IRC log of html-wg on 2008-07-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:00:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
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logging to
16:00:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML
16:00:50 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
16:00:51 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
16:00:51 [trackbot]
Date: 24 July 2008
16:01:09 [MikeSmith]
Chair: MikeSmith
16:01:40 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike
16:01:40 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:01:42 [Zakim]
16:01:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.646.aaaa
16:02:03 [smedero]
Zakim, aaaa is smedero
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+smedero; got it
16:02:16 [Zakim]
16:02:30 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, +1.425 is ChrisWilson
16:02:30 [Zakim]
sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425'
16:02:40 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, 425 is ChrisWilson
16:02:40 [Zakim]
sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named '425'
16:02:43 [MikeSmith]
16:03:08 [Julian]
Zakim, +1.425.646 is ChrisWilson
16:03:10 [Zakim]
sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425.646'
16:03:37 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, smedero, laura
16:04:01 [Zakim]
16:04:35 [smedero]
425 was me. :)
16:04:39 [smedero]
as noted in above
16:04:47 [smedero]
I'm the other crazy person in Seattle.
16:04:49 [hsivonen]
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16:05:03 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:03 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC.a
16:05:03 [ChrisWilson]
hey, wait a second...
16:05:09 [smedero]
16:05:11 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:11 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
16:05:33 [MikeSmith]
scribenick: ChrisWilson
16:05:41 [MikeSmith]
scribe: ChrisWilson
16:06:02 [Laura]
Josh is on vacation for the next two weeks. Sends his regrets.
16:06:02 [Julian]
16:06:04 [Zakim]
16:06:12 [ed_work]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
16:06:12 [Zakim]
+ed_work; got it
16:06:17 [ChrisWilson]
any other agenda items?
16:06:32 [MikeSmith]
16:06:51 [MikeSmith]
Topic: Convene meeting, review agenda
16:07:41 [ChrisWilson]
cw: did want to make sure people looked at tracker definitions:
16:07:48 [smedero]
16:08:01 [MikeSmith]
Topic: tracker status definitions
16:08:01 [Julian]
I was thinking about shortly talking about other specs starting to reference HTML5's "URL" definition (AC)
16:08:10 [MikeSmith]
Julian: OK
16:08:14 [DanC]
it still says "PENDINGREVIEW = The Editor has reviewed arguments and edited spec to taste" but the editor doesn't have write access to tracker
16:08:15 [DanC]
16:08:20 [Julian]
16:08:43 [DanC]
last edited 2008-07-23 21:34:40
16:10:02 [sampablokuper]
My apologies to the mtg; I'll have to leave around 17.25 BST.
16:10:16 [DanC]
"Tracker Action State Definitions" looks fine to me
16:10:31 [Laura]
Many thanks for reviewing and editing the Tracker definitions. It is important that people work from the same meanings to attempt shared understanding. It will aid in transparency of process and may help avoid future misunderstandings.
16:11:15 [DanC]
POSTPONED and CLOSED look good. e.g. "POSTPONED = The WG has decided ..."
16:14:12 [ChrisWilson]
q+ to say I think editors probably SHOULD have write access - but issues and actions should only be closed when reviewed in telecon.
16:15:11 [DanC]
16:15:30 [Cynthia]
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16:15:47 [Zakim]
16:15:48 [Zakim]
16:15:50 [ChrisWilson]
16:16:06 [Cynthia]
Cynthia switched phones
16:17:43 [MikeSmith]
16:19:51 [ChrisWilson]
will do edit to make sure it's clear chairs have responsibility
16:20:21 [MikeSmith]
16:21:08 [MikeSmith]
Topic: "URL" definition in HTML5 spec
16:23:29 [ChrisWilson]
"The defn of an HTML URL is an IRI, which allows non-ASCII characters."
16:23:57 [ChrisWilson]
This makes them unsuitable for Access Control, since HTTP does not allow non-ASCII.
16:24:47 [gsnedders]
HTTP defines non-ASCII characters to be interpreted as ISO-8859-1, FWIW
16:25:37 [Julian]
gsnedders: correct, but you really want to go there for IRIs :-)
16:26:45 [gsnedders]
Julian: Well, it isn't worth much :)
16:28:12 [DanC] Determining the character encoding
16:28:33 [DanC]
any volunteers to make Determining the character encoding a separate spec so XHR can cite it?
16:29:18 [DanC]
I'm interested to give it a try, though I'm not as expert on character encoding issues as others
16:29:31 [MikeSmith]
16:30:13 [DanC]
there's a wierd "3" in
16:30:14 [smedero]
I think Section 2.3 URLs references a different section on character encoding though...
16:30:19 [smedero]
16:31:10 [DanC]
last edited 2008-07-24 14:58:41
16:31:30 [DanC]
+1 "Only the chairs should move actions to 'closed'. Typically moving actions from PENDINGREVIEW to CLOSED will involve review in the weekly telecon. "
16:32:16 [MikeSmith]
16:32:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-79 does not exists
16:32:19 [MikeSmith]
16:32:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-70 -- Chris Wilson to review/edit tracker definitions: -- due 2008-07-24 -- CLOSED
16:32:19 [trackbot]
16:32:48 [MikeSmith]
16:32:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-71 -- Chris Wilson to bring up SVG/DOM issue on list -- due 2008-07-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:32:48 [trackbot]
16:32:52 [DanC]
Topic: SVG in HTML
16:33:02 [DanC]
Zakim, is Doug here?
16:33:02 [Zakim]
DanC, I do not see Doug anywhere
16:35:01 [DanC]
MikeSmith, did you say he intends to implement the SVG WG proposal?
16:35:05 [DanC]
ah. yes.
16:35:39 [DanC]
Andrew Sidwell <>
16:36:46 [smedero]
Andrew is working on Hubub:
16:36:55 [smedero]
"Hubbub is an HTML5 compliant parsing library, written in C. It is currently in development for use with NetSurf and is intended to be suitable for use in other projects too. For further details, see the readme.
16:37:01 [DanC]
q+ to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents draw circles and such
16:38:19 [MikeSmith]
16:40:32 [DanC]
CW: good question; it seems to come down to whether the test says "you have to either draw the circle or show the fallback" or "you have to show the circle"
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16:40:44 [ChrisWilson]
MS/DC/CW discussing testing, and the implications of embedding vocabularies
16:41:03 [DanC]
ack danc
16:41:03 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to clarify whether the proposal is to tweak the HTML 5 parsing algorithm or to require that HTML user agents draw circles and such
16:42:21 [ChrisWilson]
DC raises the issue of "optional features"
16:42:36 [Philip]
The test could just say "the DOM must contain an element with namespaceURI '' localName 'circle'"
16:42:48 [krijnh]
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16:43:05 [DanC]
(4.1. Well-defined Behavior seems to be relevant; doesn't quite say "optional features suck; don't go there." )
16:43:06 [ChrisWilson]
MS: if it were up to me, I'd mandate SVG support
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16:43:36 [ChrisWilson]
CW: not crazy - but we would have to mandate a particular version/scope of SVG, and make sure the test suite for HTML5 tests it thoroughly
16:44:35 [DanC]
(tracker crumbs: ISSUE-37 html-svg-mathml )
16:44:57 [Philip]
It's the same as what happens if you do <script>document.createElementNS('http://my.fancy.spec/', 'circle')</script> in HTML - it's a well-defined operation as far as HTML/DOM is concerned, and we don't care how it gets rendered since that's somebody else's problem
16:45:26 [ChrisWilson]
Philip: it's not an SEP.
16:45:39 [smedero]
16:45:43 [smedero]
Al Gilman
16:45:43 [ChrisWilson]
MS: Thanks Dan, ya been hepful. :)
16:45:46 [Philip]
(In relation to optional features, I've been (successfully) pushing to make the optional features in <canvas> be mandatory - options are annoying)
16:47:26 [ed_work]
regarding tests for svg in html, there may well be existing testcases from the CDF WG to re-use (depending on how compatible it is of course) and the SVG WG would surely help out too
16:48:54 [DanC]
(hmm... realizing I'm now supposed to do the W3C team coordination stuff... maybe I should ask again for help with table-headers)
16:49:35 [MikeSmith]
16:49:35 [trackbot]
ISSUE-35 -- Need to define processing requirements for aria states and properties when used in html -- OPEN
16:49:35 [trackbot]
16:50:06 [DanC]
(since GR no longer has write access to tracker, his actions should be reassinged)
16:50:30 [hober]
re: issue-35, do the aria people know about hsivonen's aria/html5 integration work?
16:51:23 [DanC]
Topic: ISSUE-35 aria-processing
16:51:49 [hsivonen]
hober: they are aware of it
16:52:08 [smedero]
DanC: Who should GR's actions go to? Someone else with Tracker write access who is also active in the PFWG?
16:52:10 [DanC]
MS: hixie's point about conformance seems more important than the point about openness (cf )
16:52:24 [DanC]
yes, smedero ... e.g. joshue
16:52:54 [hsivonen]
I sent a bunch of feedback in March:
16:53:58 [MikeSmith]
16:54:06 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:54:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MikeSmith
16:54:09 [Cynthia]
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16:54:46 [MikeSmith]
"ARIA specifications lack clear normative conformance criteria"
16:56:31 [smedero]
Relevant section of current WAI-ARIA draft: "Implementation in HTML and other markup languages without requiring namespace support "
16:56:48 [ChrisWilson]
16:58:07 [DanC]
ACTION: Dan follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point
16:58:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-73 - Follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-07-31].
16:58:24 [MikeSmith]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:58:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MikeSmith
16:58:24 [ChrisWilson]
any other critical business?
16:58:48 [MikeSmith]
Topic: Next meeting
16:59:22 [MikeSmith]
chair for next week is ChrisWilson
16:59:41 [ChrisWilson]
16:59:43 [Zakim]
16:59:45 [Zakim]
16:59:46 [Zakim]
16:59:46 [Zakim]
16:59:48 [Zakim]
16:59:57 [Zakim]
16:59:58 [smedero]
Enjoy your vacation MikeSmith!
17:00:06 [MikeSmith]
smedero: arigatou
17:00:13 [Zakim]
17:00:14 [MikeSmith]
will be nice to get out of the Tokyo heat
17:00:20 [MikeSmith]
and into the Denver heat
17:00:31 [smedero]
Come to Seattle where it is summer and uh
17:00:38 [smedero]
60F / 15.7C
17:00:41 [smedero]
17:01:38 [gsnedders]
Come to St Andrews where it is summer and 14°C
17:01:43 [smedero]
even better.
17:02:16 [gsnedders]
(oddly, I've managed to get more of a tan here than in Berlin)
17:02:17 [Philip]
According to the internet, it's 25C in Cambridge, but fortunately I'm in a nice cool building
17:02:51 [gsnedders]
Berlin seemed to be having a rainy summer judging from when I was there
17:02:54 [smedero]
For two days this week it didn't even get into the 70s... high was like 64 or 68. Rejoice! I think it was 93F~ on the east coast of the US.
17:03:01 [gsnedders]
Still the coolest day was 17°C
17:12:13 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, bye
17:12:13 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Julian, DanC.a, ChrisWilson, Mike, +1.425.646.aaaa, smedero, laura, Cynthia_Shelly, ed_work, [Microsoft]
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RRSAgent, make minutes
17:12:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MikeSmith
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