HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

13 May 2010


See also: IRC log


Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, Frank_Oliver, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot, Marco_IRC_only, Mike, Sean_Hayes, jon
Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfieffer, Denis_Boudreau, Steve_Faulkner, Kelly_Ford, Ben_Caldwell, Matt_May, Kenny_Johar
JF, John_Foliot


<trackbot> Date: 13 May 2010

<Marco_Ranon> Hi All. I can't dial in but I'll be following on irc.

<Marco_Ranon> Thanks.

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka

<janina> agenda: this

<MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0109.html

<JF> scribe - JF

<JF> greg: use colons instead of dashes

<inserted> Janina: hypertext pf

<oedipus> scribenick: JF

<MichaelC> scribe: JF

<oedipus> scribe: John_Foliot

Action Items Review

Action items review

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - items

<inserted> Janina: hypertext pf

<MichaelC> scribe: JF

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

Action 25 on Steve

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 25

<scribe> ACTION: 25 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/25

Authoring guidance document - Alt Techniaues

<MichaelC> close action-25

<trackbot> ACTION-25 Post notice to a11y TF about http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ and how to make comments closed


on greg


Greg: decdied that adding this as an apendix will be distracting

will continue to work on this in the wiki

<MichaelC> action-28 due 27 May

<trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list due date now 27 May

decide to keep open - push the date to may 27

2 Actions open, all others in sub-groups

Sub-Group Updates

Janina: Canvas appears still stuck, awaiting feedback from Apple

<jongunderson> zakim ??P22 is jon

still on track for deadline (June 3)

Windows and Linux seem ok, but don't know about Apple

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/10-html-a11y-minutes

ERic: will talk to Maciej - who promised to get on it
... suggests to remnid Maciej on the larger WG call

not heard anything from Chaals re: Image-map proposal

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas

believe both can co-exist

ARIA group on track for June 24th

<oedipus> scribenick: oedipus

<JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2

<JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media

<JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibility

JF: had good call yesterday -- needs assessment was the main topic - a11y requirements for media wiki document
... concern that not all user groups not all represented - JBrewer soliciting feedback/input from deafblind community; more feedback from DAISY on architectural structure
... please review media work - break down reqs to bullet and action items this week
... progress being made - Javascript API and TimeText Association - fine, but no active work until reqs doc completed
... other topic we need to discuss is WebSRT -- a lot of activity on list -- hixie did remove WebSRT from W3C version of spec; still in WHAT WG version
... still need to have discussion on what timestamp format or formats will be supported
... will be monitoring listmail on topic - next week, where do we go from here - timed text or WebSRT or both

<JF> thanks greg

JS: please review requirements document -- thanks to Sean for compiling: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media

<JF> encourage all to review the Accessibility Requirements doc

JS: timeline - another week for reqs gathering, then compare with tech currently on table and identifying gaps and reach out to communities to ensure that we are reaching all target audiences

<JF> Janina: hypertext pf coordinations express great interest of this document

<inserted> Scribe: JF

requesting a presentation of said in June

Discussion of new content (media items) in W3C Spec document

draft resolution of last week

however events have now made the CfC moot, as Ian removed that text from W3C draft

questions of "scope" for the HTML5 docu

time formats (Web SRT)

likely will split out to a seperate spec document

<oedipus> i/scribenick+ JF/Janina: hypertext pf/

suggestion to just drop Cfc? non objections

Bug Disposition Proposals

Michel has a number of bugs + suggestions on how to deal

<MichaelC> Bug disposition proposals


<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8652

Proposed to close bug

Janina: announced that we would return to editorial issues on a second pass

discussion of length and understandability of the current text

Cyns: expressing concern about how this will be received

Janina: we should get some successes under our belt before we take on editorial issuse

Cyns: we should make a new bug regarding the text

Greg: once we get guidance into the ALT document from Steve, then we can add or modify

we should be working on advancing STeve's docu, then work on ensuring that conflicting text is modified or removed from the HTML5 Draft

MichaelC on 8652, should we close it?

Addressed by Text Alternatives proposal


<oedipus> ACTION: Cynthia - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2010-05-20].

related to media - problem with user-agents. If they support media format, and it doesn't load, then it does not present fall-back content

MichaelC: should be referred to media sub-group

Eric: agrees that this should go to Media sub-grou

Assign to: JF (no objections)


beleives has been resolve - should close?


Command element apepars to have different functions, might cause author issues

Cyns: has a work item in mapping task-force

elements are going to change role based on context

beleives that work will address this bug

assigned to Cyns, related to mapping sub-group


believe we can accept as Fixed and close this

relates to legacy behavior, so we should close


Image map un-specified

needs a proposal, but not urgent

will assign to Chaals with deadline

if nothing in, then close without prejeduce

MichaelC: this might be complex, we should likely give hime 4 weeks

Deadline of JUne 10, close after that if no proposal


do we want to live with the command api as it exists, or push for role-based support?

relates to access element

Greg: working on access element proposal by end of this week

Cyns: sounds like it needs more investigation

look at access vs command

Cyns looking at command stuff this week - will coordinate with Greg

discuss off-line?

Cyns: believes they will be taling about cammand stuff in the mapping sub-group in the next week or 2

<oedipus> cyns, your previously assigned action item is http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44


MichaelC - propose we close this one - suggests that RDFa can do the job

do we want this approach (RDFa) to be put into the spec?

not 100% accessibility issue

Cyns: don't believe this is for a11y to worry about

<oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/

<oedipus> Support for RDFa in HTML4 and HTML5

will wait for 2-day call for review of any action items discussed today

will ping Manu about 8747


unclear about the hidden attribute

is different from the CSS 'hiding' techniques

is a non-issue

will close


MichaelC we should likely 'untrack' it


progress element should be labelable with a label

can be done, we should untrack

<oedipus> http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=4530&to=4531

Greg: Ian said he would make meter and progress full form controls and move them into that section

Janina: we should follow that then

they are now labelable

s/albel / label


if we believe that user-agent issues should be in spec, we need an owner ass there is not enough data in the bug

MichaelC: believe that this should be in spec, but this could go either way

<oedipus> MikeSmith affirmed that change made to http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/ that <progress> <meter> and <output> are now labelable with <label>

MichaelC: suggest assigning it to Jim Allan or Kelley Ford of UAAG

Janina: philosophical question here: does this belong inside the HTML5 spec?

MichaelC: feels that this should be in spec

<oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/forms.html#the-label-element

Janina: perhaps review other items that require further discussion and defer actual action until next time


MichaelC: beleives spec says enough


MichaelC: defines what happens when there is more text than display zone - what happens when you re-size

this should be addressed more concrete in spec - related to zooming, overflow, etc.

again likely UAAG issue

<oedipus> JF: would like to re-review and chew on it a bit

ERic: agrees that this needs more consideration,might be a big change in behavior

<MikeSmith> oedipus, in regard to what elements the spec defines as being labelable, see http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/forms.html#category-label .. the complete list is currently button input keygen meter output progress select textarea

Janina: sounds like we need to return to this point next week

<oedipus> MikeSmith, thanks for the clarification

<MikeSmith> np

JF: should we request that members of UAAG attend next call?

Janina: perhaps send out an email to the group with a heads-up for next week

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/IFRAME

MichaelC: will send somthing around

Janina: will send out CfC's on the various bugs discussed today - most to close

<oedipus> IFrame Accessibility Inquiry & Fact Gathering wiki page

give a couple days for feedback

discussion of survey mechanism

MichaelC: one survey per bug

MichaelC will create a survey

Janina: some of the questions we are looking at are being canvased at larger working group

please and thanks Greg

<oedipus> trackbot, drop ACTION: 25

<trackbot> Sorry, oedipus, I don't understand 'trackbot, drop ACTION: 25'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: 25 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Cynthia - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Eric_Carlson, Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, Mike, Janina, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, +0154558aaaa, Sean_Hayes, Cynthia_Shelly, jon, [Microsoft]
Present: Cooper Cynthia_Shelly Eric_Carlson Frank_Oliver Gregory_Rosmaita Janina Janina_Sajka John_Foliot Marco_IRC_only Mike Sean_Hayes jon
Regrets: Laura_Carlson Sylvia_Pfieffer Denis_Boudreau Steve_Faulkner Kelly_Ford Ben_Caldwell Matt_May Kenny_Johar
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0109.html
Found Date: 13 May 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 25 cynthia

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