Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 12 May 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12
Seen
Carl Reed, Daniel Garijo, David Corsar, Graham Klyne, Helena Deus, Iker Huerga, Ilkay Altintas, James Frew, Jun Zhao, Jörn Hees, Kai Eckert, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Martin Doerr, Olaf Hartig, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Sam Coppens, Sandro Hawke, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Simon Dobson, Stephan Zednik, Timothy Lebo, Unknown Jeff_Pan, Vinh Nguyen, david schaengold
Guests
Paolo Missier, Satya Sahoo
Regrets
Jörn Hees, Ilkay Altintas
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Daniel Garijo
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. use data journalism example for discussion link
  2. objectives for F2F1 link
Topics
  1. Admin

    1. Minutes Approval

      Minutes of last week's meeting were approved

    2. Action items

      There was no action

    3. Invited Experts

      Most invitations sent out, a few outstanding, but email discussions in progress

    4. Scribing

      Please volunteer to scribe

  2. Discussion Example

    Data journalism example was accepted to discuss provenance concepts

  3. F2F 1

    1. Logistics

      Book your hotel (note proximity to July 4th) and indicate your attendance

    2. F2F1 objectives

      The F2F1 objectives were accepted

  4. Concepts Illustration

    1. Example discussion

      Some suggestions were made to improve the data journalism example. It was indicated that these suggestions should be followed by an email and discussion on the mailing list. It was felt that the example should remain simple, and should not be stretched to accommodate all provenance use cases. If the need arises, other examples will be developed in a similar manner.

    2. Concept illustration

      Illustrations were circulated during the week. Concepts illustrations should initially be discussed over email.

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<luc> Guest: Paolo (paolo_) Missier
<luc> Guest: Satya Sahoo
14:45:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-irc

14:45:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:45:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:45:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:45:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:45:20 <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2011
14:45:41 <luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:45:41 <Zakim> ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

14:46:17 <luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12
14:46:24 <luc> Chair: luc
14:46:38 <luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:47:25 <luc> Regrets: Jörn Hees, Ilkay Altintas
14:50:27 <luc> Scribe: dgarijo

(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)

14:50:45 <dgarijo> hi all

hi all

14:50:53 <luc> Hi daniel, everything is set up for you.

Luc Moreau: Hi daniel, everything is set up for you.

14:51:02 <dgarijo> thanks!

thanks!

14:52:49 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:52:57 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

14:53:19 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen

Zakim IRC Bot: +VinhNguyen

14:53:20 <Zakim> +??P39

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P39

14:54:17 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

14:54:22 <pgroth> Zakim, +??P20 is pgroth

Paul Groth: Zakim, +??P20 is pgroth

14:54:22 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+??P20'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+??P20'

14:54:33 <pgroth> Zakim, P20 is pgroth

Paul Groth: Zakim, P20 is pgroth

14:54:33 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'

14:54:35 <dgarijo> zakim, ??P3 is me

zakim, ??P3 is me

14:54:35 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

14:54:44 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P20 is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P20 is me

14:54:44 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:54:58 <pgroth> Zakim, mute me

Paul Groth: Zakim, mute me

14:54:58 <Zakim> pgroth should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth should now be muted

14:55:10 <pgroth> Zakim, umute me

Paul Groth: Zakim, umute me

14:55:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute me', pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'umute me', pgroth

14:55:17 <pgroth> Zakim, unmute me

Paul Groth: Zakim, unmute me

14:55:17 <Zakim> pgroth should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth should no longer be muted

14:55:39 <luc> I am struggling to get through. Anybody got problem?

Luc Moreau: I am struggling to get through. Anybody got problem?

14:55:47 <dgarijo> not at all

not at all

14:55:57 <dgarijo> i dialed through skype

i dialed through skype

14:56:00 <GK> I'm hearing things, not sure anyone hears me.

Graham Klyne: I'm hearing things, not sure anyone hears me.

14:56:15 <GK> zakim, help

Graham Klyne: zakim, help

14:56:15 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

Zakim IRC Bot: Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

14:56:18 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:

Zakim IRC Bot: Some of the commands I know are:

14:56:19 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:21 <dgarijo> zakim, who is making noise

zakim, who is making noise

14:56:22 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

Zakim IRC Bot: if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

14:56:24 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:27 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:30 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

14:56:30 <luc> got in

Luc Moreau: got in

14:56:32 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

14:56:34 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone

Zakim IRC Bot: who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

14:56:36 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted

Zakim IRC Bot: who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

14:56:39 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

Zakim IRC Bot: mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

14:56:42 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

Zakim IRC Bot: unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

14:56:44 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

Zakim IRC Bot: is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

14:56:47 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences

Zakim IRC Bot: list conferences - reports the active conferences

14:56:49 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

14:56:51 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel

Zakim IRC Bot: excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

14:56:53 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2011/05/17 21:55:23 $

Zakim IRC Bot: I last learned something new on $Date: 2011/05/17 21:55:23 $

14:56:53 <luc> who's here

Luc Moreau: who's here

14:56:54 <Zakim> +luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +luc

14:56:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is making noise', dgarijo

14:56:56 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

14:57:54 <luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

14:57:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, ??P39, dgarijo, luc, ??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, ??P39, dgarijo, luc, ??P18

14:57:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, administrator, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, administrator, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

14:59:08 <GK> zakim, i am ??p39

Graham Klyne: zakim, i am ??p39

14:59:08 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

14:59:32 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

14:59:35 <GK> zakim, who is making noise

Graham Klyne: zakim, who is making noise

14:59:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', GK

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is making noise', GK

14:59:43 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaaa

14:59:43 <dgarijo> wooow!

wooow!

14:59:57 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

15:00:19 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Jeff_Pan

15:00:21 <sandro> zakim, call Thomas-781

Sandro Hawke: zakim, call Thomas-781

15:00:21 <Zakim> ok, sandro; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; the call is being made

15:00:22 <Zakim> +Thomas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Thomas

15:00:23 <Zakim> +olaf

Zakim IRC Bot: +olaf

15:00:33 <Zakim> + +44.191.245.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.191.245.aabb

15:00:51 <Zakim> +??P43

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P43

15:00:54 <sandro> zakim, Thomas-781 is temporarily Sandro

Sandro Hawke: zakim, Thomas-781 is temporarily Sandro

15:00:54 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Thomas-781'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Thomas-781'

15:01:01 <sandro> zakim, Thomas is temporarily Sandro

Sandro Hawke: zakim, Thomas is temporarily Sandro

15:01:01 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro; got it

15:01:04 <kai> zakim, ??P43 is me

Kai Eckert: zakim, ??P43 is me

15:01:04 <Zakim> +kai; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kai; got it

15:01:05 <GK> zakim, who is talking

Graham Klyne: zakim, who is talking

15:01:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', GK

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', GK

15:01:11 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.389.aacc

15:01:21 <GK> zakim, who is talking?

Graham Klyne: zakim, who is talking?

15:01:28 <Zakim> +??P46

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46

15:01:31 <Zakim> GK, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (21%), GK (10%)

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (21%), GK (10%)

15:01:36 <Zakim> +??P45

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45

15:01:53 <jun> zakim, ?P45 is jun

Jun Zhao: zakim, ?P45 is jun

15:01:53 <Zakim> sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '?P45'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '?P45'

15:01:56 <Zakim> + +329331aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aadd

15:02:05 <jun> zakim, ??P45 is jun

Jun Zhao: zakim, ??P45 is jun

15:02:07 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

15:02:10 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +SatyaSahoo

15:02:13 <GK> zakim, i am ?p20

Graham Klyne: zakim, i am ?p20

15:02:13 <Zakim> sorry, GK, I do not see a party named '?p20'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, GK, I do not see a party named '?p20'

15:02:16 <paolo_> zakim, who is on the phone?

Paolo Missier: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, +44.191.245.aabb, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, +44.191.245.aabb, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun,

15:02:19 <Zakim> ... +329331aadd, SatyaSahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +329331aadd, SatyaSahoo

15:02:22 <Zakim> + +30281039aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +30281039aaee

15:02:33 <pgroth> Zakim, GK is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, GK is me

15:02:35 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:02:41 <Zakim> - +44.191.245.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.191.245.aabb

15:02:43 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone?

Paul Groth: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun, +329331aadd,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun, +329331aadd,

15:02:50 <Zakim> ... SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee

15:02:54 <pgroth> Zakim, GK is pgroth

Paul Groth: Zakim, GK is pgroth

15:03:05 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'GK'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'GK'

15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

15:03:23 <pgroth> Zakim, pgroth is GK

Paul Groth: Zakim, pgroth is GK

15:03:24 <Zakim> + +44.191.245.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.191.245.aaff

15:03:24 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

15:03:26 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aadd is SamCoppens

Sam Coppens: zakim, +329331aadd is SamCoppens

15:03:26 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

15:03:29 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P22 is really me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P22 is really me

15:03:31 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it

15:03:33 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

15:03:52 <DavidSchaengold> zakim, +1.646.389.aacc is DavidSchaengold

david schaengold: zakim, +1.646.389.aacc is DavidSchaengold

15:03:52 <Zakim> +DavidSchaengold; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +DavidSchaengold; got it

15:03:53 <Zakim> +paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: +paulo

15:03:56 <paolo_> zakim, +44.191.245.aaff is me

Paolo Missier: zakim, +44.191.245.aaff is me

15:03:56 <Zakim> +paolo_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo_; got it

15:04:16 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:04:29 <smiles> zakim, ??P1 is me

Simon Miles: zakim, ??P1 is me

15:04:30 <dgarijo> Luc: Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

Luc Moreau: Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

<luc> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

<luc> Subtopic: Minutes Approval

1.1. Minutes Approval

Summary: Minutes of last week's meeting were approved

15:04:35 <Zakim> +smiles; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it

15:05:13 <luc>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-05

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-05

15:05:30 <Satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:05:31 <pgroth> +1

Paul Groth: +1

15:05:34 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:05:34 <paolo_> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:05:36 <iker> +1

Iker Huerga: +1

15:05:37 <dgarijo> Luc: support to the minutes of the last call

Luc Moreau: support to the minutes of the last call

15:05:38 <lebo-rpi> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:05:38 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:05:39 <dgarijo> +1

+1

15:05:41 <kai> +1

Kai Eckert: +1

15:05:42 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:05:44 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1

15:05:44 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:05:46 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:05:48 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1

15:05:48 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1

15:05:51 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:05:56 <simoninireland> I sent my apologies -- don't know if you want to record that. Otherwise +1

Simon Dobson: I sent my apologies -- don't know if you want to record that. Otherwise +1

15:06:00 <CarlOGC> +1

Carl Reed: +1

15:06:35 <dgarijo> the agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

the agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

15:06:51 <pgroth> minutes were accepted

Paul Groth: minutes were accepted

<luc> Summary: Minutes of last week's meeting were approved
<luc> Subtopic: Action items

1.2. Action items

Summary: There was no action

15:06:52 <dgarijo> Luc: no actions on the last call

Luc Moreau: no actions on the last call

<luc> Summary: There was no action
<luc> Subtopic: Invited Experts

1.3. Invited Experts

Summary: Most invitations sent out, a few outstanding, but email discussions in progress

15:07:01 <dgarijo> ... updates on membership

... updates on membership

<luc> Summary: Most invitations sent out, a few outstanding, but email discussions in progress
15:08:14 <dgarijo> Satya: problems with logging on the wiki page to post updates to the provenance example

Satya Sahoo: problems with logging on the wiki page to post updates to the provenance example

<luc> Subtopic: Scribing

1.4. Scribing

Summary: Please volunteer to scribe

15:08:43 <dgarijo> Luc: volunteers for scribbing are required

Luc Moreau: volunteers for scribbing are required

15:08:47 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes

15:09:17 <dgarijo> ... everyone should update their nicknames

... everyone should update their nicknames

15:09:17 <VinhNguyen> +1

Vinh Nguyen: +1

15:09:29 <dgarijo> ... to facilitate the work on the wiki /telecons

... to facilitate the work on the wiki /telecons

<luc> Summary: Please volunteer to scribe
<luc> Topic: Discussion Example

2. Discussion Example

Summary: Data journalism example was accepted to discuss provenance concepts

15:09:32 <luc>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0012.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0012.html

15:10:02 <dgarijo> ... Provenance concepts and Paul example

... Provenance concepts and Paul example

15:10:17 <Zakim> +Lena

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lena

15:10:18 <dgarijo> ... discussion started by email during the week

... discussion started by email during the week

15:10:35 <dgarijo> ... small subset of the group participating

... small subset of the group participating

15:10:38 <paolo_> Luc, I am not yet a member and I am not on the list...

Paolo Missier: Luc, I am not yet a member and I am not on the list...

15:10:51 <dgarijo> ...any feedback on the example from others?

...any feedback on the example from others?

15:11:00 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample

15:11:10 <Satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

15:11:17 <luc> ack Satya

Luc Moreau: ack Satya

15:11:24 <dgarijo> ... before to moving to more complicate discussions, we should agree on whether is a good example or not

... before to moving to more complicate discussions, we should agree on whether is a good example or not

15:11:46 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:11:53 <luc> ack paulo

Luc Moreau: ack paulo

15:12:28 <luc> zakim, who is making noise?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is making noise?

15:12:39 <Zakim> luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paulo (63%), luc (19%), GK (29%), VinhNguyen (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paulo (63%), luc (19%), GK (29%), VinhNguyen (4%)

15:13:05 <dgarijo> Paulo: could we remove the previous example to avoid confusion?

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: could we remove the previous example to avoid confusion?

15:13:18 <GK> I think the example is fine as a starting point for discussion, I expect it won't represent the totality of requirements.  AM worried about getting bogged down in tech details before user requirements have been elicited.

Graham Klyne: I think the example is fine as a starting point for discussion, I expect it won't represent the totality of requirements. AM worried about getting bogged down in tech details before user requirements have been elicited.

15:14:09 <dgarijo> Luc: happy to remove it. However the previous example is mentioned in the minutes that we have just approved

Luc Moreau: happy to remove it. However the previous example is mentioned in the minutes that we have just approved

15:14:17 <GK> Cool URIs... better to add a health warning?

Graham Klyne: Cool URIs... better to add a health warning?

15:15:00 <Zakim> +[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI]

15:15:06 <dgarijo> Paulo: Had comments about the previous example, but now is happier with the new one.

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: Had comments about the previous example, but now is happier with the new one.

15:15:20 <dgarijo> Paulo: should I post the old comments?

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: should I post the old comments?

15:16:05 <dgarijo> Luc: The current example is being edited with the discussions, it is a live document.

Luc Moreau: The current example is being edited with the discussions, it is a live document.

15:16:23 <luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

15:16:28 <luc> ack luc

Luc Moreau: ack luc

15:16:30 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:16:34 <GK> q+, to suggest not removing previous example but adding an note to old example

Graham Klyne: q+, to suggest not removing previous example but adding an note to old example

15:16:47 <GK> q+ to suggest not removing previous example but adding an note to old example

Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest not removing previous example but adding an note to old example

<luc>POST Meeting editing:

Luc Moreau: POST Meeting editing:

<luc>Warning was added at the beginning  of http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1#Provenance_Concepts_and_Example

Luc Moreau: Warning was added at the beginning of http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1#Provenance_Concepts_and_Example

15:17:15 <dgarijo> Luc: We agreed in the last telecon that we would use an example  that would be technology agnostic

Luc Moreau: We agreed in the last telecon that we would use an example that would be technology agnostic

15:17:20 <dgarijo> Paulo: agrees

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: agrees

15:17:30 <smiles> +1 it seems to me an appropriate example which matches vision outlined in the wg charter

Simon Miles: +1 it seems to me an appropriate example which matches vision outlined in the wg charter

15:17:34 <Satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1

15:17:35 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:17:36 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1

15:17:38 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1

15:17:38 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1

15:17:39 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1

15:17:39 <luc> PROPOSED: use data journalism example for discussion

PROPOSED: use data journalism example for discussion

15:17:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:17:43 <lebo-rpi> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:17:43 <frew> q+

James Frew: q+

15:17:44 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:17:44 <dgarijo> Luc: proposes the journalist example as main starting point for discussions

Luc Moreau: proposes the journalist example as main starting point for discussions

15:17:44 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:17:46 <dgarijo> +1

+1

15:17:47 <kai> +1

Kai Eckert: +1

15:17:49 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:17:53 <GK> +1 accept data journo example for discussion

Graham Klyne: +1 accept data journo example for discussion

15:17:59 <paulo> +1 (for .../ProvenanceExample)

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: +1 (for .../ProvenanceExample)

15:18:01 <paolo_> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:18:02 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:18:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

15:18:06 <Zakim> ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI]

15:18:24 <luc> ACCEPTED: use data journalism example for discussion

RESOLVED: use data journalism example for discussion

<luc> Summary: Data journalism example was accepted to discuss provenance concepts
<luc> TOPIC: F2F 1

3. F2F 1

<luc> Subtopic: Logistics

3.1. Logistics

Summary: Book your hotel (note proximity to July 4th) and indicate your attendance

15:19:14 <dgarijo> Luc: F2F meeting (we will be back to the example later, to discuss changes)

Luc Moreau: F2F meeting (we will be back to the example later, to discuss changes)

15:19:22 <luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1

15:19:46 <dgarijo> ... from logistic point of view, the wikipage describes the event. Suggestions?

... from logistic point of view, the wikipage describes the event. Suggestions?

15:20:16 <dgarijo> ... please update the page saying if you'll be able to attend

... please update the page saying if you'll be able to attend

<luc> Summary: Book your hotel (note proximity to July 4th) and indicate your attendance
<luc> Subtopic: F2F1 objectives

3.2. F2F1 objectives

Summary: The F2F1 objectives were accepted

15:20:11 <luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:20:33 <dgarijo> ... what are we planning to achieve in the meeting?

... what are we planning to achieve in the meeting?

15:21:26 <dgarijo> ... sent an email with a number of issues. Can we achieve them?

... sent an email with a number of issues. Can we achieve them?

15:21:27 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:21:32 <dgarijo> ... are they realistic?

... are they realistic?

15:21:56 <luc> ack pgroth.a

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth.a

15:21:56 <Zakim> pgroth.a, you wanted to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth.a, you wanted to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example

15:22:10 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:22:18 <luc> ack frew

Luc Moreau: ack frew

15:22:42 <dgarijo> frew: any of the documents discussed should be linked to the main wiki page

James Frew: any of the documents discussed should be linked to the main wiki page

15:22:52 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:22:54 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:22:54 <dgarijo> Luc: I agree

Luc Moreau: I agree

15:22:57 <martin> i have a question

Martin Doerr: i have a question

15:23:26 <dgarijo> martin: should we include in the example some empirical data capture?

Martin Doerr: should we include in the example some empirical data capture?

15:23:45 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:23:51 <pgroth> we will come back to the example in a bit

Paul Groth: we will come back to the example in a bit

15:24:01 <dgarijo> martin: would be good to include some data that come to an observation

Martin Doerr: would be good to include some data that come to an observation

15:24:21 <dgarijo> martin: also the material circumpstances of the photo capture

Martin Doerr: also the material circumpstances of the photo capture

15:24:34 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+

15:24:39 <dgarijo> Luc: we'll be back to the example in a bit, first the f2f objectives

Luc Moreau: we'll be back to the example in a bit, first the f2f objectives

15:24:48 <dgarijo> martin: ok

Martin Doerr: ok

15:25:01 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:25:19 <pgroth> ack

Paul Groth: ack

15:25:24 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:25:33 <luc> ACTION to pgroth: add links to example

Luc Moreau: ACTION to pgroth: add links to example

15:25:33 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - to

15:25:52 <dgarijo> smiles: don't really understand the objectives on task force 4?

Simon Miles: don't really understand the objectives on task force 4?

15:25:58 <pgroth> ACTION pgroth: add links to example

Paul Groth: ACTION pgroth: add links to example

15:25:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Add links to example [on Paul Groth - due 2011-05-19].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-3 - Add links to example [on Paul Groth - due 2011-05-19].

15:26:10 <GK> q+ TO SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

Graham Klyne: q+ TO SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

15:26:22 <pgroth> Zakim, pgroth.a is GK

Paul Groth: Zakim, pgroth.a is GK

15:26:22 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

15:26:29 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:26:39 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:26:44 <luc> ack smiles

Luc Moreau: ack smiles

15:26:52 <dgarijo> Luc: implement examples for the specification. Identify people, apps and the use of provenance

Luc Moreau: implement examples for the specification. Identify people, apps and the use of provenance

15:26:56 <luc> ack pgroth.a

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth.a

15:26:56 <Zakim> pgroth.a, you wanted to SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth.a, you wanted to SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

15:26:57 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

15:27:10 <luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:27:12 <dgarijo> GK: can't see the goals in the f2f page

Graham Klyne: can't see the goals in the f2f page

15:27:28 <olaf> q+

Olaf Hartig: q+

15:27:40 <olaf> how would the 1st objective for the Provenance Access and Query Task Force differ from Sec.6 in the prov-xg final report?

Olaf Hartig: how would the 1st objective for the Provenance Access and Query Task Force differ from Sec.6 in the prov-xg final report?

15:27:50 <luc> That's what the TF has to decide (before the F2F)

Luc Moreau: That's what the TF has to decide (before the F2F)

15:28:17 <olaf> q-

Olaf Hartig: q-

15:28:18 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:28:26 <paolo_> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:28:36 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:29:11 <dgarijo> GK: 3 first objectives look good, but aren't these early days for implementation?

Graham Klyne: 3 first objectives look good, but aren't these early days for implementation?

15:29:35 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:29:46 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:30:21 <luc> ack paolo_

Luc Moreau: ack paolo_

15:30:43 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:30:44 <paolo_> ack

Paolo Missier: ack

15:31:09 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:31:10 <GK> q+ to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

Graham Klyne: q+ to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

15:31:29 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:31:48 <dgarijo> paolo: new requiriments won't be handled by this example

Paolo Missier: new requiriments won't be handled by this example

15:31:56 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aagg

15:32:03 <dgarijo> paolo:  are we developing new examples?

Paolo Missier: are we developing new examples?

15:32:05 <luc> ack GK

Luc Moreau: ack GK

15:32:05 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

15:32:21 <Satya> I also agree with Paolo

Satya Sahoo: I also agree with Paolo

15:32:29 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:32:38 <dgarijo> GK: the new example is a starting point

Graham Klyne: the new example is a starting point

15:32:54 <pgroth> we don't want to implement anything

Paul Groth: we don't want to implement anything

15:32:57 <pgroth> amen to that!

Paul Groth: amen to that!

15:33:24 <dgarijo> paulo: are going to provide guidelines in terms of implementation

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: are going to provide guidelines in terms of implementation

15:33:31 <GK> q+ to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

Graham Klyne: q+ to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

15:33:42 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:33:44 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:33:59 <luc> ack GK

Luc Moreau: ack GK

15:33:59 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

15:34:07 <luc> ack paulo

Luc Moreau: ack paulo

15:34:11 <dgarijo> GK: we need more than 1 implementation

Graham Klyne: we need more than 1 implementation

15:34:11 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:34:20 <sandro> +1 GK

Sandro Hawke: +1 GK

15:34:33 <paolo_> @GK: what is "interoperate" in this context?

Paolo Missier: @GK: what is "interoperate" in this context?

15:34:46 <dgarijo> GK: the standard has to prove that is better that independent implementations

Graham Klyne: the standard has to prove that is better that independent implementations

15:34:49 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:35:19 <dgarijo> sandro: agrees with GK. Really try to make sure is something that people can use

Sandro Hawke: agrees with GK. Really try to make sure is something that people can use

15:35:21 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:35:27 <luc> ack pgroth

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth

15:36:20 <dgarijo> GK: test cases can be very useful here

Graham Klyne: test cases can be very useful here

15:36:21 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the objectives for F2F1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

PROPOSED: to accept the objectives for F2F1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:36:34 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:36:37 <dgarijo> +1

+1

15:36:38 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:36:39 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:36:39 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:36:40 <olaf> +1

Olaf Hartig: +1

15:36:40 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:36:40 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:36:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1

15:36:43 <simoninireland> +1

Simon Dobson: +1

15:36:48 <DavidSchaengold> +1

david schaengold: +1

15:36:49 <paolo_> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:36:52 <martin> +1

Martin Doerr: +1

15:37:01 <luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:37:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

15:37:04 <Zakim> ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg

15:37:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see JimMyers, YolandaGil, Lena, zednik, iker, CarlOGC, paulo, SamCoppens, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, frew, Satya, kai, Christine, DavidSchaengold, dcorsar, olaf,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JimMyers, YolandaGil, Lena, zednik, iker, CarlOGC, paulo, SamCoppens, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, frew, Satya, kai, Christine, DavidSchaengold, dcorsar, olaf,

15:37:08 <Zakim> ... jun, lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, martin, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... jun, lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, martin, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

15:37:20 <kai> +1

Kai Eckert: +1

15:37:21 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:37:22 <VinhNguyen> +1

Vinh Nguyen: +1

15:37:27 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:37:27 <frew> +1

James Frew: +1

15:37:44 <iker> +1

Iker Huerga: +1

15:37:53 <dgarijo> paulo: i would like to see how much time are we going to dedicate for the tasks

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: i would like to see how much time are we going to dedicate for the tasks

15:38:11 <paolo_> I was assuming the task forces would report to the F2F for a plenary discussion?!

Paolo Missier: I was assuming the task forces would report to the F2F for a plenary discussion?!

15:38:18 <dgarijo> ... in the f2f meeting

... in the f2f meeting

15:38:32 <dgarijo> Luc: it will be driven by the objectives

Luc Moreau: it will be driven by the objectives

15:39:30 <dgarijo> Luc: I will set up an agenda to divide the time for each of the tf

Luc Moreau: I will set up an agenda to divide the time for each of the tf

15:39:33 <Satya> +1 (except not sure about the Implementation and Test Cases Task Force objectives)

Satya Sahoo: +1 (except not sure about the Implementation and Test Cases Task Force objectives)

15:40:10 <dgarijo> Luc: not intended to do the whole work in the f2f

Luc Moreau: not intended to do the whole work in the f2f

15:40:21 <dgarijo> Luc: it will be the agreement in terminology

Luc Moreau: it will be the agreement in terminology

15:40:33 <GK> +1 to say I think that having common terminology is vital goal

Graham Klyne: +1 to say I think that having common terminology is vital goal

15:40:36 <dgarijo> Luc: we have to do a lot of discussion in between

Luc Moreau: we have to do a lot of discussion in between

15:40:47 <dgarijo> paulo: supports the objectives

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: supports the objectives

15:40:51 <paolo_> +1 to Luc: most of the work to be done before we get to the meeting

Paolo Missier: +1 to Luc: most of the work to be done before we get to the meeting

15:41:01 <paolo_> s/must/most

Paolo Missier: s/must/most (warning: replacement failed)

15:41:06 <luc> ACCEPTED: objectives for F2F1

RESOLVED: objectives for F2F1

<luc> Summary: The F2F1 objectives were accepted
<luc> Topic: Concepts Illustration

4. Concepts Illustration

<luc>Subtopic: Example discussion

4.1. Example discussion

Summary: Some suggestions were made to improve the data journalism example. It was indicated that these suggestions should be followed by an email and discussion on the mailing list. It was felt that the example should remain simple, and should not be stretched to accommodate all provenance use cases. If the need arises, other examples will be developed in a similar manner.

15:41:49 <dgarijo> Luc: some of you have suggestions to improve the example

Luc Moreau: some of you have suggestions to improve the example

15:42:05 <dgarijo> Luc: useful to hear a short outline of them in the call

Luc Moreau: useful to hear a short outline of them in the call

15:42:06 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:42:13 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:42:32 <martin> q+

Martin Doerr: q+

15:42:37 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:43:14 <dgarijo> paulo: can not discuss properly because of the time of the mail discussions

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: can not discuss properly because of the time of the mail discussions

15:43:26 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:04 <dgarijo> Luc: discussion starts from the ending of the telecon

Luc Moreau: discussion starts from the ending of the telecon

15:44:19 <dgarijo> Luc: we should not wait till last minute to raise discussions

Luc Moreau: we should not wait till last minute to raise discussions

15:44:47 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:44:51 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:56 <smiles> Maybe it has been difficult this past week because of the invited experts only just being included

Simon Miles: Maybe it has been difficult this past week because of the invited experts only just being included

15:45:08 <luc> ack paulo

Luc Moreau: ack paulo

15:45:56 <luc> ack sandro

Luc Moreau: ack sandro

15:45:58 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:45:59 <GK> If substantive discussions and key consensus forming takes place in email, rather than in telecon, then timezone matters less.

Graham Klyne: If substantive discussions and key consensus forming takes place in email, rather than in telecon, then timezone matters less.

15:46:33 <dgarijo> Luc: the point on mail discussions is to achieve consensus

Luc Moreau: the point on mail discussions is to achieve consensus

15:46:34 <luc> ack martin

Luc Moreau: ack martin

15:46:54 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:47:09 <dgarijo> martin: proposes to use provenance info from measurements observations

Martin Doerr: proposes to use provenance info from measurements observations

15:47:33 <lebo-rpi> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

15:47:34 <dgarijo> martin: vital for scientists to understand the circumstances of the measure

Martin Doerr: vital for scientists to understand the circumstances of the measure

15:47:54 <GK> q+ to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

Graham Klyne: q+ to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

15:48:00 <dgarijo> ... the location of the picture on the example, by who

... the location of the picture on the example, by who

15:48:02 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:48:08 <dgarijo> Luc: good extension

Luc Moreau: good extension

15:48:13 <simoninireland> q+

Simon Dobson: q+

15:48:18 <dgarijo> Luc: plase mail  it to the mailing list

Luc Moreau: plase mail it to the mailing list

15:48:24 <pgroth> i think it's good

Paul Groth: i think it's good

15:48:29 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:48:38 <luc> ack lebo-rpi

Luc Moreau: ack lebo-rpi

15:49:00 <martin> q+

Martin Doerr: q+

15:49:13 <Satya>  I agree with martin, we have a relevant paper for provenance of sensor readings: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/SPOT-Provenance_Aware_LSD.pdf

Satya Sahoo: I agree with martin, we have a relevant paper for provenance of sensor readings: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/SPOT-Provenance_Aware_LSD.pdf

15:49:16 <dgarijo> lebo-rpi: extension to what the newspaper was doing incorporating information from various sources.

Timothy Lebo: extension to what the newspaper was doing incorporating information from various sources.

15:49:34 <dgarijo> ... for example another charter

... for example another charter

15:49:44 <Satya> +1 for lebo

Satya Sahoo: +1 for lebo

15:49:55 <Satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

15:50:07 <dgarijo> ... having multiple sources in the same graph

... having multiple sources in the same graph

15:50:13 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:50:18 <pgroth> this could integrate well with martin's proposal

Paul Groth: this could integrate well with martin's proposal

15:50:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +q

Khalid Belhajjame: +q

15:50:23 <dgarijo> Luc: great, send a mil also

Luc Moreau: great, send a mil also

15:50:41 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:50:41 <lebo-rpi> +1 on keeping this example simple

Timothy Lebo: +1 on keeping this example simple

15:50:58 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:50:59 <dgarijo> GK: not sure if this is the best way to handle the example. We should introduce more scenarios

Graham Klyne: not sure if this is the best way to handle the example. We should introduce more scenarios

15:51:08 <paolo_> +1 for multiple simple scenarios -- or at least make it modular

Paolo Missier: +1 for multiple simple scenarios -- or at least make it modular

15:51:10 <luc> ack GK

Luc Moreau: ack GK

15:51:10 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

15:51:12 <kai> +1

Kai Eckert: +1

15:51:19 <martin> q+

Martin Doerr: q+

15:51:19 <pgroth> +1

Paul Groth: +1

15:51:23 <lebo-rpi> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

15:51:34 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:51:44 <dgarijo> zakim, whi is speaking?

zakim, whi is speaking?

15:51:44 <Zakim> sorry, dgarijo, I do not understand your question

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dgarijo, I do not understand your question

15:51:52 <dgarijo> zakim, who is speaking?

zakim, who is speaking?

15:51:54 <pgroth> so far this doesn't seem to bad...

Paul Groth: so far this doesn't seem to bad...

15:52:04 <Zakim> dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeff_Pan (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeff_Pan (9%)

15:52:14 <zednik> +1 for multiple focused scenarios

Stephan Zednik: +1 for multiple focused scenarios

15:52:33 <pgroth> these extensions don't look to bad

Paul Groth: these extensions don't look to bad

15:52:41 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:52:42 <GK> I'm happy with this

Graham Klyne: I'm happy with this

15:52:44 <martin> +1

Martin Doerr: +1

15:52:57 <dgarijo> Luc: we will decide on the mailing list whether we should add new scenarios or simple extensions

Luc Moreau: we will decide on the mailing list whether we should add new scenarios or simple extensions

15:52:58 <frew> rapid progress on n simple examples > slow progress on 1 complex example

James Frew: rapid progress on n simple examples > slow progress on 1 complex example

15:53:05 <luc> ack simoninireland

Luc Moreau: ack simoninireland

15:53:10 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:53:23 <luc> ack martin

Luc Moreau: ack martin

15:53:37 <dgarijo> martin: in general the provenance problem is a highly interconnected graph

Martin Doerr: in general the provenance problem is a highly interconnected graph

15:53:48 <paulo> q+

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: q+

15:53:50 <dgarijo> martin: multiple process/products

Martin Doerr: multiple process/products

15:53:55 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:54:07 <simoninireland> Sorry, I seem to have lost my sound input.....

Simon Dobson: Sorry, I seem to have lost my sound input.....

15:54:11 <dgarijo> ... not sure if the multiplicity adds new concepts

... not sure if the multiplicity adds new concepts

15:54:11 <lebo-rpi> martin suggested having the newspaper add a photograph to bring out measurement provenance - would a reader poll/survey make sense?

Timothy Lebo: martin suggested having the newspaper add a photograph to bring out measurement provenance - would a reader poll/survey make sense?

15:54:15 <simoninireland> I'll end an email of my comment

Simon Dobson: I'll end an email of my comment

15:54:22 <dgarijo> ... it might be an issue of cardinality

... it might be an issue of cardinality

15:54:35 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:54:40 <luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

15:54:42 <dgarijo> Luc: that is a discussion for the future

Luc Moreau: that is a discussion for the future

15:54:59 <dgarijo> Satya: we don't need the scenario, but add provenance questions

Satya Sahoo: we don't need the scenario, but add provenance questions

15:55:15 <Zakim> -??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P27

15:55:25 <dgarijo> ... would like to add a sentence to the end of the example

... would like to add a sentence to the end of the example

15:55:26 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:55:49 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

15:55:54 <martin> +1 multiplicity is relevant for querying

Martin Doerr: +1 multiplicity is relevant for querying

15:56:00 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:56:06 <dgarijo> ... will mail the list for other points

... will mail the list for other points

15:56:09 <GK> (Need to have consumer for requirements/questions)

Graham Klyne: (Need to have consumer for requirements/questions)

15:56:11 <luc> ack khalidbelhajjame

Luc Moreau: ack khalidbelhajjame

15:56:14 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:56:52 <lebo-rpi> the "consumer" for my proposed two-source newspaper graph is the reader of the graph. They want to know that attribute X came from the government and attribute Y came from another company.

Timothy Lebo: the "consumer" for my proposed two-source newspaper graph is the reader of the graph. They want to know that attribute X came from the government and attribute Y came from another company.

15:56:52 <dgarijo> khalid: the error detected by the blogger should be part of the provenance

Khalid Belhajjame: the error detected by the blogger should be part of the provenance

15:56:59 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:06 <dgarijo> I agree with khalid

I agree with khalid

15:57:22 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:27 <luc> ack pgroth

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth

15:58:01 <dgarijo> pgroth: all suggestions can be included in the example. We have enough to discuss the concepts

Paul Groth: all suggestions can be included in the example. We have enough to discuss the concepts

15:58:14 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:58:22 <dgarijo> ... if we see that is not enough we can always go back and edit it

... if we see that is not enough we can always go back and edit it

15:59:08 <dgarijo> Luc: the best thing would be to reply the messages in the archive

Luc Moreau: the best thing would be to reply the messages in the archive

15:59:13 <luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:59:24 <dgarijo> +q

+q

16:00:53 <dgarijo> paulo: i would like to see what are the dimensions not considered right now

Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: i would like to see what are the dimensions not considered right now

16:01:48 <olaf> I have to go - bye

Olaf Hartig: I have to go - bye

<luc>Summary: Some suggestions were made to improve the data journalism example. It was indicated that these suggestions should be followed by an email and discussion on the mailing list. It was felt that the example should remain simple, and should not be stretched to accommodate all provenance use cases. If the need arises, other examples will be developed in a similar manner.
<luc>Subtopic: Concept illustration

4.2. Concept illustration

Summary: Illustrations were circulated during the week. Concepts illustrations should initially be discussed over email.

16:01:52 <dgarijo> Luc: the motivation of the example was to discuss the concepts of the charter. We need to share some terminology

Luc Moreau: the motivation of the example was to discuss the concepts of the charter. We need to share some terminology

16:01:55 <luc> Charter concepts illustration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html

Luc Moreau: Charter concepts illustration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html

16:01:56 <Zakim> -olaf

Zakim IRC Bot: -olaf

16:02:20 <dgarijo> Luc: illustration of the concepts

Luc Moreau: illustration of the concepts

16:02:36 <dgarijo> luc: let's discuss these concepts by email

Luc Moreau: let's discuss these concepts by email

<luc>Summary: Illustrations were circulated during the week. Concepts illustrations should initially be discussed over email.
16:02:43 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -SatyaSahoo

16:02:44 <Zakim> -[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI]

16:02:45 <Zakim> -??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41

16:02:46 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan

Scribe problem: the name 'Jeff_Pan' does not match any of the 43 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ilkay Altintas Khalid Belhajjame James Cheney Sam Coppens David Corsar Helena Deus Simon Dobson Martin Doerr Kai Eckert Jean-Pierre EVAIN James Frew Irini Fundulaki Daniel Garijo Paul Groth Olaf Hartig David Hau Sandro Hawke Jörn Hees Iker Huerga Graham Klyne Timothy Lebo Deborah McGuinness Simon Miles Luc Moreau James Myers Vinh Nguyen Edoardo () Pignotti Paulo Pinheiro da Silva Carl Reed Christine Runnegar david schaengold Daniel Schutzer Eric Stephan Linda Stewart Maria Theodoridou Ted Thibodeau Stephan Zednik Jun Zhao Paolo Missier Satya Sahoo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Jeff_Pan

16:02:47 <Zakim> - +30281039aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +30281039aaee

16:02:47 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaaa

16:02:47 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aagg

16:02:48 <Zakim> -DavidSchaengold

Zakim IRC Bot: -DavidSchaengold

16:02:50 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen

Zakim IRC Bot: -VinhNguyen

16:02:52 <Zakim> -paulo

Zakim IRC Bot: -paulo

16:02:54 <Zakim> -kai

Zakim IRC Bot: -kai

16:02:57 <Zakim> -paolo_

Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo_

16:02:58 <Zakim> -smiles

Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles

16:03:00 <Zakim> -??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P21

16:03:02 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun

16:03:05 <Zakim> -??P46

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P46

16:03:07 <Zakim> -SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens

16:03:09 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame

16:03:13 <Zakim> -??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P18

16:03:24 <luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

16:03:36 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

16:03:44 <luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:03:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-minutes.html luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-minutes.html luc

16:03:46 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

16:03:52 <luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

16:03:52 <trackbot> Sorry, luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

16:03:59 <Zakim> -luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -luc

16:04:40 <Zakim> -Lena

Zakim IRC Bot: -Lena

16:05:43 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro



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This revision (#6) generated 2011-05-17 21:55:22 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None