HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference

24 Jul 2008


See also: IRC log


Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, +1.425.646.aaaa, smedero, laura, Cynthia_Shelly, ed_work, [Microsoft]


Convene meeting, review agenda

cw: did want to make sure people looked at tracker definitions:

<smedero> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

tracker status definitions

<Julian> I was thinking about shortly talking about other specs starting to reference HTML5's "URL" definition (AC)

<MikeSmith> Julian: OK

<DanC> it still says "PENDINGREVIEW = The Editor has reviewed arguments and edited spec to taste" but the editor doesn't have write access to tracker

<DanC> last edited 2008-07-23 21:34:40

<sampablokuper> My apologies to the mtg; I'll have to leave around 17.25 BST.

<DanC> "Tracker Action State Definitions" looks fine to me

<Laura> Many thanks for reviewing and editing the Tracker definitions. It is important that people work from the same meanings to attempt shared understanding. It will aid in transparency of process and may help avoid future misunderstandings.

<DanC> POSTPONED and CLOSED look good. e.g. "POSTPONED = The WG has decided ..."

<Cynthia> Cynthia switched phones

will do edit to make sure it's clear chairs have responsibility

"URL" definition in HTML5 spec

"The defn of an HTML URL is an IRI, which allows non-ASCII characters."

This makes them unsuitable for Access Control, since HTTP does not allow non-ASCII.

<gsnedders> HTTP defines non-ASCII characters to be interpreted as ISO-8859-1, FWIW

<Julian> gsnedders: correct, but you really want to go there for IRIs :-)

<gsnedders> Julian: Well, it isn't worth much :)

<DanC> Determining the character encoding

<DanC> any volunteers to make Determining the character encoding a separate spec so XHR can cite it?

<DanC> I'm interested to give it a try, though I'm not as expert on character encoding issues as others

<DanC> there's a wierd "3" in http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML

<smedero> I think Section 2.3 URLs references a different section on character encoding though...

<smedero> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#character3

<DanC> last edited 2008-07-24 14:58:41

<DanC> +1 "Only the chairs should move actions to 'closed'. Typically moving actions from PENDINGREVIEW to CLOSED will involve review in the weekly telecon. "

<MikeSmith> action-79?

<trackbot> ACTION-79 does not exists

<MikeSmith> action-70?

<trackbot> ACTION-70 -- Chris Wilson to review/edit tracker definitions: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML?action=show#head-47c0b55d661dcf93f76d586ddbe292c9abc597e4 -- due 2008-07-24 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/70

<MikeSmith> action-71?

<trackbot> ACTION-71 -- Chris Wilson to bring up SVG/DOM issue on list -- due 2008-07-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/71


<DanC> MikeSmith, did you say he intends to implement the SVG WG proposal?

<DanC> ah. yes.

<DanC> Andrew Sidwell <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>

<smedero> Andrew is working on Hubub: http://www.netsurf-browser.org/projects/hubbub/

<smedero> "Hubbub is an HTML5 compliant parsing library, written in C. It is currently in development for use with NetSurf and is intended to be suitable for use in other projects too. For further details, see the readme.

<DanC> CW: good question; it seems to come down to whether the test says "you have to either draw the circle or show the fallback" or "you have to show the circle"

MS/DC/CW discussing testing, and the implications of embedding vocabularies

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents draw circles and such

DC raises the issue of "optional features"

<Philip> The test could just say "the DOM must contain an element with namespaceURI 'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' localName 'circle'"

<DanC> (4.1. Well-defined Behavior seems to be relevant; doesn't quite say "optional features suck; don't go there." http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#well-defined-behavior )

MS: if it were up to me, I'd mandate SVG support

CW: not crazy - but we would have to mandate a particular version/scope of SVG, and make sure the test suite for HTML5 tests it thoroughly

<DanC> (tracker crumbs: ISSUE-37 html-svg-mathml )

<Philip> It's the same as what happens if you do <script>document.createElementNS('http://my.fancy.spec/', 'circle')</script> in HTML - it's a well-defined operation as far as HTML/DOM is concerned, and we don't care how it gets rendered since that's somebody else's problem

Philip: it's not an SEP.

<smedero> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0318.html

<smedero> Al Gilman

MS: Thanks Dan, ya been hepful. :)

<Philip> (In relation to optional features, I've been (successfully) pushing to make the optional features in <canvas> be mandatory - options are annoying)

<ed_work> regarding tests for svg in html, there may well be existing testcases from the CDF WG to re-use (depending on how compatible it is of course) and the SVG WG would surely help out too

<DanC> (hmm... realizing I'm now supposed to do the W3C team coordination stuff... maybe I should ask again for help with table-headers)

<MikeSmith> issue-35?

<trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- Need to define processing requirements for aria states and properties when used in html -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35

<DanC> (since GR no longer has write access to tracker, his actions should be reassinged)

<hober> re: issue-35, do the aria people know about hsivonen's aria/html5 integration work?

ISSUE-35 aria-processing

<hsivonen> hober: they are aware of it

<smedero> DanC: Who should GR's actions go to? Someone else with Tracker write access who is also active in the PFWG?

<DanC> MS: hixie's point about conformance seems more important than the point about openness (cf http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html )

<DanC> yes, smedero ... e.g. joshue

<hsivonen> I sent a bunch of feedback in March: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2008JanMar/

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html

<MikeSmith> "ARIA specifications lack clear normative conformance criteria"

<smedero> Relevant section of current WAI-ARIA draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#impl_nonamespace "Implementation in HTML and other markup languages without requiring namespace support "


<DanC> ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-07-31].

any other critical business?

Next meeting

<MikeSmith> chair for next week is ChrisWilson


Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]