 [SamCoppens]: SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:02:50 [Zakim]: +??P68
15:02:52 [Christine]: Christine has joined #prov
15:02:58 [Zakim]: + +1.518.276.aaff
15:03:03 [khalidbelhajjame]: zakim, ??P54 is me
15:03:03 [Zakim]: +khalidbelhajjame; got it
15:03:13 [tlebo]: tlebo has joined #prov
15:03:51 [Zakim]: +Kingsley_Idehen
15:03:55 [smiles]: pgroth: describes agenda
15:04:00 [pgroth]: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-07-21
15:04:01 [MacTed]: Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:04:07 [MacTed]: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:04:09 [Zakim]: +OpenLink_Software; got it
15:04:09 [pgroth]: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of 21 Jul telecon and F2F1
15:04:15 [Zakim]: +MacTed; got it
15:04:20 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
15:04:22 [tlebo]: +1
15:04:22 [Curt]: +1
15:04:25 [smiles]: 0 (was not present)
15:04:25 [zednik]: +1
15:04:29 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
15:04:38 [Zakim]: + +329331aagg
15:04:41 [StephenCresswell]: +1
15:04:42 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
15:04:46 [Zakim]: +??P28
15:04:47 [Edoardo]: +1
15:04:48 [dgarijo]: dgarijo has joined #prov
15:04:53 [dcorsar]: =+1
15:04:53 [GK]: GK has joined #prov
15:05:03 [SamCoppens]: zakim, +329331aagg is me
15:05:04 [Zakim]: +SamCoppens; got it
15:05:08 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's here?
15:05:14 [pgroth]: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
15:05:16 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, +1.518.276.aaff, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens,
15:05:23 [Zakim]: ... ??P28
15:05:27 [Zakim]: On IRC I see GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimM, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed,
15:05:27 [smiles]: Topic: Action items
15:05:32 [Zakim]: ... edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:05:46 [smiles]: pgroth: Actions have been cleaned up, as sometimes completed, sometimes superceded
15:05:49 [Zakim]: -??P28
15:06:05 [smiles]: pgroth: One action left on Stephan regarding 2nd iteration of use case questionnaire
15:06:30 [Zakim]: +??P13
15:06:40 [smiles]: Topic: deadline for issues submission
15:06:47 [Luc]: q?
15:06:49 [dgarijo]: Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:06:58 [pgroth]: q?
15:07:02 [smiles]: pgroth: would be good to have a deadline for issue submission, suggest next week's telecon
15:07:03 [Zakim]: +??P10
15:07:07 [Zakim]: +dgarijo; got it
15:07:12 [GK]: zakim, ??P10 is me
15:07:13 [Zakim]: +GK; got it
15:07:15 [khalidbelhajjame]: ?q
15:07:19 [pgroth]: q?
15:07:22 [khalidbelhajjame]: +q
15:07:38 [Zakim]: - +1.518.276.aaff
15:07:50 [smiles]: khalid: with respect to all drafts or just model and paq?
15:07:55 [smiles]: pgroth: should be all documents
15:08:00 [khalidbelhajjame]: -q
15:08:08 [Zakim]: + +1.518.276.aahh
15:08:25 [smiles]: ... if we feel like opening up for a document, we can do so, e.g. ontology
15:08:29 [smiles]: q+
15:08:41 [GK]: q+ to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed
15:08:42 [pgroth]: ack simon
15:09:20 [smiles]: smiles: what do we do if we think of more issues after deadline
15:09:20 [pgroth]: ack smiles
15:09:26 [pgroth]: ack GK
15:09:26 [Zakim]: GK, you wanted to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed
15:09:29 [jcheney]: jcheney has joined #prov
15:09:35 [Zakim]: +??P12
15:09:46 [jcheney]: zakim, ??p12 is me
15:09:46 [Zakim]: +jcheney; got it
15:09:46 [smiles]: pgroth: should leave until after first draft, so we have a set we will resolve for that draft
15:10:18 [smiles]: GK: not reasonable to close the issue list, but end which issues will be in first draft
15:10:31 [Zakim]: + +1.518.276.aaii
15:10:50 [smiles]: pgroth: issues can be raised, but no more open issues for first draft after next week
15:11:09 [pgroth]: q?
15:11:09 [smiles]: ... editor can say issue is closed pending review
15:11:47 [smiles]: pgroth: Please sign up to scribe! especially for next week
15:11:59 [pgroth]: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/NameSuggestions
15:12:09 [satya]: satya has joined #prov
15:12:09 [smiles]: Topic: Name suggestions for standard (model/language)
15:12:16 [Luc]: Topic: Call for name suggestions
15:12:31 [smiles]: ... please go to site above to look at suggestions
15:12:55 [smiles]: ... add suggestions, next week we will have a straw poll on what the group likes
15:13:12 [smiles]: Topic: W3C Privacy Interest Group
15:13:44 [smiles]: Christine: W3C is proposing two new privacy-related groupPrivacy Interest Group
15:13:57 [Christine]: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/privacy-ig-charter
15:14:20 [smiles]: ... Privacy Interest Group and Tracking Protection Group
15:14:38 [Christine]: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter-draft
15:15:11 [smiles]: ... the privacy community may be one we are interested in talking to
15:15:54 [Zakim]: +wcandillon
15:15:59 [pgroth]: q?
15:16:00 [smiles]: ... might ask them to add our group to their charter, perhaps with regard to the agreed use of private data
15:16:36 [smiles]: pgroth: always useful to have connections to other WGs, just restricted by bandwidth of people in the group
15:16:50 [smiles]: ... anyone in privacy groups involved in our WG?
15:17:09 [GK]: q+ to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied
15:17:17 [smiles]: Christine: privacy groups not formed yet, but am considering asking to join
15:17:20 [pgroth]: ack GK
15:17:20 [Zakim]: GK, you wanted to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied
15:17:59 [smiles]: GK: is benefit at technical level, or maybe better at policy level, reinforcing user trust in systems?
15:18:17 [smiles]: (benefit of interaction of groups)
15:19:14 [smiles]: Christine: TP group will be very technical, but what is interesting about PIG for W3C is people with interest in both user and technical areas
15:19:40 [jorn]: jorn has joined #prov
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15:20:01 [smiles]: pgroth: if group gets formed, useful to know what we can do to advertise provenance WG work as it can help them
15:20:04 [Zakim]: +??P17
15:20:27 [GK]: (What's to object to?)
15:20:48 [smiles]: Topic: Update on provenance access document
15:21:07 [Zakim]: -wcandillon
15:21:15 [smiles]: GK: document now in version control repository
15:21:32 [Zakim]: +wcandillon
15:21:34 [smiles]: ... some issues raised, GK responding
15:21:41 [jorn]: zakim, ??p17 is me
15:21:41 [Zakim]: +jorn; got it
15:22:17 [smiles]: ... several editorial issues dealt with, but other issues require more discussion, including interaction of access mechanism and model
15:22:38 [khalidbelhajjame]: +q
15:22:44 [tlebo]: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/bc0bbf26efab/paq/provenance-access.html, right?
15:22:48 [pgroth]: ack khalid
15:23:05 [smiles]: khalid: is version on main page of WG Wiki the one circulated this morning?
15:23:37 [tlebo]: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts
15:23:39 [smiles]: GK: yes, should be the latest one
15:23:47 [tlebo]: refers to the "always latest" http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/provenance-access.html
15:23:58 [khalidbelhajjame]: -q
15:24:23 [Zakim]: -wcandillon
15:24:31 [smiles]: Topic: Provenance ontology
15:24:45 [pgroth]: Satya?
15:25:14 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's here?
15:25:14 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens, dgarijo, GK,
15:25:17 [Zakim]: ... +1.518.276.aahh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aaii, jorn
15:25:18 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Yogesh, jorn, satya, jcheney, GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimM, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc,
15:25:20 [Zakim]: ... Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:25:31 [satya]: a couple of mins - just joing again
15:25:46 [smiles]: pgroth: first draft of ontology, available on version control, plus brief document describing class hierarchy
15:26:03 [pgroth]: q?
15:26:12 [pgroth]: q?
15:26:14 [Luc]: q+
15:26:20 [pgroth]: ack Luc
15:27:13 [smiles]: Luc: some differences between ontology file and specification document, e.g. most concepts subclass of Bob in one document but not the other
15:27:14 [Zakim]: + +1.706.461.aajj
15:27:33 [smiles]: ... also, some differences with conceptual model, not sure how group should address these
15:28:16 [khalidbelhajjame]: Probably we can wait a bit until the model is stable, and most issues are resolved, before trying to check the consistency between the model and the OWL ontology
15:29:04 [smiles]: satya: HTML is most consistent version, OWL is under development taking into account capabilities of OWL
15:29:53 [smiles]: ... by definitions in conceptual model, process execution and agent are subclasses of BOB, so in HTML document, but am to raise this issue with conceptual model
15:30:23 [dgarijo]: +q
15:30:54 [smiles]: ... please fire issues regarding discrepancies of HTML specification of formal model and conceptual model
15:31:52 [dgarijo]: @Satya: I would like to help you in this task
15:31:54 [tlebo]: +q
15:31:59 [smiles]: ... met RPI people, to get help with editing document, ontology, visualising schema
15:32:03 [tlebo]: q+ I've volunteered
15:32:29 [khalidbelhajjame]: yes, I would like to help. I am not expert in OWL, but am ready to give it a go
15:32:34 [Zakim]: + +1.512.524.aakk
15:32:41 [smiles]: Luc: Paul and I will find co-editor for this document, probably from RPI (ACTION)
15:32:45 [pgroth]: ack dgarijo
15:32:59 [rgolden]: rgolden has joined #prov
15:33:29 [smiles]: dgarijo: sent issues by email about document, will raise
15:33:39 [smiles]: ... volunteers to help on formal semantics
15:33:47 [pgroth]: ack tlebo
15:33:48 [Luc]: Regrests: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier
15:33:49 [khalidbelhajjame]: Thanks Satya
15:33:53 [smiles]: satya: will contact those interested in helping on formal semantics
15:34:07 [pgroth]: Regrets: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier
15:34:15 [smiles]: tlebo: will help out in defining ontology, Deborah sent some guidance by email
15:34:16 [pgroth]: q?
15:34:18 [Yogesh]: zakim, +1.540 is me
15:34:18 [Zakim]: +Yogesh; got it
15:34:22 [tlebo]: q-
15:34:27 [pgroth]: ack sees I've
15:34:42 [pgroth]: q?
15:34:45 [smiles]: ack I've
15:34:50 [smiles]: ack volun
15:35:00 [smiles]: Topic: conceptual model
15:35:25 [smiles]: Luc: document released by Paolo and I, many issues raised, lots of discussion
15:35:31 [Zakim]: -jorn
15:35:38 [smiles]: ... some issues dealt with, hope to be able to close soon
15:35:55 [smiles]: ... over next week deal with others, then Paolo and I away for two weeks
15:36:12 [Zakim]: +??P17
15:36:16 [smiles]: pgroth: possible to get some core issues done, so satya can proceed?
15:36:46 [smiles]: Luc: by the time Paolo and I go away, hope to have reasonable set of concepts defined, possibly up to Role in the document
15:37:08 [smiles]: ... have these sections in a decent state
15:37:11 [GK]: I regret I haven't had time to review the provenance model doc properly yet, but when I do I'd like to draft a proposal to eliminate the Entity/BOB distinction.
15:37:31 [smiles]: ... not sure whether people have more issues to raise
15:38:13 [smiles]: Luc: need to decide on Entity/BOB soon
15:38:33 [smiles]: pgroth: get issues in my early next week, to ensure get somewhere before Luc, Paolo away
15:38:36 [pgroth]: issues up to 5.11
15:38:46 [smiles]: Topic: BOB
15:38:58 [ilkayaltintas]: ilkayaltintas has joined #prov
15:39:18 [pgroth]: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#bob
15:39:29 [smiles]: Luc: In Section 5.1, we have BOB concept, which is a construct of the language
15:39:42 [smiles]: ... no term called 'entity'
15:40:18 [smiles]: ... in text of document use term entity with natural language meaning, not defined as part of model
15:40:33 [satya]: satya has joined #prov
15:40:44 [smiles]: ... Need to decide 1. Have we got only one concept in the model?
15:40:51 [GK]: AH, OK, "BOB" is the new "Entity"
15:40:52 [smiles]: ... 2. What should we call it?
15:40:56 [pgroth]: q?
15:41:18 [smiles]: q+
15:41:31 [rgolden]: +1
15:41:34 [smiles]: Luc: question 1 may be translated to only one class in ontology
15:41:36 [GK]: +1 for only one [formal class] construct in the language
15:41:43 [pgroth]: ack smiles
15:41:57 [JimM]: +1
15:42:12 [khalidbelhajjame]: simon: agree that there is only one concept in the model
15:42:23 [smiles]: +1
15:42:29 [satya]: +1 agree with one concept and proposal for calling it entity
15:43:00 [tlebo]: +1 for Entity not a class in the model, Concept is a class.
15:43:00 [zednik]: +1 agree with one concept and call it entity
15:43:03 [smiles]: Luc: Jim McCusker has argued for two distinct concepts
15:43:13 [satya]: Jim McCusker is in a conference - may not be on the call
15:44:06 [smiles]: khalid: I believe the idea Jim was to allow us to be able to express that two BOBs characterise same entity
15:44:10 [JimM]: q+
15:44:14 [GK]: q+ to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment
15:44:38 [smiles]: ... I was supporting same but not include entity as a concept in the model
15:44:38 [Luc]: @GK, the draft makes this clear
15:45:10 [pgroth]: ack JimM
15:45:46 [smiles]: JimM: I think Jim McCusker is trying to distinguish between a thing and the document describing it
15:46:10 [smiles]: ... e.g. a URI for him, one for document describing him
15:46:17 [GK]: @Luc, I'm sure it does, but lacking time to do a proper review I haven't been aware of the change
15:46:50 [JimM]: q-
15:46:53 [pgroth]: ack GK
15:46:53 [Zakim]: GK, you wanted to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment
15:47:12 [Luc]: q+
15:47:19 [pgroth]: ack Luc
15:47:52 [smiles]: Luc: never had both BOB and entity, so having one will not be a change
15:47:52 [tlebo]: Entity vs. BOB - We can't write Entities down, we can only write down BOBs that can only scratch at describing the real physical or conceptual Entity
15:48:13 [pgroth]: q?
15:48:34 [rgolden]: the whiteboard was the source of my confusion
15:48:37 [smiles]: GK: recollects whiteboard with two columns
15:48:55 [StephenCresswell]: +1 for bobs only in model, if there's a way to identify the "top bob"
15:48:57 [rgolden]: but now realize that the left column on the whiteboard was not a first-class concept
15:49:12 [smiles]: Luc: right column was constructs in the language, left was term used informally
15:49:51 [smiles]: GK: when you say "represent" do you mean "denote"?
15:50:04 [khalidbelhajjame]: Stuff became Entity and Thing became Bob
15:50:06 [smiles]: Luc: please go back to document to see exact wording
15:50:15 [satya]: q+
15:50:35 [pgroth]: ack satya
15:51:22 [smiles]: satya: when considering provenance, we should not distinguish between what is in real world and our representation in an information system
15:51:26 [tlebo]: the whiteboard from F2F1 distinguishing Entities from BOBs http://twitpic.com/5x7oen/full
15:51:39 [Zakim]: -??P17
15:51:43 [smiles]: ... we should only be concerned with our constructs, so only one concept
15:51:45 [pgroth]: q?
15:52:06 [Zakim]: +??P17
15:52:24 [pgroth]: proposed: this is the Existence of a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:52:28 [satya]: +1
15:52:32 [smiles]: +1
15:52:37 [StephenCresswell]: +1
15:52:39 [dgarijo]: +1
15:52:40 [GK]: +1
15:52:40 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
15:52:41 [jcheney]: 0
15:52:42 [JimM]: +1
15:52:44 [Edoardo]: +1
15:52:50 [rgolden]: Phrased a bit oddly, but +1
15:52:53 [dcorsar]: +1
15:53:04 [Curt]: +1
15:53:07 [rgolden]: sure
15:53:10 [ilkayaltintas]: +1
15:53:20 [SamCoppens]: +1
15:53:22 [tlebo]: q+
15:53:33 [Luc]: q+
15:53:41 [rgolden]: proposed: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:53:43 [Luc]: ack luc
15:53:49 [zednik]: +1
15:53:59 [tlebo]: +1 (as long as "entity" is part of the description of pil:BOB
15:54:07 [satya]: +1
15:54:10 [smiles]: +1
15:54:10 [rgolden]: +1
15:54:12 [Curt]: +1
15:54:12 [GK]: +1
15:54:15 [Yogesh]: +1
15:54:19 [StephenCresswell]: +1
15:54:21 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1 (for both proposals :-)
15:54:29 [SamCoppens]: +1
15:54:38 [Edoardo]: +1
15:54:41 [dcorsar]: +1
15:54:56 [smiles]: Accepted: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:54:59 [dgarijo]: @tlebo: yes, it is used: "A BOB represents an identifiable characterized entity"
15:55:30 [smiles]: pgroth: What should we call BOB?
15:55:43 [pgroth]: Entity,
15:55:44 [pgroth]: Snapshot
15:55:44 [pgroth]: View
15:55:44 [pgroth]: Perspective
15:55:44 [pgroth]: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
15:55:59 [khalidbelhajjame]: EntitySnapshot
15:56:01 [rgolden]: Identifiable
15:56:04 [StephenCresswell]: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
15:56:07 [JimM]: resource :-)
15:56:12 [smiles]: Thing
15:56:13 [dgarijo]: EntityDescription?
15:56:17 [GK]: q+ to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?
15:56:29 [StephenCresswell]: Appearance
15:56:29 [pgroth]: ack tlebo
15:56:43 [pgroth]: ack GK
15:56:43 [Zakim]: GK, you wanted to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?
15:56:44 [Luc]: q+
15:56:48 [pgroth]: ack Luc
15:56:52 [smiles]: GK: is there anything to distinguish the concept from an RDF resource or OWL Thing?
15:56:55 [smiles]: Luc: yes and no
15:57:20 [smiles]: ... BOB's should be identifiable as with resource/Thing, but also list attributes and their values
15:57:20 [satya]: q+ to GK for clarifying his que
15:57:45 [tlebo]: BOBs are a very small subset of rdfs:Resource/owl:Thing; BOBs are only the things we've written down to describe entities.
15:57:47 [smiles]: ... Thing can be extended to have attributes, values
15:57:47 [JimM]: teh difference is by degree - we might want to look in more detail/shorter lived things, but I don't see a difference in kind
15:58:13 [smiles]: GK: resources and Things have attributes, just not required attributes
15:58:20 [pgroth]: ack satya
15:58:20 [Zakim]: satya, you wanted to GK for clarifying his que
15:58:24 [tlebo]: q+
15:58:47 [smiles]: satya: RDF resource and OWL Thing are different from each other
15:58:54 [GK]: My proposal is owl:Thing or rdf:Resource (areen't they the same in OWL full?)
15:59:26 [smiles]: tlebo: BOB's are only things we are writing down to describe entities in the real world
15:59:29 [GK]: I thoughts BOBs could be anything too
15:59:52 [smiles]: Luc: agree that BOB is subclass of RDF resource or OWL Thing
16:00:02 [smiles]: ... but can postpone this debate (use sameAs)
16:00:08 [pgroth]: Entity,
16:00:09 [pgroth]: Snapshot
16:00:09 [pgroth]: View
16:00:09 [pgroth]: Perspective
16:00:10 [pgroth]: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
16:00:10 [pgroth]: EntitySnapshot
16:00:11 [pgroth]: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
16:00:13 [pgroth]: resource
16:00:15 [pgroth]: Thing
16:00:17 [pgroth]: EntityDescription
16:00:19 [pgroth]: Appearance
16:00:31 [tlebo]: "writing down" in a very general sense. BOBs must exist in space time.
16:00:38 [rgolden]: Identifiable
16:00:41 [satya]: +1 for Entity
16:00:44 [pgroth]: Entity
16:00:47 [GK]: +1
16:00:48 [satya]: +1
16:00:48 [JimM]: +1
16:00:49 [smiles]: +1
16:00:49 [jcheney]: +1
16:00:49 [rgolden]: +1
16:00:50 [Curt]: +1
16:00:53 [Edoardo]: +1
16:00:54 [zednik]: +1
16:00:57 [dcorsar]: +1
16:00:58 [dgarijo]: +1
16:00:58 [Yogesh]: +1
16:00:59 [khalidbelhajjame]: 0 for Entity
16:01:05 [pgroth]: Snapshot
16:01:06 [ilkayaltintas]: +1
16:01:06 [jcheney]: (+1 for simoninireland who is here)
16:01:08 [GK]: -1
16:01:08 [satya]: -1
16:01:09 [JimM]: -1
16:01:10 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
16:01:11 [Yogesh]: +1
16:01:12 [Luc]: @rgolden, process executions are also identifiable but are not BOBs
16:01:14 [smiles]: -1
16:01:16 [SamCoppens]: +1
16:01:18 [dgarijo]: 0
16:01:18 [jcheney]: -1
16:01:22 [pgroth]: View
16:01:24 [satya]: -1
16:01:25 [GK]: -1
16:01:25 [smiles]: -1
16:01:26 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
16:01:26 [Yogesh]: -1
16:01:26 [Curt]: -1
16:01:27 [JimM]: -1
16:01:29 [zednik]: -1
16:01:30 [StephenCresswell]: +1
16:01:32 [dgarijo]: -1
16:01:32 [tlebo]: +1
16:01:38 [jcheney]: -1
16:01:40 [pgroth]: Perspective
16:01:42 [satya]: -1
16:01:43 [GK]: -1
16:01:43 [smiles]: -1
16:01:43 [Curt]: -1
16:01:43 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
16:01:43 [JimM]: -1
16:01:43 [jcheney]: -1
16:01:45 [Yogesh]: 0
16:01:46 [rgolden]: -1
16:01:49 [ilkayaltintas]: 0
16:01:50 [dgarijo]: 0
16:01:54 [SamCoppens]: 0
16:01:57 [dcorsar]: -1
16:01:59 [Edoardo]: -1
16:02:03 [pgroth]: InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
16:02:05 [satya]: -1
16:02:05 [zednik]: -1
16:02:06 [GK]: -1
16:02:06 [JimM]: 0
16:02:07 [rgolden]: -1
16:02:08 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:02:08 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:02:09 [smiles]: 0
16:02:09 [jcheney]: -1
16:02:11 [Edoardo]: -1
16:02:13 [dgarijo]: 0
16:02:13 [dcorsar]: -1
16:02:15 [Curt]: 0
16:02:17 [Yogesh]: 0
16:02:20 [pgroth]: EntitySnapshot
16:02:21 [satya]: -1
16:02:22 [GK]: -1
16:02:24 [smiles]: -1
16:02:24 [JimM]: -1
16:02:24 [Curt]: -1
16:02:24 [Yogesh]: +1
16:02:25 [ilkayaltintas]: -1
16:02:26 [rgolden]: -1
16:02:27 [jcheney]: -1
16:02:27 [khalidbelhajjame]: +1
16:02:30 [Edoardo]: -1
16:02:31 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:02:34 [dcorsar]: -1
16:02:40 [pgroth]: Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
16:02:42 [satya]: -1
16:02:45 [GK]: -1
16:02:47 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:02:47 [rgolden]: :) -1
16:02:47 [smiles]: -1
16:02:47 [Yogesh]: -1
16:02:49 [Curt]: -1
16:02:50 [ilkayaltintas]: -1 :)
16:02:52 [dgarijo]: -1
16:02:53 [jcheney]: -1
16:02:53 [Edoardo]: -1
16:02:54 [zednik]: :) -1
16:02:56 [dcorsar]: -1
16:02:56 [JimM]: :-), but -1
16:02:57 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:03:02 [pgroth]: resource
16:03:05 [satya]: -1
16:03:05 [GK]: +1
16:03:07 [smiles]: 0
16:03:08 [Curt]: +1
16:03:08 [Yogesh]: -1
16:03:09 [tlebo]: -1
16:03:09 [Edoardo]: 0
16:03:10 [dgarijo]: -1
16:03:11 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:03:11 [JimM]: +1
16:03:12 [rgolden]: 0
16:03:12 [ilkayaltintas]: 0
16:03:13 [MacTed]: -1
16:03:13 [jcheney]: 0
16:03:14 [dcorsar]: -1
16:03:15 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:03:18 [pgroth]: Thing
16:03:20 [satya]: -1
16:03:20 [GK]: +1
16:03:22 [smiles]: +1
16:03:22 [Yogesh]: -1
16:03:22 [ilkayaltintas]: -1
16:03:22 [tlebo]: -1
16:03:23 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:03:24 [JimM]: +1
16:03:25 [Edoardo]: 0
16:03:25 [Curt]: +1
16:03:25 [dgarijo]: -1
16:03:26 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:03:27 [rgolden]: 0
16:03:30 [dcorsar]: -1
16:03:32 [jcheney]: +1
16:03:35 [pgroth]: EntityDescription
16:03:36 [satya]: -1
16:03:39 [JimM]: -1
16:03:39 [Curt]: -1
16:03:39 [smiles]: -1
16:03:39 [jcheney]: -1
16:03:39 [rgolden]: -1
16:03:39 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:03:40 [Yogesh]: -1
16:03:40 [GK]: -1
16:03:41 [Edoardo]: -1
16:03:43 [dgarijo]: -1
16:03:43 [dcorsar]: -1
16:03:47 [khalidbelhajjame]: 0
16:03:51 [pgroth]: Appearance
16:03:55 [Yogesh]: -1
16:03:55 [GK]: -1
16:03:55 [JimM]: -1
16:03:56 [Curt]: -1
16:03:56 [satya]: -1
16:03:56 [rgolden]: -1
16:03:56 [smiles]: 0
16:03:56 [Edoardo]: -1
16:03:56 [dgarijo]: -1
16:03:57 [jcheney]: -1
16:03:57 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:03:57 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:03:57 [ilkayaltintas]: -1
16:03:59 [dcorsar]: -1
16:04:04 [zednik]: -1
16:04:25 [pgroth]: Identifiable
16:04:27 [Yogesh]: 0
16:04:27 [rgolden]: +1
16:04:29 [satya]: -1
16:04:29 [dgarijo]: 0
16:04:31 [SamCoppens]: -1
16:04:31 [khalidbelhajjame]: -1
16:04:31 [Edoardo]: 0
16:04:31 [Curt]: 0
16:04:33 [smiles]: 0
16:04:34 [tlebo]: 0
16:04:35 [dcorsar]: 0
16:04:35 [jcheney]: 0
16:04:35 [JimM]: 0
16:04:37 [GK]: 0/+1...?
16:05:04 [smiles]: pgroth: just a straw poll, but gives good indication
16:05:18 [Zakim]: -khalidbelhajjame
16:05:19 [Zakim]: -Yogesh
16:05:19 [Zakim]: - +1.512.524.aakk
16:05:20 [Zakim]: - +1.518.276.aaii
16:05:21 [Zakim]: - +1.518.276.aahh
16:05:21 [pgroth]: rrsagent, set log public
16:05:22 [Zakim]: -dgarijo
16:05:24 [Zakim]: -Luc
16:05:26 [Zakim]: -jcheney
16:05:28 [Zakim]: -??P68
16:05:30 [pgroth]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:30 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
16:05:30 [Zakim]: -SamCoppens
16:05:32 [Zakim]: -GK
16:05:35 [pgroth]: trackbot, end telcon
16:05:35 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:05:36 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:36 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:05:36 [Zakim]: -MacTed
16:05:37 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
16:05:37 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items
16:05:38 [Zakim]: -??P17