<scribe> scribe: Sharron
Shawn: First agenda item
... look at the bottom of the linked page. It is intended to be printed on a small business card
... Look at "Notes for consideration..." reads from example
Sandi: why are we emphasizing captions over sudio description or other options?
Shawn: More people are familiar
with the term and will understand the intent from a common
... within the limitations, we can't list all the alternatives. Either we list none and people don't know what we're talking about or we list the most well-known and lead people to a more complete list.
Sylvie: The relationship between the three columns is not clear.
Shawn: trying to match actual
WCAG2 language when possible.
... so in this case, perhaps add the word media.
Sandi: It could be more confusing.
<sinarmaya> yes, but audio only is not multimedia ;-)
<shawn> acl sylvie
Shawn: proposal is to drop the word "content" so it reads "Provide captions and alternatives for audio and video."
Sylvie: but what about the other alternatives? should they be listed?
Shawn: Space constraints
Sharron: What if we add "other" to alternatives?
Shawn: Proposal is "Provide
captions and other alternatives for audio and video." Any
concerns with this wording?
... next is 1.3 Adaptable (reads)
... reads from Notes for Consideration alternative
Sandi: What does that mean?
Sharron: It is about more than assistive technology
Liam: the email suggests that it is jargony
Shawn: (Reads detail from WCAG2)
Sandi: What about make content meaningful regardless of access mode
Liam: That was Wayne's point exactly. Availble does not retain meaning necessarily.
Shadi: Issue is that this is not about assitive technology, and that the word "adaptability" is jargony and difficult to understand.
Liam: WCAG2 language seems good enough but is too long to fit. So can we shorten it and use it?
Shawn: One of the things was to
use the WCAG2 wording as much as possible. As people become
familiar through the At-A-Glance, we want them to recognize it
when they refer to WCAG2
... what we have in "How People with Disabilities Use the Web" is much closer to the WCAG language.
Sharron: what about "Content can be presented in different ways and retain meaning?"
Liam: I suppose if you don't mention assitive tech, many developers won't know what the reference is
Shawn: Make content work in different ways
<sinarmaya> But "different ways" can be understood as it is only necessary to be able to apply different style sheets or which may arise in mobile devices.
<sinarmaya> I think it is important to mention something that refers to the interaction with assistive technologies.
Liam: are we talking about making sure no content is lost when you transform content?
Shawn: Not only transform..it is alot of it, but not all.
Liam: For example, a PDF that has been accessified is technically accessible to assitive tech but no informaiton is available.
Shawn: I think of it also referring to change of style sheets or devices will lose meaning or sense.
<shawn> make content makes sense when it is presented in different ways
Liam: Information is available in multiple modes - sight, sound, touch
Shawn: Info makes sense when presented in different ways
Sylvie: making it availble
Liam: Informaiton architecture must persist
<shawn> Make your content work when users interact with it in different ways
Sylvie: Make informaiton and structure available in different ways
<shawn> sharron: make content usable in differnt modes
Sharron: concept of "usable"
Sylvie: concern with usable within perceivalbe section
Sandi: meaningful for all users?
<shawn> Make content, infomoration, and structure meaningful to all users
Sharron: I like that
Liam: too abstract for developers
<sinarmaya> what about "interoperable" ?
Shawn: Information architecture
is persistant and meaningful for all users
... it is not about operating or understanding, but getting the information
... people can get information and structure in different ways
<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure in differeny ways
Liam: fells close
Sharron: yep, seems good
Liam: can we make it more specific than "different ways"
<LiamM> through different senses?
<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure through different means
Sylvie: by different means?
<shawn> Ensure that users can get information and structure through sensory modalities... different software
Liam: different...sensory modalities? software?
Shawn: let's move on and see if
we get brilliant ideas in a bit. Please add this to your list
of things to think about
... next one is a suggestion for a wording change.
<sylvie> +1 for content
Shawn: 1.4 cahnge "things" to "content"
Shadi: why the only reference to
contrast? The issue is that this guideline is also about audio,
separation of foreground and background etc.
... previously we had treid to be broader
... reduces the scope
Shawn: Can use WCAG2 language "Make it easier for users to see and hear content"
<shawn> Make it easier for users to see and hear content.
<shawn> Make content easier for users to see and hear.
Shawn: any concerns with that?
All: no concerns
Shawn: Next one is to replace current language with actual 2.1 phrase: Make all functionality available from a keyboard.
All: no concerns
Shawn: Next few have no proposed changes, Shadi anything to point out froem "How People..."
Shadi: 2.4, where people are
Shawn: any concerns with synopsis?
ALL: no concerns
Shawn: 4.1 is shorter, any concerns?
Sylvie: Actual wording talks about current and future. Don't we want to reference that?
Shawn: it is definitely not as precise in that way, and doesn't include a reference to assistive devices as well.
<shawn> Maximize compatibility with many different type of technologies.
Shawn: is it important enough to override our constraints of space and clarity?
<shawn> Maximize compatibility with many different types of technologies.
<shawn> Maximize compatibility with a wide range of technologies.
Sharron: as you get more specific, you put a spotlight on what is left out
<sylvie> sorry, my office is noisy but i agree with wide range of technologies
Shadi: I am usually an advocate for more precise language, but in this case the open statement seems OK
Shawn: Is this a significant concern or is this one of those that we continue to think aobut but may be OK? How strong is your feeling that this much change?
Sylvie: it is good for consideration
Shawn: Please get our your to-do lists and put this as something to consider in the next 4 days. We are fine except for 2.3 which must change and 4.1 to think about
Shawn: Reveiw the notes about
what we want from the flyer. We have had a handout and are
... (reads from requirements) and we also need to think about use cases as we still find professionals who are unaware of our work.
... let's look at the two propsed flyers
Liam: I like the revised option - the Hub version. The headings are clear, the language seems more accessible. Would suggest brigning in the authroity reference.
Shawn: Giving the timing, we will
postpone the third agenda item and can dedicate the rest of the
meeting to this.
... We have so many, broad, varied resources it doesn't work to list them all. Instead, Sandi's focus was on the audiences.
Sandi: Trying to explain the resources themselves was far too extensive. Now my concern is have we included all of our audiences?
Liam: Maybe under the final bullet, add ...and you!
<shawn> "Discover new resources for people with disabilities, policy makers, managers, and you!"
<shawn> from - http://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/2011/sitemap2010.html
Shawn: it might not fly but we can try it.
Sylvie: I am lost, are still on the flyer?
Shawn: yes, we reveiwed the notes
and are comparing the two
... Shadi, can you channel the staff response to the flyer versions?
Shadi: I like the approach of the
Hub version, wording and terms and direction. I
... "Including PWD..." jumped out a bit. Prominence of vendors. And the listing neglects users and PWD themselves. But overall I agree with Liam observance that the headings are self-explanatory and the lsiting of audiences is effective.
... I know you like the word Hub, but think aobut the translation issues that may arise.
Sandi: The reason I did not include users is that the flyer is directed to those who may adopt the guidelines and use the resources to better serve users. The resources are there for adopters of the guidelines
Shadi: How about reducing it to "WAI provides resources for..."
Sandi: Making a distinction between the guidelines, intended for adopters and the resources, intended for everyone.
Shawn: Two concerns. First are
the headings which are great but must be reviewed. Second is
the fact that the two lists may be misunderstood.
... resources that we develop and maintain for PSD are a small part
... going back to Liam's comment, what the Hub version does not have is the establishment of authority.
Sandi: Yes, I can see it would be necessary
Shawn: So the questions are - do we want the authroity established/ and if so, how?
Shadi: I like the quote because it not only establishes authority, but also reference universality. Internationalization, inclusive, etc
Sandi: Actually had too much of that in an earlier version, so will focus on establishing a balance. But personally I don't like the TBL quote because it is stale by now. Want something fresh.
Shawn: i remember when we did the site redesign five or so years ago, there was a group that said it is a foundational quote, must be prominent. So how are we feeling about it these days? outdated? foundational? resonent?
<shawn> Sharron: first reaction is ya it's old. but people still don't know it. had that expserience this week - 508 corrdainteors really liked it and hadn't heard it
Shadi: I agree. And what are the alternatives? What would take the place that has the same power?
<sinarmaya> I think what really attracts people is that it is something he said TBL....
Sandi: want to change Hub, would rather be Home of Web Accessibility
Liam: Nice idea
Shawn: agree, swett - cozy,
family, and home page. Love it
... Learn.Engage.Participate.Share...comments on that?
Shadi: Like it very much. Have another suggestion Inclusiveness, Innovation, People with Disabilities, Universality
Shawn: Less potentially
offensive, people first
... final thoughts?
... Sandi you were so responsive, thanks!
Sandi: so send me the changes, I can make them quickly and soon.
Shawn: Some are in brackets, and
we can talk about the detail. Everyone should plan to look
again early next week. We have five or six big conferences in
March and so are highly motivated.
... please plan time early next week
... if you ahve specific comments, please send to Sandi / WAI-EO editors or just to me
... WAI Outreach planning will push to next week. Bring suggestions for Candidate Rec, etc. TPAC meeting is set in Santa Clara.
... Next thing is in May possibly in Bilbao or London.
... fill in the avaialibility, put in best guess and can be changed
Shawn: thanks to Sylvie, the rest of you please complete.
Shawn: schedule time this week and thanks a bunch!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Sharron Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: All Emmanuelle IPcaller Ian Liam LiamM P0 P2 Sandi Shadi Shawn Sylvie aaaa aabb aacc eo joined sharron sinarmaya You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Regrets: Helle Ian Got date from IRC log name: 11 Feb 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/11-eo-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]