See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: Ashok
<scribe> Scribenick: Ashok
Approval of minutes
<noah> 14 July: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/08/11-agenda
Minutes appoved without objection
<noah> 21 July 2011: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/07/21-minutes
Minutes appoved without objection
<noah> 4 August 2011: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/08/04-minutes
Minutes appoved without objection
Discussion of f2f in Edinburgh
<noah> HT: We can add other people to the hotel reservation. Contact me if you want me to reserve for you.
<noah> HT: If you can't reach Henry, contact Noah
JAR: Manu will send mail re. microdata
<noah> Sorted by owner: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
<noah> ACTION-566?
<trackbot> ACTION-566 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact Alissa Cooper, organize a future joint discussion on privacy with IAB. -- due 2011-07-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/566
Noah: We should continue to liaise with IAB -- keep Thomas in loop
<noah> NM: And Yves, of course
Noah: and PLH
<noah> NM: Our liaisons are Thomas and Philippe
<noah> YL: Yes
<noah> NM: What to do about privacy at the Sept. F2F?
<noah> AM: Noah, you had asked us to look at Do Not Track working group charter.
<noah> AM: I didn't manage to sync up with Dan
<noah> NM: Product page shows Privacy Friendly Web (early draft of report — product page needed) Daniel Appelquist, Ashok Malhotra
<noah> NM: No specific product page, but this: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html
<noah> ACTION-583?
<trackbot> ACTION-583 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Dan) organize TAG review of proposed W3C charter on tracking protection (privacy) Due 2011-07-26 -- due 2011-07-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/583
<noah> AM: Not sure what TAG can contribute now, given formation of working group.
<noah> NM: Working group is mostly scoped to Do Not Track?
<noah> AM: Yes
<jar> http://www.w3.org/2011/07/privacy-ig-charter
<noah> AM: Larry had suggested a threat model, and from it derive weaknesses. Maybe we're too late to do that.
<noah> AM: Jonathan, that's the IG charter.
<jar> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter-draft.html
Noah: The privacy-fiendly web does not have a product page
... at the f2f we can have a short discussion of whether we should do future work in this area
<noah> NM: Propose at minimum a short F2F discussion of deciding whether we have a "product" in the privacy area, and if so with what scope goals, etc. If someone prepares a more detailed report, we could review that.
HT: Registers modest amount of scepticism about this area
<noah> HT: Worried about lack of TAG background and skill set.
<noah> AM: Was about to agree with you. Not worth the time unless someone steps up and says "think about thus and so...". Haven't heard that.
JAR: Agrees with HT. I'm missing a framework.
Noah: We can explain to people the expectations they should have when using the Web
... we could make a contribution along those lines for privacy.
<jar> You're talking about security, not privacy, Noah
Noah: Educate people about privacy on the Web
JAR: Framework will not come from us
<jar> This group is not going to originate any high level ideas on privacy
Noah: Should we spend half an hour on this?
jar: Only if someone has something to bring to the table
<noah> NM: Scope of F2F, whether to keep working in this area.
Ashok: Half an hour at most
Noah: Discusses with HT re. Interaction for Web Apps
jar: Dan was going to work on it
<noah> ACTION-341?
<trackbot> ACTION-341 -- Yves Lafon to follow up with Thomas about security review activities for HTML5 -- due 2011-05-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/341
Yves: I will check with Thomas
<noah> also ACTION-516?
<trackbot> ACTION-516 -- Yves Lafon to talk with Thomas Roessler about organizing W3C architecture work on security -- due 2011-07-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/516
Yves: Charter being discussed
<noah> NM: Do we want F2F discussion on security
<noah> YL: Yes.
<noah> NM: What scope
<noah> ACTION-515?
<trackbot> ACTION-515 -- Larry Masinter to (as trackbot proxy for John) who will publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html, slightly cleaned up, with help from Noah and Larry -- due 2011-07-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/515
<noah> AM: Discusion of security wiki
<jar> Don't we already have a security wiki?
<jar> Maybe it's just a cors/ump wiki.
<noah> NM: Scope is, once again, what should the TAG do about security
HT: Need someone to bring something to the table
<noah> NM: So probably a security session, but with concern about spinning wheels
<noah> ACTION-554?
<trackbot> ACTION-554 -- Noah Mendelsohn to formulate product page for TAG work on security including John Kemp security draft Due: 2011-05-24 -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/554
<noah> Email from Tobias Gondrum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Aug/0026.html
<noah> AM: He is chair of one of the working groups
<noah> ACTION-572?
<trackbot> ACTION-572 -- Yves Lafon to look at appcache in HTML5 -- due 2011-07-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/572
Yves: keep open so we can discuss
<noah> ACTION-572 PENDING REVIEW
Noah: Suggest we wait for Dan ... pending review ... not worth f2f time
<noah> ACTION-519?
<trackbot> ACTION-519 -- Peter Linss to frame architectural opportunities relating to scalability of resource access -- due 2011-08-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/519
Peter: I have not had time to work on this
<noah> ACTION-519 Due: 2011-10-18
Noah: Should we pick a date like mid-October ... how about Oct 18?
<noah> ACTION-519 Due 2011-10-18
<trackbot> ACTION-519 Frame architectural opportunities relating to scalability of resource access due date now 2011-10-18
<noah> ACTION-583?
<trackbot> ACTION-583 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Dan) organize TAG review of proposed W3C charter on tracking protection (privacy) Due 2011-07-26 -- due 2011-07-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/583
<noah> ACTION-523?
<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-04-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
<noah> AM: Should we close ACTION-583, given that charter is out now?
<noah> NM: Why not comment now if there are problems?
<noah> AM: OK, I sent email to Dan, I can let the rest of you take a look
<noah> NM: Please let me know if you think this should be part of F2F discussion.
<noah> ACTION-583 Due 2011-08-30
<trackbot> ACTION-583 (with help from Dan) organize TAG review of proposed W3C charter on tracking protection (privacy) Due 2011-07-26 due date now 2011-08-30
<noah> ACTION-523?
<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-04-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
<noah> AM: I think we should wait on this, discuss briefly at the F2F. Discuss where we're going.
<noah> NM: If we're going to have F2F discussion, I'd like a draft product page as input
<noah> AM: I'm actually having trouble figuring out what matters here.
<noah> NM: OK, then maybe we do need technical discussion
<noah> ACTION-523?
<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-04-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
<noah> ACTION-523 Due 2011-08-30
<trackbot> ACTION-523 (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage due date now 2011-08-30
<noah> ACTION-574?
<trackbot> ACTION-574 -- Ashok Malhotra to review http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hammer-hostmeta/?include_text=1 in preparation for TAG review Due 2011-07-12 -- due 2011-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/574
<noah> AM: Jonathan and I took a look, turned out we didn't have a lot to say. I think spec is mature. We should close the action. Jonathan?
<noah> JAR: Not swapped in.
<noah> JAR: Ah, host meta.
<noah> JAR: Long ago, Sandro raised question of XML vs. RDF. I don't feel that strongly.
<noah> JAR: Does relate to work on definition discovery.
<noah> NM: Close the action, as Ashok suggests?
<noah> JAR: Yes, without implying feedback pro or con
<noah> close ACTION-574
<trackbot> ACTION-574 Review http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hammer-hostmeta/?include_text=1 in preparation for TAG review Due 2011-07-12 closed
<noah> ACTION-472?
<trackbot> ACTION-472 -- Larry Masinter to update the mime-draft based on comments & review -- due 2011-07-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/472
<noah> NM: Do we know if he wants to ramp down TAG's part of the work?
<noah> JAR: My impression is he wants discussion, if only to figure next steps.
<noah> NM: Note product page http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/mimeweb.html is high priority. So we at least need to explicitly declare success/failure, etc.
<noah> NM: We WILL discuss at F2F
<noah> ACTION-531?
<trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries -- due 2011-07-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531
<noah> NM: Same answer?
<noah> JAR: Yes.
<noah> ACTION-509?
<trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-06-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
jar: My recommendation is to remove the words "at present"
<jar> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Jun/0113.html
<noah> From their draft:
<noah> "In some of the examples below we have used IRIs with fragment identifiers that are local to the document containing the RDFa fragment identifiers shown (e.g., 'about="#me"'). This idiom, which is also used in RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR] and other RDF serializations, gives a simple way to 'mint' new IRIs for entities described by RDFa and therefore contributes considerably to the expressive power of RDFa. Unfortunately, this practice is not at present cover
jar: I suggested 4 options
<noah> HT: Fussing with the wording before settling the architectural issue isn't necessarily the best course. Not that I will necessarily understand the architectural issue, and I have taken some responsibility for moving on the larger cluster of fragid-related issues.
Noah: shall we bump the due date and cross-reference with other frag-id issue
HT: Cross-reference with product page
<noah> NM: The ACTION is on the fragid product page. Bump the date and move on?
HT: We should discuss at f2f
<noah> ACTION-509 Due 2011-09-15
<trackbot> ACTION-509 Communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue due date now 2011-09-15
<noah> ACTION-478?
<trackbot> ACTION-478 -- Jonathan Rees to prepare a second draft of a finding on persistence of references, to be based on decision tree from Oct. 2010 F2F -- due 2011-08-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/478
<jar> for the record jar favors (b) remove "at present" - it's a hedge, and has the virtue of removing the implicit promise of future work
<noah> JAR: Still intend to work on ACTION-478
<noah> Jonathan, will you just let me know later whether you favor a F2F slot?
Noah: We don't have a product page for this
<noah> NM: Worth doing product page now?
<noah> NM: Could clarify what we're about.
<noah> JAR: Could do at the F2F
Noah: should we think about that or just continue with technical work
<noah> ACTION-576?
<trackbot> ACTION-576 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis Due 2011-7-12 -- due 2011-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576
<noah> ACTION-541?
<trackbot> ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541
<noah> Noah to find Jeni and/or Dan to figure out whether ACTION-541 needs time at the F2F
<noah> HT: We need to do something that gets into the public media
Noah: Something that gets published
<noah> Note, that we have a June 2012 target for a W3C Proposed Recommendation. Does that work?
HT: Educate people about linking
Noah: For the media we need something pithy
<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
<noah> ACTION-560?
<trackbot> ACTION-560 -- Henry Thompson to review HTML polyglot last call Due 2011-06-06 -- due 2011-06-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560
<noah> ACTION-528?
<trackbot> ACTION-528 -- Henry Thompson to create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names -- due 2011-08-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/528
<noah> HT: We've talked about 528
<noah> HT: Aside from things already (fragids and persistence of domains) nothing for me at the F2F
HT: Nothing that else will come up at f2f ... we have discussed frag-ids and persistence of identifiers
Ashok: I will work on Client-Side state draft
HT: Cannot do telcon next week
Noah: I will send mail re. future telcons