IRC log of html-wg on 2008-07-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:00:46 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
- 16:00:46 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-irc
- 16:00:48 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:00:50 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be HTML
- 16:00:50 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
- 16:00:51 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
- 16:00:51 [trackbot]
- Date: 24 July 2008
- 16:01:09 [MikeSmith]
- Chair: MikeSmith
- 16:01:40 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, call Mike
- 16:01:40 [Zakim]
- ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
- 16:01:42 [Zakim]
- +Mike
- 16:01:53 [Zakim]
- + +1.425.646.aaaa
- 16:02:03 [smedero]
- Zakim, aaaa is smedero
- 16:02:03 [Zakim]
- +smedero; got it
- 16:02:16 [Zakim]
- +laura
- 16:02:30 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, +1.425 is ChrisWilson
- 16:02:30 [Zakim]
- sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425'
- 16:02:40 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, 425 is ChrisWilson
- 16:02:40 [Zakim]
- sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '425'
- 16:02:43 [MikeSmith]
- hmm
- 16:03:08 [Julian]
- Zakim, +1.425.646 is ChrisWilson
- 16:03:10 [Zakim]
- sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425.646'
- 16:03:37 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:03:37 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, smedero, laura
- 16:04:01 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:04:35 [smedero]
- 425 was me. :)
- 16:04:39 [smedero]
- as noted in above
- 16:04:47 [smedero]
- I'm the other crazy person in Seattle.
- 16:04:49 [hsivonen]
- hsivonen has joined #html-wg
- 16:05:03 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC.a
- 16:05:03 [ChrisWilson]
- hey, wait a second...
- 16:05:09 [smedero]
- ;-)
- 16:05:11 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 16:05:11 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
- 16:05:33 [MikeSmith]
- scribenick: ChrisWilson
- 16:05:41 [MikeSmith]
- scribe: ChrisWilson
- 16:06:02 [Laura]
- Josh is on vacation for the next two weeks. Sends his regrets.
- 16:06:02 [Julian]
- q+
- 16:06:04 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 16:06:12 [ed_work]
- Zakim, ??P2 is me
- 16:06:12 [Zakim]
- +ed_work; got it
- 16:06:17 [ChrisWilson]
- any other agenda items?
- 16:06:32 [MikeSmith]
- agenda: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
- 16:06:51 [MikeSmith]
- Topic: Convene meeting, review agenda
- 16:07:41 [ChrisWilson]
- cw: did want to make sure people looked at tracker definitions:
- 16:07:48 [smedero]
- http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML
- 16:08:01 [MikeSmith]
- Topic: tracker status definitions
- 16:08:01 [Julian]
- I was thinking about shortly talking about other specs starting to reference HTML5's "URL" definition (AC)
- 16:08:10 [MikeSmith]
- Julian: OK
- 16:08:14 [DanC]
- it still says "PENDINGREVIEW = The Editor has reviewed arguments and edited spec to taste" but the editor doesn't have write access to tracker
- 16:08:15 [DanC]
- q+
- 16:08:20 [Julian]
- q-
- 16:08:43 [DanC]
- last edited 2008-07-23 21:34:40
- 16:10:02 [sampablokuper]
- My apologies to the mtg; I'll have to leave around 17.25 BST.
- 16:10:16 [DanC]
- "Tracker Action State Definitions" looks fine to me
- 16:10:31 [Laura]
- Many thanks for reviewing and editing the Tracker definitions. It is important that people work from the same meanings to attempt shared understanding. It will aid in transparency of process and may help avoid future misunderstandings.
- 16:11:15 [DanC]
- POSTPONED and CLOSED look good. e.g. "POSTPONED = The WG has decided ..."
- 16:14:12 [ChrisWilson]
- q+ to say I think editors probably SHOULD have write access - but issues and actions should only be closed when reviewed in telecon.
- 16:15:11 [DanC]
- q-
- 16:15:30 [Cynthia]
- Cynthia has joined #html-wg
- 16:15:47 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:15:48 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:15:50 [ChrisWilson]
- q-
- 16:16:06 [Cynthia]
- Cynthia switched phones
- 16:17:43 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 16:19:51 [ChrisWilson]
- will do edit to make sure it's clear chairs have responsibility
- 16:20:21 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 16:21:08 [MikeSmith]
- Topic: "URL" definition in HTML5 spec
- 16:23:29 [ChrisWilson]
- "The defn of an HTML URL is an IRI, which allows non-ASCII characters."
- 16:23:57 [ChrisWilson]
- This makes them unsuitable for Access Control, since HTTP does not allow non-ASCII.
- 16:24:47 [gsnedders]
- HTTP defines non-ASCII characters to be interpreted as ISO-8859-1, FWIW
- 16:25:37 [Julian]
- gsnedders: correct, but you really want to go there for IRIs :-)
- 16:26:45 [gsnedders]
- Julian: Well, it isn't worth much :)
- 16:28:12 [DanC]
- 8.2.2.1. Determining the character encoding
- 16:28:33 [DanC]
- any volunteers to make 8.2.2.1. Determining the character encoding a separate spec so XHR can cite it?
- 16:29:18 [DanC]
- I'm interested to give it a try, though I'm not as expert on character encoding issues as others
- 16:29:31 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 16:30:13 [DanC]
- there's a wierd "3" in http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML
- 16:30:14 [smedero]
- I think Section 2.3 URLs references a different section on character encoding though...
- 16:30:19 [smedero]
- http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#character3
- 16:31:10 [DanC]
- last edited 2008-07-24 14:58:41
- 16:31:30 [DanC]
- +1 "Only the chairs should move actions to 'closed'. Typically moving actions from PENDINGREVIEW to CLOSED will involve review in the weekly telecon. "
- 16:32:16 [MikeSmith]
- action-79?
- 16:32:16 [trackbot]
- ACTION-79 does not exists
- 16:32:19 [MikeSmith]
- action-70?
- 16:32:19 [trackbot]
- ACTION-70 -- Chris Wilson to review/edit tracker definitions: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML?action=show#head-47c0b55d661dcf93f76d586ddbe292c9abc597e4 -- due 2008-07-24 -- CLOSED
- 16:32:19 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/70
- 16:32:48 [MikeSmith]
- action-71?
- 16:32:48 [trackbot]
- ACTION-71 -- Chris Wilson to bring up SVG/DOM issue on list -- due 2008-07-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:32:48 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/71
- 16:32:52 [DanC]
- Topic: SVG in HTML
- 16:33:02 [DanC]
- Zakim, is Doug here?
- 16:33:02 [Zakim]
- DanC, I do not see Doug anywhere
- 16:35:01 [DanC]
- MikeSmith, did you say he intends to implement the SVG WG proposal?
- 16:35:05 [DanC]
- ah. yes.
- 16:35:39 [DanC]
- Andrew Sidwell <w3c@andrewsidwell.co.uk>
- 16:36:46 [smedero]
- Andrew is working on Hubub: http://www.netsurf-browser.org/projects/hubbub/
- 16:36:55 [smedero]
- "Hubbub is an HTML5 compliant parsing library, written in C. It is currently in development for use with NetSurf and is intended to be suitable for use in other projects too. For further details, see the readme.
- 16:37:01 [DanC]
- q+ to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents draw circles and such
- 16:38:19 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 16:40:32 [DanC]
- CW: good question; it seems to come down to whether the test says "you have to either draw the circle or show the fallback" or "you have to show the circle"
- 16:40:42 [adele]
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- 16:40:44 [ChrisWilson]
- MS/DC/CW discussing testing, and the implications of embedding vocabularies
- 16:41:03 [DanC]
- ack danc
- 16:41:03 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents draw circles and such
- 16:42:21 [ChrisWilson]
- DC raises the issue of "optional features"
- 16:42:36 [Philip]
- The test could just say "the DOM must contain an element with namespaceURI 'http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' localName 'circle'"
- 16:42:48 [krijnh]
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- 16:43:05 [DanC]
- (4.1. Well-defined Behavior seems to be relevant; doesn't quite say "optional features suck; don't go there." http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#well-defined-behavior )
- 16:43:06 [ChrisWilson]
- MS: if it were up to me, I'd mandate SVG support
- 16:43:24 [Krijn]
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- 16:43:36 [ChrisWilson]
- CW: not crazy - but we would have to mandate a particular version/scope of SVG, and make sure the test suite for HTML5 tests it thoroughly
- 16:44:35 [DanC]
- (tracker crumbs: ISSUE-37 html-svg-mathml )
- 16:44:57 [Philip]
- It's the same as what happens if you do <script>document.createElementNS('http://my.fancy.spec/', 'circle')</script> in HTML - it's a well-defined operation as far as HTML/DOM is concerned, and we don't care how it gets rendered since that's somebody else's problem
- 16:45:26 [ChrisWilson]
- Philip: it's not an SEP.
- 16:45:39 [smedero]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0318.html
- 16:45:43 [smedero]
- Al Gilman
- 16:45:43 [ChrisWilson]
- MS: Thanks Dan, ya been hepful. :)
- 16:45:46 [Philip]
- (In relation to optional features, I've been (successfully) pushing to make the optional features in <canvas> be mandatory - options are annoying)
- 16:47:26 [ed_work]
- regarding tests for svg in html, there may well be existing testcases from the CDF WG to re-use (depending on how compatible it is of course) and the SVG WG would surely help out too
- 16:48:54 [DanC]
- (hmm... realizing I'm now supposed to do the W3C team coordination stuff... maybe I should ask again for help with table-headers)
- 16:49:35 [MikeSmith]
- issue-35?
- 16:49:35 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-35 -- Need to define processing requirements for aria states and properties when used in html -- OPEN
- 16:49:35 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35
- 16:50:06 [DanC]
- (since GR no longer has write access to tracker, his actions should be reassinged)
- 16:50:30 [hober]
- re: issue-35, do the aria people know about hsivonen's aria/html5 integration work?
- 16:51:23 [DanC]
- Topic: ISSUE-35 aria-processing
- 16:51:49 [hsivonen]
- hober: they are aware of it
- 16:52:08 [smedero]
- DanC: Who should GR's actions go to? Someone else with Tracker write access who is also active in the PFWG?
- 16:52:10 [DanC]
- MS: hixie's point about conformance seems more important than the point about openness (cf http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html )
- 16:52:24 [DanC]
- yes, smedero ... e.g. joshue
- 16:52:54 [hsivonen]
- I sent a bunch of feedback in March: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2008JanMar/
- 16:53:58 [MikeSmith]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0300.html
- 16:54:06 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:54:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 16:54:09 [Cynthia]
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- 16:54:46 [MikeSmith]
- "ARIA specifications lack clear normative conformance criteria"
- 16:56:31 [smedero]
- Relevant section of current WAI-ARIA draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#impl_nonamespace "Implementation in HTML and other markup languages without requiring namespace support "
- 16:56:48 [ChrisWilson]
- 1
- 16:58:07 [DanC]
- ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point
- 16:58:07 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-73 - Follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-07-31].
- 16:58:24 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:58:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 16:58:24 [ChrisWilson]
- any other critical business?
- 16:58:48 [MikeSmith]
- Topic: Next meeting
- 16:59:22 [MikeSmith]
- chair for next week is ChrisWilson
- 16:59:41 [ChrisWilson]
- adjourned.
- 16:59:43 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:59:45 [Zakim]
- -smedero
- 16:59:46 [Zakim]
- -ChrisWilson
- 16:59:46 [Zakim]
- -ed_work
- 16:59:48 [Zakim]
- -Julian
- 16:59:57 [Zakim]
- -Mike
- 16:59:58 [smedero]
- Enjoy your vacation MikeSmith!
- 17:00:06 [MikeSmith]
- smedero: arigatou
- 17:00:13 [Zakim]
- -laura
- 17:00:14 [MikeSmith]
- will be nice to get out of the Tokyo heat
- 17:00:20 [MikeSmith]
- and into the Denver heat
- 17:00:31 [smedero]
- Come to Seattle where it is summer and uh
- 17:00:38 [smedero]
- 60F / 15.7C
- 17:00:41 [smedero]
- heh
- 17:01:38 [gsnedders]
- Come to St Andrews where it is summer and 14°C
- 17:01:43 [smedero]
- even better.
- 17:02:16 [gsnedders]
- (oddly, I've managed to get more of a tan here than in Berlin)
- 17:02:17 [Philip]
- According to the internet, it's 25C in Cambridge, but fortunately I'm in a nice cool building
- 17:02:51 [gsnedders]
- Berlin seemed to be having a rainy summer judging from when I was there
- 17:02:54 [smedero]
- For two days this week it didn't even get into the 70s... high was like 64 or 68. Rejoice! I think it was 93F~ on the east coast of the US.
- 17:03:01 [gsnedders]
- Still the coolest day was 17°C
- 17:12:13 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, bye
- 17:12:13 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, +1.425.646.aaaa, smedero, laura, Cynthia_Shelly, ed_work, [Microsoft]
- 17:12:13 [Zakim]
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- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:12:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
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