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Social Web Working Group Teleconference - 02 Sep 2014

Based on: IRC log and: RRS minutes



Arnaud, deiu, +1.303.204.aaaa, jasnell, aaronpk, MarkCrawford, Sandro, rhiaro, ShaneHudson, wilkie, MattMarum, bblfish, tommorris, elf-pavlik, Tsyesika, tibor_katelbach, tantek, Dan_Romascanu, oshepherd, Doug_Schepers, Hhalpin







  <trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014
  <tommorris> ready to go, humans?
  <ShaneHudson> That was me
  Zakim: +1.412.370.aabb is me
  <deiu> There's always 41#
  <ShaneHudson> I think I'm 10 but Zakim didn't accept it
  <bblfish> what do you have to type?
  <MattMarum> +??P7 is me
  <deiu> bblfish: 41#
  <hhalpin> hey everyone, I am in border control at an airport
  due to flight delay so dialing in late
  <hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting
  <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
  <trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014
  <bblfish> zakim IPcaller is me
  <tommorris> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me
  <bblfish> it really works :-)
  <hhalpin> quick note - if anyone is unclear of their invited
  expert status, just email me.
  <hhalpin> there was a systeam error when group was first set up
  so myself and chairs werent notified for a while.
  <deiu> sandro: your mic is terrible
  <ShaneHudson> Someone has a lot of feedback
  <tantek> ah, nothing like 60Hz in the morning
  <hhalpin> thus folks can easily slip through
  <tantek> who just joined?
  <tantek> nicely done oshepherd
  <jasnell> I'll volunteer for either next week or the week after
  <Arnaud> srcibe: wilkie
  <Arnaud> scribe: wilkie
  <tantek> reminder, when you speak, please say your name first,
  at least the first few times - it helps the scribe(s) a lot!
  <ShaneHudson> I will volunteer soon too, once I've got to grips
  with how it all works :)
  <deiu> scribenick: wilkie
  <tommorris> tantek +1
  <tommorris> works on wikipedia. ;-)
  <aaronpk> +1 for reducing bureaucracy
  tantek: have minutes copy/pasted on wiki to retain history;
  people will fix/maintain them
  <ShaneHudson> I agree that everything on the wiki will make it
  Arnaud: common scribe is a better tool for doing this. tell us
  of any better options.
  <hhalpin> I recommend Skype dial out over SIP in general
  proposed: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
  <Arnaud> RESOLVED: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
  resolved: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki
  <tommorris> +1
  <oshepherd> +1
  <hhalpin> you can make munutes text by adding ,text to end of
  <tantek> regrets for next week's meeting. I will be on a
  <aaronpk> like this?,text
  <ShaneHudson> Regrets in advance, I will not be able to make it
  to TPAC
  <hhalpin> yes aaronpk
  Arnaud: you need to register for TPAC, face-to-face meeting
  <bblfish> tantek, which icon?
  <bblfish> ah yes, I was looking to see what it would look like.
  There is no link to that from the irc channel info...
  <bblfish> :-)
  Arnaud: we are scheduled (TPAC) to meet on 27-28 (October). the
  chairs will try to set up a schedule/agenda.
  <bblfish> ah yes...
  <hhalpin> notes that registering early saves on flight and
  <MattMarum> MarkC was speaking
  Arnaud: it would be helpful to have a joint meeting with
  <tibor_katelbach> I'm an observer
  <tibor_katelbach> I submitted request though
  <tibor_katelbach> wiating for validation
  <MarkC> given the large pool of folks involved in social in the
  bay area, we might need to have some control over the number of
  MarkC: social-IG will coordinate and come up with topics of
  interest to bring to social-wg for discussion/collaboration
  <tantek> MarkC, let's wait til it's a problem
  <ShaneHudson> Will the meetings have remote access for those of
  us that cannot make it?
  <jasnell> As far as TPAC agenda is concerned, it would be good
  to give an overview of the AS2 draft at that time. I can walk
  people through the spec.
  <jasnell> Also, it would be good to discuss the Actions
  proposal and how it relates to alternatives such as Hydra and
  <elf-pavlik> +1 jasnell
  tantek: consider topics that are difficult to discuss online
  (email, phone) to discuss in the face-to-face. such as UI and
  visual discussion.
  <MattMarum> OpenSocial is looking to organize a separate event
  around same time most likely at UCSF. Still in discussion.
  <elf-pavlik> +1 visual discussions!
  tantek: let's avoid things such as 'here is a powerpoint' which
  could be done just as well in email
  ... had some success with working groups with 'unconference' or
  'barcamp' type formats
  <MattMarum> +1 to running a bar camp / uncon style session.
  MarkC: agrees with tantek. james wants to do a walk-through of
  the specs. focus will be on the use-cases and how best to
  present those.
  <tibor_katelbach> maybe subjet proposals can be submitted in
  advance , to motivate interest
  <tantek> +1 to providing text summaries on the wiki *before*
  bringing up subjects in meetings
  Arnaud: we will set up a page for the face-to-face meeting and
  people can propose topics to discuss
  ... barcamp is good so that topics can be flexible, bad when
  schedules overlap
  <elf-pavlik> +1 email/wiki *before*
  Arnaud: last week we set up an agenda to separate sections of
  the AS specs into dedicated specs
  <bblfish> where was the discussion?
  jasnell: 'url' is ubiquitious and should be there, was not in
  <oshepherd> 'url' WAS in AS1
  jasnell: some disagreement about 'id' vs 'uid'. discussion on
  github led to some reasonable compromise
  <oshepherd> (though a bit confused)
  jasnell: people should read through the issue page on github
  and make comments either there or on the mailing list
  jasnell: between as1 and as2 changes were made to how links
  were handled. as2 wants to have a more generalized view of
  links. is this appropriate or do we need media links.
  <oshepherd> The fundamental thing is are we defining just an
  interchange format or a data model
  <oshepherd> Merging media links and objects make use as a data
  model more complex
  <tantek> any guidance we can take from AS2 implementations?
  <oshepherd> I know from AS1 impls,, Impeller, Hubub
  (the latter two are related apps fwiw), Idno/Known(?)
  use AS1 as their internal data model
  jasnell: (acking tantek in irc) not sure we can take much from
  them yet
  <elf-pavlik> also uses AS1
  <tantek> I heard that there are only 2 AS2 implementations that
  could be used to inform (prev issue) and that neither really
  helps in that regard.
  jasnell: (wrt issue #12) html5 and microformats have taken a
  looser take on link relations, rfc5988 is stricter, which do we
  point to? jasnell prefers stricter rfc5988.
  <tantek> jasnell - thought your strict intersection
  "compromise" made sense
  <tibor_katelbach> +1 microformats
  <tantek> good step forward
  <bblfish> yes, step backward on the higher picture seems a good
  idea to me.
  <oshepherd> I volunteer to raise data vs syntax model to
  mailing list?
  <tantek> and yes +1 for suggesting use of the microformats
  rel-registry (like HTML5) does
  jasnell: some of the larger issues (wrt AS spec) we should
  frame out and discuss (ie json-ld)
  <jasnell> oshepherd: +1
  <bblfish> we just saw that some of this needs to work on HTML5,
  it may need to work in JSON-LD, then also work on HTTP layer.
  MattMarum: when we looked at AS in the past, it was a data
  format that didn't specify much wrt how to retrieve the streams
  <jasnell> tantek: ok, I think it makes sense also so I think
  we're close on this one
  MattMarum: to me, we need to think about how these APIs work
  for getting AS and social business use-cases around these
  ... That's what the social api means to opensocial
  <oshepherd> I raised the question a while back as to whether
  embedded "widgets" and the "API" are the same spec
  tibor_katelbach: why was AS chosen compared to
  <jasnell> I think we need to step back. The OpenSocial API
  approach works ok but is certainly not ideal by any stretch.
  <tantek> sounds like good FAQs
  <jasnell> that question can be answered as a FAQ, honestly
  <tantek> tibor_katelbach: anyone can bring alternative
  proposals to the group
  <tantek> right now, AS2 seems to have the most critical mass
  and active open editing / participation in this WG
  Arnaud: the WG has agreed to proceed with the publication of
  the spec. we can still choose to not go further with it beyond
  publication. reconsideration of previous decisions is valid.
  <tantek> jasnell, want to take this one as an FAQ to write-up?
  <oshepherd> I think tantek could give you some good reasons as
  to why not :-)
  <jasnell> yes
  <tantek> thank you jasnell
  tibor_katelbach: I was using schema, and then found AS and
  found it quite complete. I have no problem with it, just
  wondering why
  <bblfish> yes, it's true the group only formally started
  meeting last week.
  <tantek> Arnaud, jasnell volunteered to write up FAQs for these
  Arnaud: anybody wanting to do a comparison and present a
  recommendation can do so, but we have to keep a timeframe in
  <oshepherd> shepazu: the OpenSocial API submission link is in
  the charter
  <jasnell> Sorry, but IMHO, the OpenSocial API is a great
  example of a bad example to follow.
  shepazu: is there a link to a social API?
  <bblfish> thanks too.
  <tibor_katelbach> why jasnell ?
  <jasnell> unfortunately too much to go into right now tibor...
  aaronpk: micropub builds on top of oauth for authentication.
  mirror-image of h-entry. uses form requests to make, for
  instance, status updates.
  <tibor_katelbach> :) I'd love to here those thought maybe we
  can catch up later ?
  <tibor_katelbach> hear
  aaronpk: micropub is a way to make social posts which people
  are currently using. half of a dozen implementations for
  creating posts, thousands of users
  <tantek> +1 to micropub as a building block for Social API
  <jasnell> as far as API is concerned, there are three key areas
  to address: Vocabulary, Actions and Federation. We're looking
  at Vocabulary and Actions already. There is overlap we need to
  look at with regards to various ontologies, including
  <tantek> open spec and 10+ interoperable micropub
  implementations is a great start
  harry: while there is this opensocial spec submitted to w3c, is
  this the latest version?
  <tantek> jasnell, regarding overlap need to look is more like
  h-entry than (as far as API is concerned)
  who is speaking?
  <oshepherd> harry, or somebody else: Whats the procedure for
  bringing a proposal to the WG?
  <elf-pavlik> tantek, aaronpk: do you have micropub listed on
  <tantek> no one is using an API with schema vocab AFAIK. where
  as 10+ publishers / consumers are using micropub with h-entry
  and h-card
  <tantek> elf-pavlik: yes
  <elf-pavlik> socialWG wiki :)
  <tantek> thought so, let me check
  <jasnell> for Federation, we're largely talking about
  discoverability and distribution... which is a fancy way of
  saying GET and POST :-)
  <aaronpk> I can add the link to today's call
  <tantek> aaronpk, could you add micropub to this list?
  ??: The specification is indeed based on the latest version
  <aaronpk> perfect thanks
  <harry> In the WG, you just ask the Working Group to adopt it
  as an Editors Draft
  <harry> and if the WG agrees, then we'll set you up a Respec.js
  and a space to edit in
  <oshepherd> harry: OK. I have a draft I made a few months back
  I'd like to clean up and propose. I guess I'd just mail in a
  <harry> Then if the WG moves forward with the spec, we can put
  in on what's called "Rec Track"
  <tantek> Arnaud, could you pick a chair for next week
  (Evanpro?) - I cannot make it - I will be on a flight.
  <harry> Yes, mail over mailing list, link to wiki, and we can
  discuss next call
  <elf-pavlik> +1 looking at LDP
  <harry> Make sure it's i scope though!
  <jasnell> I'll post a detailed note about the Embedded
  Experiences and Action Handlers evolutinon by next call
  <Loqi> harry meant to say: Make sure int's in scope though!
  <MattMarum> Latest currently released OpenSocial specification:
  bblfish: we have a bunch of apis, and I want to know how far
  one can one go building off of that and how many people would
  be interested in that
  Arnaud: that is something that would be good to discuss on the
  mailing list
  <tantek> propose EvanPro for chair for next week
  <harry> As regards whoever was bringing up, until
  recently was incompatible with W3C's patent policy
  <harry> so we didn't put that in the charter
  <tommorris> Since last week, Linked Data Platform now has a
  Wikipedia article:
  <bblfish> wilkie: yes, and especially how it ties into with LDP

  <harry> As regards Hydra, just point us to implementations and
  I'm sure folks can look at it.
  <tibor_katelbach> bblfish +1
  <harry> There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this
  space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can
  Arnaud: we should gather our use-cases. people should look at
  the agenda and add anything that one thinks is missing.
  <Loqi> harry meant to say: There's been lots of Semantic Web
  "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we
  understand that can change.
  <bblfish> oops the spec is here
  <bblfish> bye
  <oshepherd> bye
  <elf-pavlik> ciao o/
  <tibor_katelbach> bye
  <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
  <harry> trackbot, end meeting


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Summary of Action Items

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