MBUI Telecon 2012 May 24

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The agenda is:

  • Invited Experts
  • Upcoming face to face in Pisa
  • Progress on abstract user interface modelling language
  • Progress on task modelling language
  • Progress on working group note
  • Any Other Business


  • Dave Raggett
  • Javier Rodriguez
  • Cristina Cachon
  • Gaelle Calvary
  • Joelle Coutaz
  • Nikolas Kaklanis
  • Sebastian Feuerstack
  • Jaroslav Pulman
  • Davide Spano
  • Carmen Santoro
  • Francois Beuvens
  • Pascal Beaujeant


  • Gerrit Meixner
  • Jean Vanderdonckt


  • Dave


  • Dave


Sadly Gerrit is off sick and unavailable to chair tomorrow's call and has asked me to step in for him. He should be back in time for next week's call, but I will be on a short vacation with my wife.

It would be helpful if you can use IRC indicate your presence in the calls. The web address for your browser is irc.w3.org. The channel is #mbui.

To indicate your presence, please type:

  Presence+ followed by your name

This will make it easier to keep accurate records in the minutes.

Invited Experts

A reminder that if you aren't employed by a W3C Member organization and are working for an academic institution, you should apply to become an invited expert, see:


This is to ensure that we stick by the rules for the W3C Patent Policy.

Upcoming face to face in Pisa

      ISTI • Area della Ricerca CNR,
      via G. Moruzzi 1, 56124 Pisa, Italy
      9am June 14 through midday on June 15

Our thanks to ISTI-CNR for hosting the meeting which will follow the Serenoa meeting. You are recommended to book your flights as soon as practical, and to find a hotel in the central city area. A bus connects the city center with the airport or you can take the train. I will work with the ISTI team to provide details for how to get to the meeting room.

If needed, we may be able to provide a means for people to call in by Skype.

If you have any particular dietary needs please let me know and I will pass the information on.

Gerrit will work on the agenda, but please send your suggestions to the list.

Progress on abstract user interface modelling language

Francois: Still in progress. We plan to submit our first version before the F2F.

FDave: any reason why not to put the text directly in to the google doc?

Francois: We prefer to elaborate a version internally and to submit a stable version.

Dave: thanks I was worried that no one was working on it, so this is good news.

Dave: In regards to an accessible version of the AUI meta model, will you be able use a table as was discussed by email?

Francois: I can't really understand you [too strong an echo]

Progress on task modelling language

Carmen: we are working on the google doc, and have added a table providing a comparision with other task modeling languages and temporal operators, which is a very useful contribution. Gerrit asked about a CTT operator. This can be modeled in different ways. For the moment we can keep it, but we could consider removing it later if needed.

Davide has addressed some of the comments. Carmen goes through the details (not minuted). For the UML diagram we've added the precondition element to the meta model. To improve the accessibility we've included links and bookmarks to make it easier to navigate through the classes. We've noticed that links don't always work well in google docs, but that shouldn't be a problem when we move it to HTML.

Dave: I am working an an XSLT script to map the google doc to HTML and will be able to show it in Pisa.

Progress on working group note

Jaroslav has worked on the glossary using the material from the Cameleon project and compared versions and think we have an audience problem. The Cameleon descriptions are aimed at a scientific audience and is too abstract with lots of references to research. It is not obviuous what the relevance is more broadly.

The model and description are used in different places but are essentially synonymous. We need to add some examples of usage. We could look at the different documents we are writing and try understand what's needed.

Dave: we should aim at developers and managers in businesses as these are the people we want to invest in deploying model based UI design techniques.

Jaroslav: this is an important task and I invite people's help.

Joelle: should we focus on different audiences?

Jaraslav: we need to find a common understanding, and this is likely to make this a large document.

I think you're suggesting we have two levels of definitions for the different audiences.

Joelle: yes

Jaroslav: show would we split up the document?

Joelle: we look at the current glossary and flag which ones we want to export. We don't have to physical documents, but we have candidates for an external glossary.

Jaroslav: the glossary on the W3C Note would be informative.

It is proving hard to understand the importance of specific terms without context, which is why we need examples of usage. Some terms are really abstract and hard to understand. We should aim for a simpler set of definitions.

All of us should start reviewing the glossary and marking whether you agree or to add your own interpretation.

Joelle: can you give me an example of a term that is too abstract?

Jaroslav: the best way is for me to do so in the google doc.

Joelle: ok

Dave: Any one else working on the Note at the moment?


Any other businesss

Joelle: Is anyone interested in staying at the same hotel?


Dave: we should add our hotels to the meeting wiki page to help with that.

Joelle will forward some hotel information she received from ISTI.

... end of meeting...