XHTML2 WG FtF, Venice, Italy, Day 3 -- 20 Feb 2008

(Roland and Yam are here...)

(Steven had a trouble with his foot last night.... He will not be in this room, but will skype in...)

<Roland__> Scribe: Yam

XML Events 2 (continued from yesterday)

<oedipus> morning - hope steve's ok...

Hope so...

His ankle is improved, I heard.

<oedipus> that's good to hear

Roland: we have some issues stated in Agenda.

John's comments in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-xhtml-minutes.html#action02 ?

<Roland__> ScribeNick: yamx

Roland: I just want to know where we are about actions.
... The first part (we clarified it in capture, target, bubble, default), we changed. So the issue is only action (Mark).
... Resolution on Aug 29 2007 said we have to investigate part 2, in 0011 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0011)
... We make default as bubble, but bubble includes "bubble" and "target" phases, so it is OK with the original issue.

<oedipus> roland, are you referring to jon's point: "if the bubble phase does exclude the target phase, then it seems like you will need a way to say target+bubble. For symmetry, I'll bet you need capture+target too. The only names that come to mind right now are"ascent" (target+bubble) and "descent" (capture+target)."

<Roland__> yesterday we concluded that bubble phase includes the target phase. I am now looking to find where in the DOM 3 Events specs that is says this.

Roland: In DOM3 Event, on addEventListener, useCapture parameter is a boolean.
... , which means "capture" or "target and bubbling". only one of them.

<Roland__> Section 1.6 Basic interfaces -- http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/events.html#Events-interface

Roland: it is not so clear, but seems implied.
... All the changes we made deal with 0011 raised by John.
... next issue is 0012 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0012)

<ShaneM> I think 0012 is somewhat incorrect. xml events 2 DOES specify a context.

<ShaneM> see section 6.

Roland: I remembered some discussion with XForms; they added context attribute.
... maybe it is interesting to add context attribute if necessary, but not before we fix the current draft.
... we keep it as it is, we have to further investigate the issue (do we really need this "context" attribute) in XML Events 2.
... We defined the context in Sectoin 6 in XML Events 2.
... Specifying context will be added if we identify any useful use cases.
... Add a note about this (considering in the future in action element).

Shane: OK.

Roland: 0012 is done.
... next issue is 0013 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0013)

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to add text about context issue near where if and while are described with the action element in xml events 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

Roland: we think that event does not traverse to more than one DOM.
... spelled out single DOM.

<Roland__> John's note includes : Therefore, for the sake of clarity, please spell out the fact that the

<Roland__> spec does not define any bubbling behavior between two DOMs and that

<Roland__> events don't traverse more than one DOM unless a consumer of XML events

<Roland__> defines a mechanism for dispatching events in one DOM based on the

<Roland__> occurrence of events in another DOM.

<Roland__> I would have expected that a "single DOM" was assumed but it appears not to be the case.

<alessio> simone is coming back soon

Roland: no harm to put a small note about single DOM, not bridging two DOMs.

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane add a note that events do not bridge two DOMs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

<Roland__> We could add a note to make it clear that the capture/bubbling is within the scope of a single DOM.

<alessio> Hope you're feeling better, Steven...

<Steven-eee> it is even better than first thing this morning Alessio, so I am optimitic

<Steven-eee> stic

Roland: looking into the second problem in 0013.

(the second issue is "For the second problem, I have to turn to the xforms repeat construct, and put a repeat within a repeat:")

Roland: we will probably solve the second issue, too. Hope John will review the latest spec to find out whether his issue is fixed.
... we think we fiinshed all outstanding issues in XML Events 2.

Shane: I have a question about event attribute.
... event attribute collection.

Roland: I imagine it is adequate.

Shane: working with new draft.

Roland: sounds good.
... any more items on XML Events 2?

(none from participants)

frames (continued from yesterda)

Roland: suggests iframe back in XHTML2.
... two types of containers should be clarified.

<Steven-eee> Gregory, I believe we accepted that proposal

<Steven-eee> to add 'implements'

<ShaneM> I believe we did as well (@implements)

<oedipus> thank you steven - i just wanted to make sure before we moved on

<ShaneM> my plan is to add a comment about HASFEATURE and let someone smarter figure it out.

<oedipus> that excludes me...

<ShaneM> clearly ;-)

<oedipus> ;-)

(Allesio presents something on the projector.)

<alessio> yes steven, I will

<Roland__> network has slowed down now that we are sahing with WAI PF meeting next door :-)

<alessio> so, we are analyzing the question of fallback for iframes

<alessio> because one "classical" issue is the iframe poor accessibility

<oedipus> many assistive technologies offer a "do not display iframe" option; for low vision users and alternate input users, it's the insane amount of scrolling

<oedipus> GJR: that's how bad the problem is -- AT vendors would rather have people suppress IFRAME than design an alternate strategy

Yam: Combining multiple documents is some essential one, possibly some umbrella spec, e.g. XML Events 2. Not iframes back in.

<oedipus> +1 to yam

<alessio> right gregory, in fact we're only starting to explore a possibility to make an accessible object

<alessio> unfortunately actually object is very buggy

<Steven-eee> but we shouldn't let our *design* be constrained by existing buggy implementations

<alessio> for example we cannot load dynamic data, even reloaded the page

<oedipus> yes, i just had that conversation in the HTML WG for the ten thousdandth time this week -- OBJECT with role over VIDEO, AUDIO, other stuff

<Steven-eee> if necessary we make an 'acid test' for objec to embarrass the implementors

<alessio> I agree steven

<oedipus> me too

<alessio> in fact that I'm started to do yesterday :)

<oedipus> moving forward, into the future, ARIA politeness levels and other features will help with dynamic content accessibility

<alessio> the goal is having a url like this: http://mypage.htm#src(f1=firstAddress,f2=secondAddress)

<Roland__> we are just starting to look at what we would need from a new "container". Some of the the desirable characteristics of IFRAME should be explored. We are not suggesting that we reintroduce IFRAME as is was previously defined.

<Steven> object test

<alessio> yes

<Steven> Object test results (not up to date)

<Roland__> one characteristic we need is a separate security context

<ShaneM> I think that data in an "iframe" should be in its own DOM really. its a separate, inset document. There should be no ability to communicate across the boundary.

Allesio: We have to introduce a method to load a content in a dynamic manner.

<ShaneM> you mean other than webapi/ajax?

sounds like.

<alessio> yes shane

<ShaneM> and other than the src attribute we already have that a script/handler could just change?

<Roland__> Rather than "no ability" I believe the author of the containing document should determine what, if any, ability it wishes to grant the "iframe".

<alessio> test url (kindly hosted by simone): http://w3c.onofri.org/test.htm#src(f1=http://www.google.it,f2=http://www.w3.org)

<alessio> yesterday I've tried to load dynamic content both in an object and iframe

<alessio> object seems not to refresh its "data" attribute

<alessio> iframe does refresh its "src"

Roland: Simone, what do people think iframes are bad.. ?
... so not a problem on iframes, but issues with people's use of javascript.

<Steven> iframes test doesn't work for me Opera, FF, IE

<Roland__> 06rrsagent, make minutes01

<alessio> maybe there are some problems with security policies, steven

<Steven-eee> yes

<alessio> Roland: anyway this is a problem we have to handle

<Simone> as per default, browsers does not load something if there are not on the same domain of master page, this is an important issue on AJAXy applications and as I see this is resolved using a proxy (server side)

<alessio> true

<ShaneM> I think the network did drop

<Steven-eee> sound quality is not good enough to hear

(we have problems to show the loaded frames example.)

(Our network is very bad...)

(We are talking about the framework of container and needs for standardization in general.)

<Steven-eee> (we noticed :-) )

<Roland__> some discussion about what aspects of "container" support we should tackle as part of XHTML

<alessio> maybe this workss: http://w3c.onofri.org/test.xml#src(f1=http://www.google.it,f2=http://www.w3.org)

<Roland__> perhaps the container topic should be in a separate spec like we have done for XML events

But it is OK to talk it in XHTML2 framework, we can make it a separate spec if we find it appropriate in the future.

<Simone> for example, problem maybe the MIME type shipped by the server

<ShaneM> good point.

<Simone> now is XML and works

From my viewpoint, to describe logical relationships of multiple docs and to describe some screen layout info for multiple (possiblly ) indpendent applications are two different things.

Roland: we will have a few minutes break, and have a joint meeting with WAI.

Yam: do we have a meeting at WAI?

<Steven-eee> which channel?

Roland: a good question. possibly at their place.

<oedipus> the PF group is in #pf

<Roland__> probably theirs as there are more of them

Yam: I agree.

<Steven-eee> how long break?

<Steven-eee> Long enouhg for me to shuffle to the cafe?

<Roland__> till they return, so hopefully not long. estimate 5-10mins

<Roland__> WAI group joining us

<Roland__> slowly assembling

<Roland__> we will use #pf channel for this first part of joint session

<oedipus> ok

(after lunch break, we resume at #xhtml)

<scribe> Scribe: Yam

ARIA

Al: I will present the overview.
... for kick-it-off.
... ARIA suite is on 1st working draft.
... this is already very close to last call, with a bunch of markups..
... engineering decision on browser behavior is close to "complete".
... New, first time to combine role and states in one document.
... the other new thing is an approach embedding ARIA markup in a host language.
... we have two approaches, friendly to HTML5, the other is friendly to XHMTL1/XHTML2.
... included role attribute is used in HTML5-friendly way.
... new writeup should be reviewed by XHTML2-WG, is it a deal you sign up to?
... to look for Firefox and Opera people to check its validity for them.
... missing something, raising a question about predefined role names..

Long-winded

Al: long-winded, (someone talking for a long time....)
... predefined role names, how do you model web pages?

<MichaelC_VCE> -> ARIA Implementation in Host Languages http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-wai-aria-20080204/#implementation

Al: any outstanding issues between ARIA and XHTML2.

Michael: one is name-space friendly version; the other for HTML5, it is similar to role attributes: two wordings..

Al: CURIE.
... we should talk about access element, also.
... RDFa will come out last call shortly.
... we have to raise it, anything to be constructive...
... we are sure access module and role module to be covered.

CURIE

Roland: hopefully short...

Yam: any possible issues from ARIA?

Al: colon and attribute, a browser bug, a lexical issue, be an interest to ARIA.
... any issues with CURIE syntax.
... no issue.

<Rich> s/CUIRE/CURIE/

RDFa syntax

Al: want to make sure nothing to be talked on RDFa syntax. is that true?

Micheal: question. prefix part reference, similar to scheme name. any potential collision? room for clarification?

Shane: checking

Micheal: technical issue or educational issue?

<oedipus> we should address the PF's response to XHTML2 WG that RDFa didn't suffice for requested predefined role "title" in Role comments

Shane: describing clarification about "for-human" and "for-machine". like qname..

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane add a note that there is a risk that humans might perceive a CURIE as a URI. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

Al: text of URI, point of crack user, cognitive factor, anything confusing people...

<ShaneM> Note that CURIEs have EXACTLY the same problem as QNames with respect to humans potentially misinterpreting them.

Al: RDFa is a way to inject a project as such, accessibility issue is uptake, not design of technology. We have desire for metadata, aligned to practical use.

Roland: OK. done.

Access module

Al: Access module replaces capability of accesskey in HTML4.
... one point, came up to argument, action has to be adaptable (personalizable).
... summary of that argument was display processing, going to element, assistive technology, before authorized action.
... in the middle of form, ... in that example..
... other users, with requirements "just do it", not focusing detailed sequence.

Roland: binary selection by a boolean.

Al: Practically, boolean may be OK.

<ShaneM> We currently have language about the key attribute that discusses how agents must be able to override: The character assigned to a key, and its relationship to a role or id attribute, are a suggestion of the author. User agents may provide mechanisms for overriding, disabling, or re-assigning keys. In such user agents, user-specified assignments must take precendence. If no key attribute is specified, the user agent SHOULD assign a key.

Al: like IETF, security considerations. We need accessibility considerations. Micheal, you are genius.

<ShaneM> Similar language should be in the document for the activate attribute.

Al: Activate or not may be appropriate.

Shane: user can overwrite. Good.

<oedipus> 2 birds with one stone dept. -- that satisfies the UAAG requirement

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to add language to seciton 3.1.1 of xhtml-access to require user agent override of the activate attribute setting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action04]

Roland: sounds good. some consensus here.

Al: this is all, any other issue for moving on.

<oedipus> i think UAAG will be happy with this, too

Role attribute

Roland: second last call, when available, Shane?

<oedipus> FYI: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-xhtml-minutes.html#item03

Roland: Jan 28 is the most recent for Role attribute.

<Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20080128/

<oedipus> contains discussion of Role from yesterday

Al: did not understand the conventions...
... in red? deleted items?
... other issues definitions of the predefined roles.

Roland: available as chameleon, both are available.

Al: chameleon, not a practice in namespace..
... you can.

<oedipus> you SHOULD, i believe is the term

Roland: could be embedded into their namespaces.
... there are three possibilities.

Al: understand from the perspectives.
... SVG has problems..
... newsML has choices, three choices.
... attributes does not obtain the namespace of element.

<oedipus> NewsML: http://www.newsml.org/

Roland: first discussion, how you do in your namespaces.

Al: we don't have anything to talk about, at the moment.

Roland: values of role attributes, the second discussion.

Al: talk about the semantics of predefined values.
... Micheal how those values are understood. Al, for application semantics.

Roland: semantics, first to cover Al's.

<oedipus> semantics at the "grossest" level

<oedipus> yes that was shane

Roland: Section 3. predefined values, starting from banner.

Al: processing api binding layer, to me, semantics of the role attributes. need to be understood there.

Shane: it is great, but not in role attr spec, but in accessibility spec.

Roland: semantic container.

Al: functionally, working.
... synchronized about those approaches.

Roland: must be machine processible, one of them should be RDFa. yesterday discussion.

<ShaneM> New version of xhtml-access with requirement for @activate override is up at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080220/

Al: banner. entire front matter of web pages needed.

<ShaneM> Note that it is formatted as a FPWG not an ED. I will fix that.

Al: basically same idea, but how clearly explain to humans..

Micheal: need rewording.
... English problem (British English, American ), some sort of clarifications.

Al: designers with span, div, ... we have to talk to those people.
... historically, came from Rich.

<GerrieS> Good morning

Shane: you can edit anything there. XHTML-WG has no stick to these wordings.

<ShaneM> rewrite the role definitions, please!!!

Micheal: we can work tomorrow.

<GerrieS> Skype?

<GerrieS> gshults

Al: not much on contentinfo. needs a use case.
... role for collecting meta data.

<ShaneM> Note that the xhtml 2 working group hoped to take role to last call very soon, so if you all could give us updated text this week it would be AWESOME!

Al: no strong problem the way handled in contentinfo.

Roland: definition.

Micheal: confused.

Al: context of symbol (dfn in this case).

<ShaneM> Use case of definition might be having a user agent create a glossary via role that I can pick from when reading a document.

Al: we don't need role to reproduce dfn..

<oedipus> al, are you talking about <dfn id="wai-ex"><acronym title="Web Accessibility Initiative">WAI</acronym></dfn>

<oedipus> as a reuse method?

Al: Michel's point is how we can make future-proof. interesting point.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/#defining

Al: host-language specific definition.

<oedipus> (it's on the HTML5 issues list for friday)

Roland: regend example.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/#the-dfn

Michel: OK about Al's argument.

Roland: next one is main.

Al: main content may be multiple domains.
... four or five top stories.

<scribe> ACTION: Al to address grouping main content in one region as much as possible, in best practices. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action05]

Roland: moving on navigation.

Al: hot keys, ..
... focus and fire.
... browsers provide hotkey to go to navigation, all blocks in somewhere,not any case, unique.
... any issues with navigation? No.

Roland: next, note.

Al: they are sections.
... main thing about note, bidirectional navigation by user agent.

Micheal: how you can attach note?
... how about inline note?

Al: Hmmm.

Shane: i want user agent to suppress the inline note.

Al: describing three predefined note configuration to cope with diverse user needs.

<oedipus> GJR: endnote different from footnote -- i would assign them different audio cues

<oedipus> GJR: explanatory versus reference notes

Roland: decribing Appendix C to Al.
... Taxonomy part.

Al: we are OK with note.

Roland: next is search.
... you can wordsmith..

Al: we can wordsmith, but general idea is agreed.

Roland: next is secondary.

Al: PF should wordsmith.
... separate work. It matters how you word.
... norole.
... no role attribute.
... PF assignment for seealso.
... PF will make a status report at the end of this week, about wordsmithing these.
... PF recognized the Shane's shout about "we are close to last call, give us the updated text this week, then it is AWESOME".

Michel: don't understand CURIE , doe not provide prefix.

<ShaneM> Role spec says: If the prefix is omitted from a CURIE, the default value of http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab# MUST be used.

Micheal: OK. let me check...
... it is not same in HTML5. I just want to make sure.
... do we have future harmonization? or differences.

Michael: three choices, do nothing, to this name space, the third, basically aria role.

Al: browsers do no namespace versions.
... we decided to put up with them.

Micheal: HTML, ARIA, we cannot use both? they will have the questions..

<ShaneM> I am certain you will get last call objections to this, fwiw.

Micheal: it could kill our last call...

<ShaneM> I would not object to having the aria role values included in the vocab# vocabulary space

Micheal: this is the name space with XHTML, not html/1999.
... it is completely separate. so we can deal with it. Not the issue with HTML5.

Shane: it is vacab name space.

Roland: they defined in role attribute spec are usable without any prefix.
... our list of predefined can be longer, in response to Micheal.

Shane: we can dereference by URL.
... we start populating there.

Al: agreement in princeple, same way, because developing external doc is. Shane and Micheal are contact points.

Micheal: OK, I am happy.

Al: joint meeting is over.

Roland: I would like to check.

Yam: I think all are covered.

Alessio: OK.

Simone: OK.

(joint meeting adjourned.)

<Roland_> break now, reconvene in 20mins in separate groups

<oedipus> simone, do you want to resume in 20 minutes?

<ShaneM> I suggest Tesla - wake me up

<oedipus> either that or anything by the ramones....

<oedipus> FYI: http://www.daisy.org/z3986/2005/Z3986-2005.html#Skip "skippable" structures

<oedipus> DAISY defines 2 types of notes - "noterefS" and "annorefS" http://www.daisy.org/z3986/2005/Z3986-2005.html#Notes

<oedipus> zcorpan, http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-irc for the joint session

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html

<oedipus> sounds as if simone's machine is in the PF room

<myakura> protocols and formats?

<oedipus> tasked with reviewing all specs that are accepted by w3c for accessibility issues/concerns

<oedipus> also developing ARIA (http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/)

<GerrieS> The joint meeting was held on their turf, then?

<oedipus> i'm not quite sure -- i heard a bunch of PF voices, but they may be moving

<oedipus> steven, i'm still carrying gerrie and shane on skype -- do you want me to try you again?

<Steven> yes please

<Steven> sounds like you are in a zoo

<oedipus> it's the sound of 2 WGs breaking up

<Steven> is it all over then?

<GerrieS> Isn't that hard to do? :-)

<Steven> lol

<oedipus> i'm not sure where simone is...

<oedipus> we were going to reconvene separately after the afternoon break

<Roland_> restarting . . .

(we are back from photo-taking)

<oedipus> that's because simone dropped -- i'll call her

<Steven> gregory, I hear your screen reader

<Steven> I assume it's yours

<oedipus> i just muted -- sorry

<oedipus> simone, you need to add gerrie now that you're host

<Simone> ok

<oedipus> thanks we're all back on, i think

roadmap

<oedipus> no, we can hear you, simone

<Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml-roadmap/

<Steven> Yes

<Steven> the TAG

<yamx0> Shane: someone raised XHTML media type?

<Steven> hmm

<Steven> let me try and remember

<oedipus> it might have been on their blog

<oedipus> or wiki

<Steven> Just a moment, looking

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments#UsingRDFa

<Steven> Note: at this time, drafts of the [RDFa] specification are available, but the media-type registration for HTML itself has not been updated to reflect RDFa. As described in TAG Finding [AuthoritativeMetadata], conventions like RDFa are normative only if provided for in the applicable specification for the media-type in which they are used. Thus, for RDFa to be fully integrated with 2 The Web's Standard Retrieval Algorithm, the HTML and/or XHTML media-type regist

<Steven> I don't agree either

<Steven> Yes, I agree Shane

<Steven> I disagree with this comment fromthe TAG

<Steven> This doc (selfdescribingdocs) is currently open for comments

<Steven> so we should send in an official comment from the group

<Steven> I;m willing to word it

<Steven> I'll send a draft to the group

<yamx0> ACTION: Steven to reply to TAG that we disagree. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action06]

<yamx0> Roland: Shane, any other RDFa issues?

<yamx0> Shane: no.

Roland: let's check roadmap and call the f2f week over.
... minor comments from WAI today.
... do they prevent us from going to last call?

<Steven> +1

Shane: completing access module. Can go to last call any time you want.

<oedipus> +1 with edits from today

<ShaneM> Edits from today are http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080220/

<Roland_> can we resolve to go to Last Call for ACCESS Module?

<ShaneM> so I think we are ready to go. +1 from me.

Roland: with no objections, we go forward to access module last call.

<alessio> +1

RESOLUTION: we agreed to go access module last call.

Roland: next one is xFrame.

Alessio: starting some tests, embedding XHTML2 pages..

Roland: we cannot go last call Feb 2008 for xFrames, apprarently.. quite a lot things to cover.
... how about April 2008?
... how about June, we can do something early if we are comfortable.

Yam: it is too optimistic that we can make last call without f2f.

<ShaneM> did we get committment from WAI fols for new Role text this week?

Roland: we agreed to move the last call xFrames to June 2008. No need for resolution to change the date.
... what the date for last call XML Events 2, Shane?

Shane: hopefully in weeks.

Roland: XML Event 2 schedule as it is.

<oedipus> shane, i began to alert the masses (those most interested in Role in PFWG)

Roland: XHTML2, just "2008". not yet to describe any more detailed date.
... XHTML Basic 1.1. We are waiting for transition request... Not much use about speculation of exact date.
... RDFa syntax, last call for Feb 2008?

Shane: we have a last call for 4 weeks.

Roland: last call date is tomorrow. 2 month behind from Dec 2007.

<ShaneM> Note that RDFa does NOT have a schema implementation in it. I think that is editorial but it would be really nice oif we could get M12N done....

Roland: reasonable to delay all schedule for two months?

Shane: fine with 2 months shift.

Roland: how about Primer?

Shane: simplify more with comments.

<ShaneM> LOL

Roland: Primer is not normative, no last call. we ignore them.
... M12N.
... we are optimistic?

<Steven> sorry I was muted

<Steven> I think we can be moderately optimistic

Roland: M12N is in transition request, we will just see what will happen to them.

<Steven> I got a comment from Steve Bratt noting some problems with the spec that have now been fixed

Roland: role, when ready for 2nd last call, Shane?

<Steven> I think we can have a transition call soon

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to ensure all Role attribute module changes are complete by 28 February - including new text from WAI folks. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action07]

Roland: month of March, should be OK.
... CURIE syntax.
... just entering last call.
... we have to see what we will receive during last call. Then, we can decide on the future of CURIE.
... no update on the dates.
... the request is processed, we have to fix, but now it is just to be processed.
... done on roadmap.

f2f meeting plan.

Roland: Cannes with TPAC in october.

<Steven> Cannes

Yam: I cannot join TPAC with overlapped OMA. Regrets.

<Steven> Need a location still for June (is it?)

Roland: next f2f , June 16-18, current plannning, in U.S.A.

<oedipus> steven, weren't you going to ask google if they could host us in NYC?

Roland: we have to narrow down a little. options...

<ShaneM> I could also host in Minneapolis

<Steven> I vote for Shanesville

Roland: New York, suggested, but cannot verify.

<oedipus> if you're going to go to minneapolis, june is the right time

<Steven> what were the dates again?

June 16-18.

<Steven> There is an IBM in NY

<Steven> NY State

s/JU/Ju/

<Steven> I like Shane's thinking :-)

(we talked about Mon-Wed, or Tue-Thu).

Shane: no problem for hosting.

<Steven> Cool

<oedipus> steven, the IBM watson research center in hawthorne, new york?

<Steven> yes

<ShaneM> Minneapolis - probably downtown somewhere. not out where I am. Its dead out here.

Roland: could you just warn where your location is, Shane?

<Steven> We have contacts there

<oedipus> http://www.watson.ibm.com/general_info_haw.shtml

Shane: June 17-19, proposing.

<ShaneM> There are non stops to minneapolis from london, amsterdam, and tokyo

<Steven> well, perfect then

Really?

to Tokyo?

Are you sure?

every day in a week?

Roland: IBM location for alternative?

<oedipus> http://www.watson.ibm.com/general_info_haw.shtml

<Steven> Yes, Northwest

<ShaneM> I will pick a venue and set up hotel block etc in the next weeks.

<oedipus> yam, northwest is http://www.nwa.com/

Roland: everyone happy with Minneapolis for June 17-19(Tue-Thu)?

<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to set up meeting location for June 17 - 19. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action08]

<oedipus> GJR thinks he might actually manage to drag his carcass to minneapolis in june

<Steven> woh!

Roland: any other business?

<oedipus> hide the women, children and farm animals

AOB(Any other business)

<Steven> Wiki content?

<oedipus> good point, steven - what are the guidelines/rules?

<Steven> Well, up to us

<ShaneM> there's a wiki? is it linked to the MarkUp page?

<Steven> There are some basic pages we need to create

Roland: Right!

<Steven> like About:

<Steven> and the front page

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/Main_Page

Roland: entire content of Wiki is f2f Venice.

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/XHTML2:About

Roland: what other content? roadmap is in W3C.
... Steven, do you have the image of what should we have?

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/Current_events

<Steven> for news about state of docs

<Steven> maybe

(Roland has some network problems)

<Steven> join the club

Roland: we have to think about Wiki communications.

<scribe> ACTION: Roland to include this Wiki issue in the upcoming teleconf agenda. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action09]

Roland: blog?
... it is part of communications.

<oedipus> blogs spark as much heat as light...

Roland: any additional business?

<ShaneM> I could use some time back at my day job.

Roland: any additional thoughts beyond communications (Wiki, blog)?

<oedipus> i'll follow up with the PF people on getting verbiage on Role for you by the weekend, shane

<ShaneM> dont tease me

<oedipus> half of expertise is tease...

<ShaneM> only two industries call their customers users.....

<ShaneM> and have you ever noticed how the word institution is only used for things like asylums AND marriage? hmmm...

Alessio: descriging starting to encourge XHTML2 implementaions.

<ShaneM> dont we need to know what XHTML 2 is first?

Roland: no one in this room have anything additional.

<oedipus> no thanks for revisiting event yesterday

<Steven> no

<Steven> dinner?

<oedipus> keep your foot elevated, steven!

<ShaneM> Hell of a meeting folks!

Roland: finished. (after end, we will talk about dinner.)

<GerrieS> I'll be late for dinner!

<scribe> (Done for this week.)

- DRAFT -

XHTML2 WG FtF, Venice, Italy, Day 3

20 Feb 2008

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