Games Community Group Breakout Session

02 Nov 2011

See also: IRC log




<trackbot> Date: 02 November 2011

ted leung: goal to get people interested in games together. there is already a community group. today we will get games issues and get more CG participation.

ted: ian: get a scribe sand end by :25
... who is developing games? [few replied possibly]

marku: looking at games for ETS for education

ted: we develop everything from single player to massively multiplier games

<marie> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/HTML5_and_Games

ted: just acquired game engine company & die for browser games

<marie> W3C games CG: http://www.w3.org/community/games/

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/games/

ted: how many interested in games due to mobile: [some yes]
... a lot of interest in different approaches to game animation on web
... unfortunate conflict with game dev conf & TPAC
... join the games CG

<marie> http://www.w3.org/2011/09/games/

marie: workshop late september collocated with OnGameStart (sp?) conf
... one outcome was games CG
... tomorrow AM HTML5 games summit happening in SF at Zynga HQ

<tedleung> The Warsaw workshop was 1/2 day

francois daoust: want to highlight a few issues from workshop

francois: e.g. need joystick API, now in progress
... adding joystick support to DOM events and also adding mouse lock:

<JonathanJ> FYI : HTML5 JavaScript Game Engines - https://github.com/bebraw/jswiki/wiki/Game-Engines

francois: want platform hardware detect to enable or disable WebGL graphics acceleration.
... platform detect has fingerprinting security issue. TBD
... web workers (background threads) useful for games, but cannot perform pass-by-reference, which is problem for passing large amounts of data (e.g. 3D environment model)
... could be a new item for web apps group.
... games group needs to drive requirements into WGs
... another example: orientation lock (w/o locking out user control)

doug s: people should review the document

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2011/09/games/

ted: game developers have long list of issues to make good games
... another issue: several ways to perform animation: not a clear model yet; lots of experimentation; probably have requirements to performance & testing groups.

<mhakkinen> s/Marku/mhakkinen/

ted: are games developers largely focusing on canvas2d & webgl?

doug: no, zynga not using canvas

ted: our developers would love to do WebGL, but target is iOS devices. OpenGL not available to web apps on iOS. Also, not available on IE9.
... even canvas 2D not targeted because lots of non-HTML5 browsers in market.

francois: no one mentioned SVG

marcos: problem with SVG - no tools

ted: same with canvas (no tools)

marcos: if Flash could output to SVG, it would be great

doug: SVG WG cognizant of this: SVG new version will have better doc & performance enhancements that might get it used more.

ted: we're looking for people to get input for games

marcos: are some requirements on the web. hoping for more participation. already know the issues. same as issues with Flash in the 80s-90s (tools, ease of development, performance)
... audio APIs are a big problem. too much latency. chrome improving audio APIs

doug: also safari nightlies

marcos: personally think canvas is a bad API. Using DIVs for games is weird.
... All the crucial bits there, but not designed around games development production cycle
... canvas issues: very low level, buffer manipulation, byte arrays from JS

<marie> don brutzman

don: web3D consortium. Declarative 3D group is collecting use cases and interested in game use cases

ted: join the games CG

<Kris> Declarative 3D CG: http://www.w3.org/community/declarative3d/

doug: best outcome of CG is driving requirements into standards groups.

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing

mav: advice on influencing WGs: 1) Only work on gaps (2) File bugs

doug: yes and (3) write demos (4) write tests

sangwhan: It would be good to get feedback on browser bottlenecks. Recently wrote a game and uncovered lots of issues, even with browser src code access

ted: does w3c have perf tests for browsers

doug: not now: may come from web perf group or test group

marcos: web perf group looking at high rez timers

ted: is apple participating

marcos: not currently
... need to attract more participants

marku: what about accessible game guidelines?

ted: would be great for CG. Difficult for canvas.

marcos: relying on DOM events which are accessible.

<mhakkinen> accessible games guidelines http://gameaccess.medialt.no/guide.php

marcos: seen that mouse and keyboard games fail on iPad: brings up accessibility issues for all, not just those with disabilities

ted: goal of using web on iPad instead of iOS is: TTM & multiple targets (e.g. Android & Connected TVs)

Taisuke: Showing demo: am a vendor of sw for feature phones.
... new W3C logo
... web is best game platform

Showing demo of educational platform using interpreted language and simple graphical display for kids to learn program.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found Date: 02 Nov 2011
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