IRC log of prov on 2011-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:45:15 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #prov

14:45:15 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-irc

14:45:17 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:45:17 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #prov

14:45:19 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be

14:45:19 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:45:20 [trackbot]

Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference

14:45:20 [trackbot]

Date: 12 May 2011

14:45:41 [luc]

Zakim, this will be PROV

14:45:41 [Zakim]

ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

14:46:17 [luc]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

14:46:24 [luc]

Chair: luc

14:46:38 [luc]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:47:25 [luc]

Regrets: jornh

14:49:21 [pgroth]

pgroth has joined #prov

14:50:16 [dgarijo]

dgarijo has joined #prov

14:50:27 [luc]

Scribe: dgarijo

14:50:45 [dgarijo]

hi all

14:50:53 [luc]

Hi daniel, everything is set up for you.

14:51:02 [dgarijo]

thanks!

14:52:08 [VinhNguyen]

VinhNguyen has joined #prov

14:52:49 [Zakim]

SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:52:57 [Zakim]

+??P20

14:53:11 [administrator]

administrator has joined #prov

14:53:19 [Zakim]

+VinhNguyen

14:53:20 [Zakim]

+??P39

14:54:04 [simoninireland]

simoninireland has joined #prov

14:54:17 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:54:22 [pgroth]

Zakim, +??P20 is pgroth

14:54:22 [Zakim]

sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+??P20'

14:54:33 [pgroth]

Zakim, P20 is pgroth

14:54:33 [Zakim]

sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'

14:54:35 [dgarijo]

zakim, ??P3 is me

14:54:35 [Zakim]

+dgarijo; got it

14:54:44 [pgroth]

Zakim, ??P20 is me

14:54:44 [Zakim]

+pgroth; got it

14:54:58 [pgroth]

Zakim, mute me

14:54:58 [Zakim]

pgroth should now be muted

14:55:10 [pgroth]

Zakim, umute me

14:55:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'umute me', pgroth

14:55:17 [pgroth]

Zakim, unmute me

14:55:17 [Zakim]

pgroth should no longer be muted

14:55:28 [GK]

GK has joined #prov

14:55:39 [luc]

I am struggling to get through. Anybody got problem?

14:55:47 [dgarijo]

not at all

14:55:57 [dgarijo]

i dialed through skype

14:56:00 [GK]

I'm hearing things, not sure anyone hears me.

14:56:15 [GK]

zakim, help

14:56:15 [Zakim]

Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

14:56:18 [Zakim]

Some of the commands I know are:

14:56:19 [Zakim]

xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:21 [dgarijo]

zakim, who is making noise

14:56:22 [Zakim]

if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

14:56:24 [Zakim]

xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:27 [Zakim]

I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

14:56:30 [Zakim]

xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

14:56:30 [luc]

got in

14:56:32 [Zakim]

xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

14:56:34 [Zakim]

who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

14:56:36 [Zakim]

who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

14:56:39 [Zakim]

mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

14:56:42 [Zakim]

unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

14:56:44 [Zakim]

is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

14:56:47 [Zakim]

list conferences - reports the active conferences

14:56:49 [Zakim]

this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

14:56:51 [Zakim]

excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

14:56:53 [Zakim]

I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $

14:56:53 [luc]

who's here

14:56:54 [Zakim]

+luc

14:56:54 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is making noise', dgarijo

14:56:56 [Zakim]

+??P18

14:57:43 [lebo-rpi]

lebo-rpi has joined #prov

14:57:54 [luc]

zakim, who is here?

14:57:54 [Zakim]

On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, ??P39, dgarijo, luc, ??P18

14:57:55 [jun]

jun has joined #prov

14:57:56 [Zakim]

On IRC I see lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, administrator, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

14:59:08 [GK]

zakim, i am ??p39

14:59:08 [Zakim]

+GK; got it

14:59:24 [olaf]

olaf has joined #prov

14:59:32 [Zakim]

+??P21

14:59:33 [dcorsar]

dcorsar has joined #prov

14:59:35 [GK]

zakim, who is making noise

14:59:35 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is making noise', GK

14:59:36 [DavidSchaengold]

DavidSchaengold has joined #prov

14:59:43 [Zakim]

+ +1.518.276.aaaa

14:59:43 [dgarijo]

wooow!

14:59:57 [Zakim]

+??P41

15:00:03 [Christine]

Christine has joined #prov

15:00:17 [kai]

kai has joined #prov

15:00:19 [Zakim]

+Jeff_Pan

15:00:21 [sandro]

zakim, call Thomas-781

15:00:21 [Zakim]

ok, sandro; the call is being made

15:00:22 [Zakim]

+Thomas

15:00:23 [Zakim]

+olaf

15:00:33 [Zakim]

+ +44.191.245.aabb

15:00:36 [Satya]

Satya has joined #prov

15:00:51 [Zakim]

+??P43

15:00:54 [sandro]

zakim, Thomas-781 is temporarily Sandro

15:00:54 [Zakim]

sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Thomas-781'

15:00:55 [frew]

frew has joined #prov

15:01:01 [sandro]

zakim, Thomas is temporarily Sandro

15:01:01 [Zakim]

+Sandro; got it

15:01:04 [kai]

zakim, ??P43 is me

15:01:04 [Zakim]

+kai; got it

15:01:05 [GK]

zakim, who is talking

15:01:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is talking', GK

15:01:11 [Zakim]

+ +1.646.389.aacc

15:01:21 [GK]

zakim, who is talking?

15:01:28 [Zakim]

+??P46

15:01:29 [paolo_]

paolo_ has joined #prov

15:01:31 [Zakim]

GK, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (21%), GK (10%)

15:01:36 [Zakim]

+??P45

15:01:53 [jun]

zakim, ?P45 is jun

15:01:53 [Zakim]

sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '?P45'

15:01:56 [Zakim]

+ +329331aadd

15:02:02 [khalidbelhajjame]

khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov

15:02:05 [jun]

zakim, ??P45 is jun

15:02:07 [Zakim]

+jun; got it

15:02:10 [Zakim]

+SatyaSahoo

15:02:13 [GK]

zakim, i am ?p20

15:02:13 [Zakim]

sorry, GK, I do not see a party named '?p20'

15:02:16 [paolo_]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:16 [Zakim]

On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, +44.191.245.aabb, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun,

15:02:19 [Zakim]

... +329331aadd, SatyaSahoo

15:02:22 [Zakim]

+ +30281039aaee

15:02:23 [smiles]

smiles has joined #prov

15:02:32 [SamCoppens]

SamCoppens has joined #prov

15:02:33 [pgroth]

Zakim, GK is me

15:02:35 [Zakim]

+pgroth; got it

15:02:41 [Zakim]

- +44.191.245.aabb

15:02:43 [pgroth]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:46 [Zakim]

On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun, +329331aadd,

15:02:50 [Zakim]

... SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee

15:02:54 [pgroth]

Zakim, GK is pgroth

15:03:05 [Zakim]

sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'GK'

15:03:10 [Zakim]

+??P22

15:03:23 [pgroth]

Zakim, pgroth is GK

15:03:24 [Zakim]

+ +44.191.245.aaff

15:03:24 [Zakim]

+GK; got it

15:03:26 [SamCoppens]

zakim, +329331aadd is SamCoppens

15:03:26 [Zakim]

+SamCoppens; got it

15:03:29 [khalidbelhajjame]

zakim, ??P22 is really me

15:03:31 [Zakim]

+khalidbelhajjame; got it

15:03:33 [Zakim]

+??P27

15:03:52 [DavidSchaengold]

zakim, +1.646.389.aacc is DavidSchaengold

15:03:52 [Zakim]

+DavidSchaengold; got it

15:03:53 [Zakim]

+paulo

15:03:56 [paolo_]

zakim, +44.191.245.aaff is me

15:03:56 [Zakim]

+paolo_; got it

15:04:06 [paulo]

paulo has joined #prov

15:04:16 [Zakim]

+??P1

15:04:20 [CarlOGC]

CarlOGC has joined #prov

15:04:29 [smiles]

zakim, ??P1 is me

15:04:30 [dgarijo]

Luc: Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05

15:04:35 [Zakim]

+smiles; got it

15:04:53 [iker]

iker has joined #prov

15:05:13 [luc]

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-05

15:05:30 [Satya]

+1

15:05:31 [pgroth]

+1

15:05:34 [jun]

+1

15:05:34 [paolo_]

+1

15:05:36 [iker]

+1

15:05:37 [dgarijo]

Luc: support to the minutes of the last call

15:05:38 [lebo-rpi]

+1

15:05:38 [dcorsar]

+1

15:05:39 [dgarijo]

+1

15:05:41 [kai]

+1

15:05:42 [SamCoppens]

+1

15:05:44 [olaf]

+1

15:05:44 [khalidbelhajjame]

+1

15:05:46 [smiles]

+1

15:05:48 [frew]

+1

15:05:48 [DavidSchaengold]

+1

15:05:51 [GK]

+1

15:05:56 [simoninireland]

I sent my apologies -- don't know if you want to record that. Otherwise +1

15:06:00 [CarlOGC]

+1

15:06:35 [dgarijo]

the agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12

15:06:51 [pgroth]

minutes were accepted

15:06:52 [dgarijo]

Luc: no actions on the last call

15:07:01 [dgarijo]

... updates on memebership

15:08:14 [dgarijo]

Satya: problems with logging on the wiki page to post updates to the provenance example

15:08:43 [dgarijo]

Luc: volunteers for scribbing

15:08:47 [pgroth]

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes

15:08:55 [zednik]

zednik has joined #prov

15:09:17 [dgarijo]

... everyone should update their nicknames

15:09:17 [VinhNguyen]

+1

15:09:29 [dgarijo]

... to facilitate the work on the wiki /telecons

15:09:32 [Lena]

Lena has joined #prov

15:09:32 [luc]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0012.html

15:10:02 [dgarijo]

... Topic: Provenance concepts and Paul example

15:10:17 [Zakim]

+Lena

15:10:18 [dgarijo]

... discussion started by email during the week

15:10:35 [dgarijo]

... small subset of the group participating

15:10:38 [paolo_]

Luc, I am not yet a member and I am not on the list...

15:10:51 [dgarijo]

...any feedback on the example from others?

15:11:00 [pgroth]

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample

15:11:10 [Satya]

q+

15:11:17 [luc]

ack Satya

15:11:24 [dgarijo]

... before to moving to more complicate discussions, we should agree on whether is a good example or not

15:11:46 [paulo]

q+

15:11:53 [luc]

ack paulo

15:12:28 [luc]

zakim, who is making noise?

15:12:39 [Zakim]

luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paulo (63%), luc (19%), GK (29%), VinhNguyen (4%)

15:13:05 [dgarijo]

Paulo: could we remove the previous one to avoid confusion?

15:13:16 [dgarijo]

Paulo: (the previuous example)

15:13:18 [GK]

I think the example is fine as a starting point for discussion, I expect it won't represent the totality of requirements. AM worried about getting bogged down in tech details before user requirements have been elicited.

15:14:09 [dgarijo]

Luc: happy to remove it. However the previous example is mentioned in the minutes that we have just aproved

15:14:17 [GK]

Cool URIs... better to add a health warning?

15:15:00 [Zakim]

+[ISI]

15:15:06 [dgarijo]

Paulo: Had comments about the previous example, but now is happier with the new one.

15:15:20 [dgarijo]

Paulo: should I post the old comments?

15:16:05 [dgarijo]

Luc: The current example is being edited with the discussions, it is a live document.

15:16:23 [luc]

q+

15:16:28 [luc]

ack luc

15:16:30 [luc]

q?

15:16:34 [GK]

q+, to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example

15:16:47 [GK]

q+ to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example

15:17:15 [dgarijo]

Luc: We agreed in the las telecon that we would use an example that would be technology agnostic

15:17:20 [dgarijo]

Paulo: agrees

15:17:30 [smiles]

+1 it seems to me an appropriate example which matches vision outlined in the wg charter

15:17:34 [Satya]

+1

15:17:35 [SamCoppens]

+1

15:17:36 [frew]

+1

15:17:38 [DavidSchaengold]

+1

15:17:38 [olaf]

+1

15:17:39 [simoninireland]

+1

15:17:39 [luc]

PROPROSED: accept data journalism example for discussion

15:17:42 [khalidbelhajjame]

+1

15:17:43 [lebo-rpi]

+1

15:17:43 [frew]

q+

15:17:44 [dcorsar]

+1

15:17:44 [dgarijo]

Luc: proposes the journalist example as main starting point for discussions

15:17:44 [jun]

+1

15:17:46 [dgarijo]

+1

15:17:47 [kai]

+1

15:17:49 [zednik]

+1

15:17:53 [GK]

+1 accept data journo example for discussion

15:17:59 [paulo]

+1 (for .../ProvenanceExample)

15:18:01 [paolo_]

+1

15:18:02 [pgroth]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:18:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

15:18:06 [Zakim]

... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI]

15:18:24 [luc]

ACCEPTED: accept data journalism example for discussion

15:18:33 [YolandaGil]

YolandaGil has joined #prov

15:19:14 [dgarijo]

Luc: F2F meeting (we will be back to the example later, to discuss changes)

15:19:22 [luc]

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1

15:19:46 [dgarijo]

... from logistic point of view, the wikipage describes the event. Suggestions?

15:20:11 [luc]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:20:16 [dgarijo]

... please update the page saying if you'll be able to attend

15:20:33 [dgarijo]

... what are we planning to achieve in the meeting?

15:21:26 [dgarijo]

... sent an email with a number of issues. Can we achieve them?

15:21:27 [luc]

q?

15:21:32 [dgarijo]

... are they realistic?

15:21:56 [luc]

ack pgroth.a

15:21:56 [Zakim]

pgroth.a, you wanted to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example

15:22:10 [luc]

q?

15:22:18 [luc]

ack frew

15:22:40 [JimMyers]

JimMyers has joined #prov

15:22:42 [dgarijo]

frew: any of the documents discussed should be linked to the main wiki page

15:22:52 [pgroth]

q+

15:22:54 [luc]

q?

15:22:54 [dgarijo]

Luc: I agree

15:22:57 [martin]

i have a question

15:23:26 [dgarijo]

martin: should we include in the example some empirical data capture?

15:23:45 [luc]

q?

15:23:51 [pgroth]

we will come back to the example in a bit

15:24:01 [dgarijo]

martin: would be good to include some data that come to an observation

15:24:21 [dgarijo]

martin: also the material circumpstances of the photo capture

15:24:34 [smiles]

q+

15:24:39 [dgarijo]

Luc: we'll be back to the example in a bit, first the f2f objectives

15:24:48 [dgarijo]

martin: ok

15:25:01 [luc]

q?

15:25:19 [pgroth]

ack

15:25:24 [pgroth]

ack pgroth

15:25:33 [luc]

ACTION to pgroth: add links to example

15:25:33 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

15:25:52 [dgarijo]

smiles: don't really understand the objectives on task force 4?

15:25:58 [pgroth]

ACTION pgroth: add links to example

15:25:58 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-3 - Add links to example [on Paul Groth - due 2011-05-19].

15:26:10 [GK]

q+ TO SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

15:26:22 [pgroth]

Zakim, pgroth.a is GK

15:26:22 [Zakim]

+GK; got it

15:26:29 [pgroth]

q?

15:26:39 [luc]

q?

15:26:44 [luc]

ack smiles

15:26:52 [dgarijo]

Luc: implement examples for the specification. Identify people, apps and the use of provenance

15:26:56 [luc]

ack pgroth.a

15:26:56 [Zakim]

pgroth.a, you wanted to SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE

15:26:57 [pgroth]

q?

15:27:10 [luc]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:27:12 [dgarijo]

GK: can't see the goals in the f2f page

15:27:28 [olaf]

q+

15:28:17 [olaf]

q-

15:28:18 [luc]

q?

15:28:26 [paolo_]

q+

15:28:36 [luc]

q?

15:29:11 [dgarijo]

GK: 3 first objectives look good, but aren't these early days for implementation?

15:29:35 [paulo]

q+

15:29:46 [luc]

q?

15:30:21 [luc]

ack paolo_

15:30:43 [luc]

q?

15:30:44 [paolo_]

ack

15:31:09 [luc]

q?

15:31:10 [GK]

q+ to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

15:31:29 [luc]

q?

15:31:48 [dgarijo]

paolo: new requiriments won't be handled by this example

15:31:56 [Zakim]

+ +1.518.633.aagg

15:32:03 [dgarijo]

paolo: are we developing new examples?

15:32:05 [luc]

ack GK.a

15:32:05 [Zakim]

GK.a, you wanted to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course

15:32:21 [Satya]

I also agree with Paolo

15:32:29 [luc]

q?

15:32:38 [dgarijo]

GK: the new example is a starting point

15:32:54 [pgroth]

we don't want to implement anything

15:32:57 [pgroth]

amen to that!

15:33:24 [dgarijo]

paulo: where are going to provide guidelines in terms of...

15:33:31 [GK]

q+ to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

15:33:42 [pgroth]

q+

15:33:44 [luc]

q?

15:33:59 [luc]

ack GK.a

15:33:59 [Zakim]

GK.a, you wanted to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature

15:34:07 [luc]

ack paulo

15:34:11 [dgarijo]

GK: we need more than 1 implementation

15:34:11 [luc]

q?

15:34:20 [sandro]

+1 GK

15:34:33 [paolo_]

@GK: what is "interoperate" in this context?

15:34:46 [dgarijo]

GK: the standard has to prove that is better that independent implementations

15:34:49 [luc]

q?

15:35:19 [dgarijo]

sandro: agrees with GK. Really try to make sure is something that people can use

15:35:21 [luc]

q?

15:35:27 [luc]

ack pgroth

15:36:20 [dgarijo]

GK: test cases can be very useful here

15:36:21 [luc]

PROPOSED: to accept the objectives for F2F1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html

15:36:34 [GK]

+1

15:36:37 [dgarijo]

+1

15:36:38 [smiles]

+1

15:36:39 [paulo]

q+

15:36:39 [dcorsar]

+1

15:36:40 [olaf]

+1

15:36:40 [jun]

+1

15:36:40 [SamCoppens]

+1

15:36:42 [khalidbelhajjame]

+1

15:36:43 [simoninireland]

+1

15:36:48 [DavidSchaengold]

+1

15:36:49 [paolo_]

+1

15:36:52 [martin]

+1

15:37:01 [luc]

zakim, who is here?

15:37:01 [Zakim]

On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, GK.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,

15:37:04 [Zakim]

... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg

15:37:06 [Zakim]

On IRC I see JimMyers, YolandaGil, Lena, zednik, iker, CarlOGC, paulo, SamCoppens, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, frew, Satya, kai, Christine, DavidSchaengold, dcorsar, olaf,

15:37:08 [Zakim]

... jun, lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, martin, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot

15:37:20 [kai]

+1

15:37:21 [zednik]

+1

15:37:22 [VinhNguyen]

+1

15:37:27 [luc]

q?

15:37:27 [frew]

+1

15:37:44 [iker]

+1

15:37:53 [dgarijo]

paulo: i would like to see how much time are we going to dedicate for the tasks

15:38:11 [paolo_]

I was assuming the task forces would report to the F2F for a plenary discussion?!

15:38:18 [dgarijo]

... in the f2f meeting

15:38:32 [dgarijo]

Luc: it will be driven by the objectives

15:39:30 [dgarijo]

Luc: I will set up an agenda to divide the time for each of the tf

15:39:33 [Satya]

+1 (except not sure about the Implementation and Test Cases Task Force objectives)

15:40:10 [dgarijo]

Luc: not intended to do the whole work in the f2f

15:40:21 [dgarijo]

Luc: it will be the agreement in terminology

15:40:33 [GK]

+1 to say I think that having common terminology is vital goal

15:40:36 [dgarijo]

Luc: we have to do a lot of discussion in between

15:40:47 [dgarijo]

paulo: supports the objectives

15:40:51 [paolo_]

+1 to Luc: must of the work to be done before we get to the meeting

15:41:01 [paolo_]

s/must/most

15:41:06 [luc]

ACCEPTED: objectives for F2F1

15:41:49 [dgarijo]

Luc: some of you have suggestions to improve the example

15:42:05 [dgarijo]

Luc: useful to hear a short outline of them in the call

15:42:06 [luc]

q?

15:42:13 [paulo]

q+

15:42:32 [martin]

q+

15:42:37 [luc]

q?

15:43:14 [dgarijo]

paulo: can not discuss properly because of the time of the mail discussions

15:43:26 [luc]

q?

15:44:04 [dgarijo]

Luc: discussion starts from the ending of the telecon

15:44:19 [dgarijo]

Luc: we should not wait till last minute to raise discussions

15:44:47 [sandro]

q+

15:44:51 [luc]

q?

15:44:56 [smiles]

Maybe it has been difficult this past week because of the invited experts only just being included

15:45:08 [luc]

ack paulo

15:45:56 [luc]

ack sandro

15:45:58 [luc]

q?

15:45:59 [GK]

If substantive discussions and key consensus forming takes place in email, rather than in telecon, then timezone matters less.

15:46:33 [dgarijo]

Luc: the point on mail discussions is to achieve consensus

15:46:34 [luc]

ack martin

15:46:54 [luc]

q?

15:47:09 [dgarijo]

martin: proposes to use provenance info from measurements observations

15:47:33 [lebo-rpi]

q+

15:47:34 [dgarijo]

martin: vital for scientists to understand the circumstances of the measure

15:47:54 [GK]

q+ to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

15:48:00 [dgarijo]

... the location of the picture on the example, by who

15:48:02 [luc]

q?

15:48:08 [dgarijo]

Luc: good extension

15:48:13 [simoninireland]

q+

15:48:18 [dgarijo]

Luc: plase mail it to the mailing list

15:48:24 [pgroth]

i think it's good

15:48:29 [luc]

q?

15:48:38 [luc]

ack lebo-rpi

15:49:00 [martin]

q+

15:49:13 [Satya]

I agree with martin, we have a relevant paper for provenance of sensor readings: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/SPOT-Provenance_Aware_LSD.pdf

15:49:16 [dgarijo]

lebo-rpi: extension to what the newspaper was doing incorporating information from various sources.

15:49:34 [dgarijo]

... for example another charter

15:49:44 [Satya]

+1 for lebo

15:49:55 [Satya]

q+

15:50:07 [dgarijo]

... having multiple sources in the same graph

15:50:13 [luc]

q?

15:50:18 [pgroth]

this could integrate well with martin's proposal

15:50:21 [khalidbelhajjame]

+q

15:50:23 [dgarijo]

Luc: great, send a mil also

15:50:41 [pgroth]

+q

15:50:41 [lebo-rpi]

+1 on keeping this example simple

15:50:58 [luc]

q?

15:50:59 [dgarijo]

GK: not sure if this is the best way to handle the example. We should introduce more scenarios

15:51:08 [paolo_]

+1 for multiple simple scenarios -- or at least make it modular

15:51:10 [luc]

ack GK.a

15:51:10 [Zakim]

GK.a, you wanted to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...

15:51:12 [kai]

+1

15:51:19 [martin]

q+

15:51:19 [pgroth]

+1

15:51:23 [lebo-rpi]

+1

15:51:34 [luc]

q?

15:51:44 [dgarijo]

zakim, whi is speaking?

15:51:44 [Zakim]

sorry, dgarijo, I do not understand your question

15:51:52 [dgarijo]

zakim, who is speaking?

15:51:54 [pgroth]

so far this doesn't seem to bad...

15:52:04 [Zakim]

dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeff_Pan (9%)

15:52:14 [zednik]

+1 for multiple focused scenarios

15:52:33 [pgroth]

these extensions don't look to bad

15:52:41 [luc]

q?

15:52:42 [GK]

I'm happy with this

15:52:44 [martin]

+1

15:52:57 [dgarijo]

Luc: we will decide on the mailing list whether we should add new scenarios or simple extensions

15:52:58 [frew]

rapid progress on n simple examples > slow progress on 1 complex example

15:53:05 [luc]

ack simoninireland

15:53:10 [luc]

q?

15:53:23 [luc]

ack martin

15:53:35 [simoninireland]

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15:53:37 [dgarijo]

martin: in geenral the provenance problem is a highly interconnected graph

15:53:48 [paulo]

q+

15:53:50 [dgarijo]

martin: multiple process/products

15:53:55 [luc]

q?

15:54:07 [simoninireland]

Sorry, I seem to have lost my sound input.....

15:54:11 [dgarijo]

... not sure if the multiplicity adds new concepts

15:54:11 [lebo-rpi]

martin suggested having the newspaper add a photograph to bring out measurement provenance - would a reader poll/survey make sense?

15:54:15 [simoninireland]

I'll end an email of my comment

15:54:22 [dgarijo]

... it might be an issue of cardinality

15:54:35 [luc]

q?

15:54:40 [luc]

ack satya

15:54:42 [dgarijo]

Luc: that is a discussion for the future

15:54:59 [dgarijo]

Satya: we don't need the scenario, but add provenance questions

15:55:15 [Zakim]

-??P27

15:55:25 [dgarijo]

... would like to add a sentence to the end of the example

15:55:26 [luc]

q?

15:55:49 [GK]

+1

15:55:54 [martin]

+1 multiplicity is relevant for querying

15:56:00 [luc]

q?

15:56:06 [dgarijo]

... will mail the list for other points

15:56:09 [GK]

(Need to have consumer for requirements/questions)

15:56:11 [luc]

ack khalidbelhajjame

15:56:14 [luc]

q?

15:56:52 [lebo-rpi]

the "consumer" for my proposed two-source newspaper graph is the reader of the graph. They want to know that attribute X came from the government and attribute Y came from another company.

15:56:52 [dgarijo]

khalid: the error detected by the blogger should be part of the provenance

15:56:59 [luc]

q?

15:57:06 [dgarijo]

I agree with khalid

15:57:22 [luc]

q?

15:57:27 [luc]

ack pgroth

15:58:01 [dgarijo]

pgroth: all suggestions can be included in the example. We have enough to discuss the concepts

15:58:14 [luc]

q?

15:58:22 [dgarijo]

... if we see that is not enough we can always go back and edit it

15:59:08 [dgarijo]

Luc: the best thing would be to reply the messages in the archive

15:59:13 [luc]

q?

15:59:24 [dgarijo]

+q

16:00:53 [dgarijo]

paulo: i would like to see what are the dimensions not considered right now

16:01:48 [olaf]

I have to go - bye

16:01:52 [dgarijo]

Luc: the motivation of the example was to discuss the concepts of the charter. We need to share some terminology

16:01:55 [luc]

Charter concepts illustration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html

16:01:56 [Zakim]

-olaf

16:02:20 [dgarijo]

Luc: illustration of the concepts

16:02:36 [dgarijo]

luc: lets discuss these concepts by email

16:02:43 [Zakim]

-SatyaSahoo

16:02:44 [Zakim]

-[ISI]

16:02:45 [Zakim]

-??P41

16:02:46 [Zakim]

-Jeff_Pan

16:02:47 [Zakim]

- +30281039aaee

16:02:47 [Zakim]

- +1.518.276.aaaa

16:02:47 [Zakim]

- +1.518.633.aagg

16:02:48 [Zakim]

-DavidSchaengold

16:02:50 [Zakim]

-VinhNguyen

16:02:52 [paolo_]

paolo_ has left #prov

16:02:52 [Zakim]

-paulo

16:02:54 [Zakim]

-kai

16:02:57 [Zakim]

-paolo_

16:02:58 [Zakim]

-smiles

16:03:00 [Zakim]

-??P21

16:03:02 [Zakim]

-jun

16:03:05 [Zakim]

-??P46

16:03:07 [Zakim]

-SamCoppens

16:03:09 [Zakim]

-khalidbelhajjame

16:03:13 [Zakim]

-??P18

16:03:24 [luc]

rrsagent, set log public

16:03:34 [GK]

gk@ninebynine.org, gklyne@gmail.com

16:03:36 [Zakim]

-dgarijo

16:03:41 [pgroth]

pgroth has left #prov

16:03:44 [luc]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:03:44 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-minutes.html luc

16:03:46 [Zakim]

-GK.a

16:03:52 [luc]

trackbot, end telcon

16:03:52 [trackbot]

Sorry, luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

16:03:59 [Zakim]

-luc

16:04:40 [Zakim]

-Lena

16:05:43 [Zakim]

-Sandro

16:06:31 [DeborahMcGuinness]

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16:35:01 [Zakim]

disconnecting the lone participant, GK, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM

16:35:05 [Zakim]

SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

16:35:07 [Zakim]

Attendees were VinhNguyen, dgarijo, luc, +1.518.276.aaaa, Jeff_Pan, olaf, +44.191.245.aabb, Sandro, kai, jun, SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee, GK, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame,

16:35:10 [Zakim]

... DavidSchaengold, paulo, paolo_, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg

17:10:40 [CarlOGC]

-CarlOGC

17:10:51 [CarlOGC]

quit

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