Social Web Working Group Teleconference - 02 Sep 2014
Arnaud, deiu, +1.303.204.aaaa, jasnell, aaronpk, MarkCrawford, Sandro, rhiaro, ShaneHudson, wilkie, MattMarum, bblfish, tommorris, elf-pavlik, Tsyesika, tibor_katelbach, tantek, Dan_Romascanu, oshepherd, Doug_Schepers, Hhalpin
<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014
<tommorris> ready to go, humans?
<ShaneHudson> That was me
Zakim: +1.412.370.aabb is me
<deiu> There's always 41#
<ShaneHudson> I think I'm 10 but Zakim didn't accept it
<bblfish> what do you have to type?
<MattMarum> +??P7 is me
<deiu> bblfish: 41#
<hhalpin> hey everyone, I am in border control at an airport due to flight delay so dialing in late
<hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014
<bblfish> zakim IPcaller is me
<tommorris> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me
<bblfish> it really works :-)
<hhalpin> quick note - if anyone is unclear of their invited expert status, just email me.
<hhalpin> there was a systeam error when group was first set up so myself and chairs werent notified for a while.
<deiu> sandro: your mic is terrible
<ShaneHudson> Someone has a lot of feedback
<tantek> ah, nothing like 60Hz in the morning
<hhalpin> thus folks can easily slip through
<tantek> who just joined?
<tantek> nicely done oshepherd
<jasnell> I'll volunteer for either next week or the week after
<Arnaud> srcibe: wilkie
<Arnaud> scribe: wilkie
<tantek> reminder, when you speak, please say your name first, at least the first few times - it helps the scribe(s) a lot!
<ShaneHudson> I will volunteer soon too, once I've got to grips with how it all works :)
<deiu> scribenick: wilkie
<tommorris> tantek +1
<tommorris> works on wikipedia. ;-)
<aaronpk> +1 for reducing bureaucracy
tantek: have minutes copy/pasted on wiki to retain history; people will fix/maintain them
<ShaneHudson> I agree that everything on the wiki will make it easier
Arnaud: common scribe is a better tool for doing this. tell us of any better options.
<hhalpin> I recommend Skype dial out over SIP in general
proposed: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
<Arnaud> RESOLVED: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
resolved: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
<hhalpin> you can make munutes text by adding ,text to end of URI
<tantek> regrets for next week's meeting. I will be on a flight.
<aaronpk> like this? http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-social-minutes.html,text
<ShaneHudson> Regrets in advance, I will not be able to make it to TPAC
<hhalpin> yes aaronpk
Arnaud: you need to register for TPAC, face-to-face meeting
<bblfish> tantek, which icon?
<bblfish> ah yes, I was looking to see what it would look like. There is no link to that from the irc channel info...
Arnaud: we are scheduled (TPAC) to meet on 27-28 (October). the chairs will try to set up a schedule/agenda.
<bblfish> ah yes...
<hhalpin> notes that registering early saves on flight and hotel
<MattMarum> MarkC was speaking
Arnaud: it would be helpful to have a joint meeting with Social-IG
<tibor_katelbach> I'm an observer
<tibor_katelbach> I submitted request though
<tibor_katelbach> wiating for validation
<MarkC> given the large pool of folks involved in social in the bay area, we might need to have some control over the number of observers
MarkC: social-IG will coordinate and come up with topics of interest to bring to social-wg for discussion/collaboration
<tantek> MarkC, let's wait til it's a problem
<ShaneHudson> Will the meetings have remote access for those of us that cannot make it?
<jasnell> As far as TPAC agenda is concerned, it would be good to give an overview of the AS2 draft at that time. I can walk people through the spec.
<jasnell> Also, it would be good to discuss the Actions proposal and how it relates to alternatives such as Hydra and schema.org/Actions
<elf-pavlik> +1 jasnell
tantek: consider topics that are difficult to discuss online (email, phone) to discuss in the face-to-face. such as UI and visual discussion.
<MattMarum> OpenSocial is looking to organize a separate event around same time most likely at UCSF. Still in discussion.
<elf-pavlik> +1 visual discussions!
tantek: let's avoid things such as 'here is a powerpoint' which could be done just as well in email ... had some success with working groups with 'unconference' or 'barcamp' type formats
<MattMarum> +1 to running a bar camp / uncon style session.
MarkC: agrees with tantek. james wants to do a walk-through of the specs. focus will be on the use-cases and how best to present those.
<tibor_katelbach> maybe subjet proposals can be submitted in advance , to motivate interest
<tantek> +1 to providing text summaries on the wiki *before* bringing up subjects in meetings
Arnaud: we will set up a page for the face-to-face meeting and people can propose topics to discuss ... barcamp is good so that topics can be flexible, bad when schedules overlap
<elf-pavlik> +1 email/wiki *before*
Arnaud: last week we set up an agenda to separate sections of the AS specs into dedicated specs
<bblfish> where was the discussion?
jasnell: 'url' is ubiquitious and should be there, was not in AS1
<oshepherd> 'url' WAS in AS1
jasnell: some disagreement about 'id' vs 'uid'. discussion on github led to some reasonable compromise
<oshepherd> (though a bit confused)
jasnell: people should read through the issue page on github and make comments either there or on the mailing list
jasnell: between as1 and as2 changes were made to how links were handled. as2 wants to have a more generalized view of links. is this appropriate or do we need media links.
<oshepherd> The fundamental thing is are we defining just an interchange format or a data model
<oshepherd> Merging media links and objects make use as a data model more complex
<tantek> any guidance we can take from AS2 implementations?
<oshepherd> I know from AS1 impls, Pump.io, Impeller, Hubub (the latter two are Pump.io related apps fwiw), Idno/Known(?) use AS1 as their internal data model
jasnell: (acking tantek in irc) not sure we can take much from them yet
<elf-pavlik> also http://sockethub.org uses AS1
<tantek> I heard that there are only 2 AS2 implementations that could be used to inform (prev issue) and that neither really helps in that regard.
jasnell: (wrt issue #12) html5 and microformats have taken a looser take on link relations, rfc5988 is stricter, which do we point to? jasnell prefers stricter rfc5988.
<tantek> jasnell - thought your strict intersection "compromise" made sense
<tibor_katelbach> +1 microformats
<tantek> good step forward
<bblfish> yes, step backward on the higher picture seems a good idea to me.
<oshepherd> I volunteer to raise data vs syntax model to mailing list?
<tantek> and yes +1 for suggesting use of the microformats rel-registry (like HTML5) does
jasnell: some of the larger issues (wrt AS spec) we should frame out and discuss (ie json-ld)
<jasnell> oshepherd: +1
<bblfish> we just saw that some of this needs to work on HTML5, it may need to work in JSON-LD, then also work on HTTP layer.
MattMarum: when we looked at AS in the past, it was a data format that didn't specify much wrt how to retrieve the streams
<jasnell> tantek: ok, I think it makes sense also so I think we're close on this one
MattMarum: to me, we need to think about how these APIs work for getting AS and social business use-cases around these activities ... That's what the social api means to opensocial
<oshepherd> I raised the question a while back as to whether embedded "widgets" and the "API" are the same spec
tibor_katelbach: why was AS chosen compared to schema.org/Hydra
<jasnell> I think we need to step back. The OpenSocial API approach works ok but is certainly not ideal by any stretch.
<tantek> sounds like good FAQs
<jasnell> that question can be answered as a FAQ, honestly
<tantek> tibor_katelbach: anyone can bring alternative proposals to the group
<tantek> right now, AS2 seems to have the most critical mass and active open editing / participation in this WG
Arnaud: the WG has agreed to proceed with the publication of the spec. we can still choose to not go further with it beyond publication. reconsideration of previous decisions is valid.
<tantek> jasnell, want to take this one as an FAQ to write-up?
<oshepherd> I think tantek could give you some good reasons as to why not Schema.org :-)
<tantek> thank you jasnell
tibor_katelbach: I was using schema, and then found AS and found it quite complete. I have no problem with it, just wondering why
<bblfish> yes, it's true the group only formally started meeting last week.
<tantek> Arnaud, jasnell volunteered to write up FAQs for these questions.
Arnaud: anybody wanting to do a comparison and present a recommendation can do so, but we have to keep a timeframe in mind
<oshepherd> shepazu: the OpenSocial API submission link is in the charter
<jasnell> Sorry, but IMHO, the OpenSocial API is a great example of a bad example to follow.
shepazu: is there a link to a social API?
<bblfish> thanks too.
<tibor_katelbach> why jasnell ?
<jasnell> unfortunately too much to go into right now tibor...
aaronpk: micropub builds on top of oauth for authentication. mirror-image of h-entry. uses form requests to make, for instance, status updates.
<tibor_katelbach> :) I'd love to here those thought maybe we can catch up later ?
aaronpk: micropub is a way to make social posts which people are currently using. half of a dozen implementations for creating posts, thousands of users
<tantek> +1 to micropub as a building block for Social API
<jasnell> as far as API is concerned, there are three key areas to address: Vocabulary, Actions and Federation. We're looking at Vocabulary and Actions already. There is overlap we need to look at with regards to various ontologies, including schema.org.
<tantek> open spec and 10+ interoperable micropub implementations is a great start
harry: while there is this opensocial spec submitted to w3c, is this the latest version?
<tantek> jasnell, regarding overlap need to look is more like h-entry than schema.org (as far as API is concerned)
who is speaking?
<oshepherd> harry, or somebody else: Whats the procedure for bringing a proposal to the WG?
<elf-pavlik> tantek, aaronpk: do you have micropub listed on wiki?
<tantek> no one is using an API with schema vocab AFAIK. where as 10+ publishers / consumers are using micropub with h-entry and h-card
<tantek> elf-pavlik: yes http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
<elf-pavlik> socialWG wiki :)
<tantek> thought so, let me check
<jasnell> for Federation, we're largely talking about discoverability and distribution... which is a fancy way of saying GET and POST :-)
<aaronpk> I can add the link to today's call
<tantek> aaronpk, could you add micropub to this list? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Related#IndieWebCamp
??: The specification is indeed based on the latest version
<aaronpk> perfect thanks
<harry> In the WG, you just ask the Working Group to adopt it as an Editors Draft
<harry> and if the WG agrees, then we'll set you up a Respec.js and a space to edit in w3.org
<oshepherd> harry: OK. I have a draft I made a few months back I'd like to clean up and propose. I guess I'd just mail in a link?
<harry> Then if the WG moves forward with the spec, we can put in on what's called "Rec Track"
<tantek> Arnaud, could you pick a chair for next week (Evanpro?) - I cannot make it - I will be on a flight.
<harry> Yes, mail over mailing list, link to wiki, and we can discuss next call
<elf-pavlik> +1 looking at LDP
<harry> Make sure it's i scope though!
<jasnell> I'll post a detailed note about the Embedded Experiences and Action Handlers evolutinon by next call
<Loqi> harry meant to say: Make sure int's in scope though!
<MattMarum> Latest currently released OpenSocial specification: http://opensocial.org/documentation/opensocial-2-5-1/
bblfish: we have a bunch of apis, and I want to know how far one can one go building off of that and how many people would be interested in that
Arnaud: that is something that would be good to discuss on the mailing list
<tantek> propose EvanPro for chair for next week
<harry> As regards whoever was bringing up schema.org, until recently schema.org was incompatible with W3C's patent policy
<harry> so we didn't put that in the charter
<tommorris> Since last week, Linked Data Platform now has a Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_Data_Platform
<bblfish> wilkie: yes, and especially how it ties into with LDP https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html <harry> As regards Hydra, just point us to implementations and I'm sure folks can look at it.
<tibor_katelbach> bblfish +1
<harry> There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can change.
Arnaud: we should gather our use-cases. people should look at the agenda and add anything that one thinks is missing.
<Loqi> harry meant to say: There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can change.
<bblfish> oops the spec is here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html
<elf-pavlik> ciao o/
<Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
<harry> trackbot, end meeting
No "Topic:" lines.
Summary of Action Items
No action items.