<scribe> scribe: Sharron

WCAG2 at a glance

Shawn: First agenda item
... look at the bottom of the linked page. It is intended to be printed on a small business card
... Look at "Notes for consideration..." reads from example

Sandi: why are we emphasizing captions over sudio description or other options?

Shawn: More people are familiar with the term and will understand the intent from a common technology
... within the limitations, we can't list all the alternatives. Either we list none and people don't know what we're talking about or we list the most well-known and lead people to a more complete list.

Sylvie: The relationship between the three columns is not clear.

Shawn: trying to match actual WCAG2 language when possible.
... so in this case, perhaps add the word media.

Sandi: It could be more confusing.

<sinarmaya> yes, but audio only is not multimedia ;-)

<shawn> acl sylvie

Shawn: proposal is to drop the word "content" so it reads "Provide captions and alternatives for audio and video."

Sylvie: but what about the other alternatives? should they be listed?

<sylvie> ok

Shawn: Space constraints

<sylvie> +1

Sharron: What if we add "other" to alternatives?

Shawn: Proposal is "Provide captions and other alternatives for audio and video." Any concerns with this wording?
... next is 1.3 Adaptable (reads)
... reads from Notes for Consideration alternative

Sandi: What does that mean?

Sharron: It is about more than assistive technology

Liam: the email suggests that it is jargony

Shawn: (Reads detail from WCAG2)

Sandi: What about make content meaningful regardless of access mode

Liam: That was Wayne's point exactly. Availble does not retain meaning necessarily.

Shadi: Issue is that this is not about assitive technology, and that the word "adaptability" is jargony and difficult to understand.

Liam: WCAG2 language seems good enough but is too long to fit. So can we shorten it and use it?

Shawn: One of the things was to use the WCAG2 wording as much as possible. As people become familiar through the At-A-Glance, we want them to recognize it when they refer to WCAG2
... what we have in "How People with Disabilities Use the Web" is much closer to the WCAG language.

Sharron: what about "Content can be presented in different ways and retain meaning?"

Liam: I suppose if you don't mention assitive tech, many developers won't know what the reference is

Shawn: Make content work in different ways

<sinarmaya> But "different ways" can be understood as it is only necessary to be able to apply different style sheets or which may arise in mobile devices.

<sinarmaya> I think it is important to mention something that refers to the interaction with assistive technologies.

Liam: are we talking about making sure no content is lost when you transform content?

Shawn: Not only transform..it is alot of it, but not all.

Liam: For example, a PDF that has been accessified is technically accessible to assitive tech but no informaiton is available.

Shawn: I think of it also referring to change of style sheets or devices will lose meaning or sense.

<shawn> make content makes sense when it is presented in different ways

Liam: Information is available in multiple modes - sight, sound, touch

Shawn: Info makes sense when presented in different ways

Sylvie: making it availble

Liam: Informaiton architecture must persist

<shawn> Make your content work when users interact with it in different ways

Sylvie: Make informaiton and structure available in different ways

<shawn> sharron: make content usable in differnt modes

Sharron: concept of "usable"

Sylvie: concern with usable within perceivalbe section

Sandi: meaningful for all users?

<shawn> Make content, infomoration, and structure meaningful to all users

Sharron: I like that

Liam: too abstract for developers

<sinarmaya> what about "interoperable" ?

Shawn: Information architecture is persistant and meaningful for all users
... it is not about operating or understanding, but getting the information
... people can get information and structure in different ways

<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure in differeny ways

Liam: fells close

Sharron: yep, seems good

Liam: can we make it more specific than "different ways"

<LiamM> through different senses?

<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure through different means

Sylvie: by different means?

<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure through sensory modalities... different software

Liam: different...sensory modalities? software?

Shawn: let's move on and see if we get brilliant ideas in a bit. Please add this to your list of things to think about
... next one is a suggestion for a wording change.

<sylvie> +1 for content

Shawn: 1.4 cahnge "things" to "content"

Shadi: why the only reference to contrast? The issue is that this guideline is also about audio, separation of foreground and background etc.
... previously we had treid to be broader
... reduces the scope

Shawn: Can use WCAG2 language "Make it easier for users to see and hear content"

<shawn> Make it easier for users to see and hear content.

<shawn> Make content easier for users to see and hear.

Sharron: agree

Shawn: any concerns with that?

All: no concerns

Shawn: Next one is to replace current language with actual 2.1 phrase: Make all functionality available from a keyboard.

All: no concerns

Shawn: Next few have no proposed changes, Shadi anything to point out froem "How People..."

Shadi: 2.4, where people are

Shawn: any concerns with synopsis?

ALL: no concerns

Shawn: 4.1 is shorter, any concerns?

Sylvie: Actual wording talks about current and future. Don't we want to reference that?

Shawn: it is definitely not as precise in that way, and doesn't include a reference to assistive devices as well.

<shawn> Maximize compatibility with many different type of technologies.

Shawn: is it important enough to override our constraints of space and clarity?

<shawn> Maximize compatibility with many different types of technologies.

<shawn> Maximize compatibility with a wide range of technologies.

Sharron: as you get more specific, you put a spotlight on what is left out

<sylvie> sorry, my office is noisy but i agree with wide range of technologies

Shadi: I am usually an advocate for more precise language, but in this case the open statement seems OK

Shawn: Is this a significant concern or is this one of those that we continue to think aobut but may be OK? How strong is your feeling that this much change?

Sylvie: it is good for consideration

Shawn: Please get our your to-do lists and put this as something to consider in the next 4 days. We are fine except for 2.3 which must change and 4.1 to think about

WAI Flyer

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-material#newnotes

Shawn: Reveiw the notes about what we want from the flyer. We have had a handout and are making another
... (reads from requirements) and we also need to think about use cases as we still find professionals who are unaware of our work.
... let's look at the two propsed flyers

Liam: I like the revised option - the Hub version. The headings are clear, the language seems more accessible. Would suggest brigning in the authroity reference.

Shawn: Giving the timing, we will postpone the third agenda item and can dedicate the rest of the meeting to this.
... We have so many, broad, varied resources it doesn't work to list them all. Instead, Sandi's focus was on the audiences.

Sandi: Trying to explain the resources themselves was far too extensive. Now my concern is have we included all of our audiences?

Liam: Maybe under the final bullet, add ...and you!

<shawn> "Discover new resources for people with disabilities, policy makers, managers, and you!"

<shawn> from - http://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/2011/sitemap2010.html

Shawn: it might not fly but we can try it.

Sylvie: I am lost, are still on the flyer?

Shawn: yes, we reveiwed the notes and are comparing the two
... Shadi, can you channel the staff response to the flyer versions?

Shadi: I like the approach of the Hub version, wording and terms and direction. I
... "Including PWD..." jumped out a bit. Prominence of vendors. And the listing neglects users and PWD themselves. But overall I agree with Liam observance that the headings are self-explanatory and the lsiting of audiences is effective.
... I know you like the word Hub, but think aobut the translation issues that may arise.

Sandi: The reason I did not include users is that the flyer is directed to those who may adopt the guidelines and use the resources to better serve users. The resources are there for adopters of the guidelines

Shadi: How about reducing it to "WAI provides resources for..."

Sandi: Making a distinction between the guidelines, intended for adopters and the resources, intended for everyone.

Shawn: Two concerns. First are the headings which are great but must be reviewed. Second is the fact that the two lists may be misunderstood.
... resources that we develop and maintain for PSD are a small part
... going back to Liam's comment, what the Hub version does not have is the establishment of authority.

Sandi: Yes, I can see it would be necessary

Shawn: So the questions are - do we want the authroity established/ and if so, how?

Shadi: I like the quote because it not only establishes authority, but also reference universality. Internationalization, inclusive, etc

Sandi: Actually had too much of that in an earlier version, so will focus on establishing a balance. But personally I don't like the TBL quote because it is stale by now. Want something fresh.

Shawn: i remember when we did the site redesign five or so years ago, there was a group that said it is a foundational quote, must be prominent. So how are we feeling about it these days? outdated? foundational? resonent?

<shawn> Sharron: first reaction is ya it's old. but people still don't know it. had that expserience this week - 508 corrdainteors really liked it and hadn't heard it

Shadi: I agree. And what are the alternatives? What would take the place that has the same power?

<sinarmaya> I think what really attracts people is that it is something he said TBL....

Sandi: want to change Hub, would rather be Home of Web Accessibility

Liam: Nice idea

Shawn: agree, swett - cozy, family, and home page. Love it
... Learn.Engage.Participate.Share...comments on that?

Shadi: Like it very much. Have another suggestion Inclusiveness, Innovation, People with Disabilities, Universality

Shawn: Less potentially offensive, people first
... final thoughts?
... Sandi you were so responsive, thanks!

Sandi: so send me the changes, I can make them quickly and soon.

Shawn: Some are in brackets, and we can talk about the detail. Everyone should plan to look again early next week. We have five or six big conferences in March and so are highly motivated.
... please plan time early next week
... if you ahve specific comments, please send to Sandi / WAI-EO editors or just to me
... WAI Outreach planning will push to next week. Bring suggestions for Candidate Rec, etc. TPAC meeting is set in Santa Clara.
... Next thing is in May possibly in Bilbao or London.
... fill in the avaialibility, put in best guess and can be changed

<sylvie> yes

Shawn: thanks to Sylvie, the rest of you please complete.

<shadi> :))

Shawn: schedule time this week and thanks a bunch!

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Sharron
Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: All Emmanuelle IPcaller Ian Liam LiamM P0 P2 Sandi Shadi Shawn Sylvie aaaa aabb aacc eo joined sharron sinarmaya
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Helle Ian
Got date from IRC log name: 11 Feb 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/11-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: