- From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 02:50:09 +0900
- To: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAJ8iq9ULBw4guvk_Dog6BSQXgjS8P-KyaRnTEe7V6ELsgSOuOQ@mail.gmail.com>
available at:
http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html
also as text below.
Thanks,
Kazuyuki
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web&TV IG
03 Sep 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2014Sep/0000.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-irc
Attendees
Present
Kaz, Wook, Paul, Bin, Daniel, Sun_Hei, Seth, Yosuke,
Cyril, Bill, DongHoon Lee (observer), Geun_Hyung_Kim
(observer)
Regrets
Mark, Giri
Chair
Yosuke
Scribe
ddavis, kaz
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Observer from TTA
2. [6]Use Cases discussion
o [7]UC2-1 Audio Fingerprinting/UC2-2 Audio
Watermarking
o [8]UC2-3 Identical Media Stream Synchronization
o [9]UC2-4 Related Media Stream Synchronization
o [10]UC2-5 Triggered Interactive Overlay
o [11]UC2-6 Clean Audio
3. [12]Next call
4. [13]Second Screen Presentation WG
* [14]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
Observer from TTA
yosuke: approve his participation in this call
tta: TTA is a telecom tech association in Korea
kaz: we can invite him to this specific call based on Yosuke's
approval
yosuke: also simple liaison with them would be good
... so that we can invite them to the IG meeting at TPAC 2014
Use Cases discussion
<yosuke>
[15]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Use_Cases
[15] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Use_Cases
yosuke: walked through the new use case descriptions
- UC2-1 Audio Fingerprinting/UC2-2 Audio Watermarking
<kaz> [16]UC 2-1
[16] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-1_Audio_Fingerprinting
<kaz> [17]UC 2-2
[17] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-2_Audio_Watermarking
yosuke: let's begin with uc2-1
... added "Gaps" section
... three gaps
... no standard for syntax for Web APIs yet
... next feature for accessing hash generators
... hash modules for client devices
... may be proprietary algorithm
... we don't have I/F for that
... the third point is in-browser capability to generate hashes
... those are three potential gaps
... Daniel is the submitter of this UC
... so would like Daniel's opinion
ddavis: possibly the last one might not be implemented in
browsers
... the first one could be important
... the second one could be related to EME
... could be used for not only fingerprinting but also other
services
yosuke: so you mean we should concentrate on the second point?
ddavis: I think they all have potential but maybe "Feature to
access proprietary hash generators." is the one that has most
potential
yosuke: agree
ddavis: It could have more impact as it looks like it could be
used for other algorithms as well, not just audio
fingerprinting.
yosuke: if we carefully design external module for EME, we can
reuse it for audio fingerprinting as well
... a generic API would be useful for both the use cases
... helpful for Web developers
paul: But I think watermarking is used when listening to
content in a separate device.
yosuke: you can use that module for multiple devices
... not depending on concrete devices
paul: watermarking depends on device architecture, doesn't it?
yosuke: could be implemented independent from devices
paul: my understanding was watermarking was high frequency
codes
... decoded by client devices
CyrilRa: You could also use a client-server structure for
watermarking
paul: evidence-based and information-based
yosuke: we can clarify the models of watermarking
... might need help of proprietary modules
... if we create some new I/F, we should not define different
I/F for fingerprinting and watermarking
... we should try to have generic architecture for both
purposes
... that's my opinion
... make sense?
paul: could do that
ddavis: good to hear broader range of opinions
yosuke: this kind of modular model could be problematic
... users might be able to access the core module, e.g., EME
... but this time, even if we have proprietary modules, it's
just generating hash data
... not directly related to the content
... so this modular system could be safer
paul: client-server mechanism?
ddavis: mainly thinking of client-side browser
paul: we should recommend using server-side approach
yosuke: basically this modular-based approach is safer
... but if there is anybody who cares, should we ask TAG or
HTML-WG?
ddavis: the media tf of the HTML-WG
paul: thinking about something like XML HTTP Request
... local microphone captures sounds for apps
ddavis: APIs expose modules
... for external servers
paul: implementation could use XYZ server
... presentation generated by themselves (local-side)
ddavis: one more HTTP Request
yosuke: that sounds like the first gap
<yosuke> Client-server web interface (e.g. RESTful API) for
fingerprinting services, both queries and returned results.
ddavis: yes
yosuke: interesting
... think we should ask actual audio fingerprinting providers
for opinions
... good I/F between existing fingerprinting systems and Web
services
ddavis: good idea
yosuke: after this call, the co-Chars and the Team Contacts
should contact actual fingerprinting providers
... also should talk with related W3C groups, e.g., HTML WG
Media TF
... what do you think?
(no objections)
<kaz> ACTION: yosuke to work with Kaz/Daniel and contact
wartermarking/fingerprinting providers [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Work with kaz/daniel and
contact wartermarking/fingerprinting providers [on Yosuke
Funahashi - due 2014-09-10].
<kaz> ACTION: yosuke to talk with related W3C groups about
possible architecture for watermarking/fingerprinting [recorded
in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Talk with related w3c groups
about possible architecture for watermarking/fingerprinting [on
Yosuke Funahashi - due 2014-09-10].
yosuke: maybe not only the HTMLWG but also SysApps WG
ddavis: maybe WebApps and Audio as well
kaz: maybe VBWG as well
yosuke: yes
- UC2-3 Identical Media Stream Synchronization
<kaz> [20]UC 2-3
[20] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-3_Identical_Media_Stream_Synchronization
<ddavis> scribenick: ddavis
kaz: Identical stream synchronization gaps have been identified
as:
... "No ability to use existing synchronization data within a
stream. "
... "No way to accurately synchronize the presentation of media
elements on multiple devices (with the same media source)."
... We thought this use case is for related multiple streams as
well (the next use case).
... There is a lack of synchronization mechanism for multiple
streams (identical or not)
<kaz> scribenick: kaz
yosuke: media capability of HTML5 doesn't have accurate
synchronization mechanism
... we should dig into that issue
... from a fundamental viewpoint
... not only for TV industry but also various Web apps
... during the upcoming IG f2f meeting at TPAC, we'll talk
about a possible CG for media stream synchronization
... already have second screen CG, but no group for media
synchronization in general
... at the same time, need to know synchronization mechanism
outside W3C
... e.g., HbbTV, Hybridcast (IPTVF-Japan), etc., have their own
approach
... so would suggest we talk about generating a possible CG or
a TF within this IG for that topic
... what do you think?
kaz: myself like creating a TF within this IG
... but would ask all for opinions
yosuke: several possible solutions
... a TF within this IG
... a new CG
... or a TF within the HTML-WG
... which would be the best for us?
<bill> I agree - leveraging and aligning other standards is
especially relevant. ALso note AllPlay.
yosuke: would talk about that during TPAC
... CG has a strong point and a weak point
... we should talk about those points carefully
kaz: so you want to add this topic to the TPAC f2f agenda?
<Paul_Higgs> sorry, I have to leave now
yosuke: we can even ask related groups for opinions before TPAC
... might be going to hold a joint session with other groups,
e.g., the HTML-WG
... because this is related to media element
... any objections?
(no objections)
<Geun_Hyung_Kim> I
- UC2-3 Identical Media Stream Synchronization
->
[21]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-4_Related_
Media_Stream_Synchronization UC 2-4
[21] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-4_Related_Media_Stream_Synchronization
yosuke: this has some unique gaps from the previous one
<ddavis> scribenick: ddavis
kaz: This use case is related to the previous one.
... Gaps identified so far:
... "No ability to use existing synchronization data within a
stream."
... "No way to accurately synchronize multiple media elements
in a single document (with different but related media
sources)."
... "No way to deal with timestamp differences in related media
streams. Note that the timestamp formats may differ in the
streams, e.g. if one is 24 fps and one is 60 fps."
... This third gap is quite unique and different to the
previous use case.
<kaz> scribenick: kaz
yosuke: yes, the third one is most important
... how to deal with synchronization?
... would note that and move on
ddavis: time stamp format question
yosuke: current work doesn't include this kind of capability
... we can ask their interest
kaz: who do you mean by they?
yosuke: media in-band CG and TTML WG
... synchronization between text track and media track
yosuke: any other questions?
(nothing)
yosuke: let's move forward
- UC2-5 Triggered Interactive Overlay
->
[22]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-5_Triggere
d_Interactive_Overlay UC 2-5
[22] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-5_Triggered_Interactive_Overlay
ddavis: overlay on the top of TV and overlay itself
... lot of things done
... HTML dialog could be used
... and this use case should focus on TV use cases
... when something changes, e.g., commercial or channels
... the UC talks about binding and content
... no way for binding outside TV area
... label element
... no binding between elements
Extended media events to notify of things like section and
scene changes (e.g. commercial break) and change of media
source (e.g. change of channel).
No standard to bind video content with in-browser objects.
]]
bin: the gap is pretty much inline with the requirement of the
TV Control CG
... fine-tune events
... for interactive overlay
... based on pre-defined schedule
<ddavis>
[23]https://www.w3.org/community/tvapi/wiki/Main_Page/Technical
_Requirement#Triggered_Interactive_Overlay_Requirements
[23] https://www.w3.org/community/tvapi/wiki/Main_Page/Technical_Requirement#Triggered_Interactive_Overlay_Requirements
bin: conditions of triggering events
... dispatched based on different conditions
... the gap analysis is inline with what we have been
discussing
... in-band method and out-band method
yosuke: sounds like it's relevant to bring this UC to the TV
Control API CG
... any other comments?
(nothing)
- UC2-6 Clean Audio
->
[24]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-6_Clean_Au
dio UC 2-6
[24] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#UC2-6_Clean_Audio
yosuke: clarified two gaps
No way to accurately synchronize multiple media elements in a
single document (with different but related media sources).
No way to equalize content-protected (e.g. with EME) audio
tracks.
]]
yosuke: even service providers, e.g., Netflix and YouTube,
provide clean audio in addition to ordinary track
... synchronization mechanism is needed
... we should work on that
... we can deal with this kind of important feature
(synchronization) within one new group/tf
... the second one
... using Web APIs, we can equalize ordinary audio track
... using Web Audio APIs
... but impossible for users to change the tone
... we should ask the Accessibility TF guys to deal with this
... also with the HTML Media TF
... ask them about their opinions on the gaps
... what do you think?
ddavis: sounds like good idea
... at least good starting point
... asking the a11y tf and the media tf
yosuke: we can talk about this topic and other accessibility
issues during the f2f meeting at TPAC
... maybe we can have a brief talk during our IG meeting with
them (a11y tf)
... also talk about how to deal with this use cases
kaz: during the a11y tf's meeting?
yosuke: accessibility tf should be going to hold their meeting
at TPAC
... and so I think we should invite them to our IG meeting
kaz: so we'll invite the A11Y TF guys to the Web&TV IG meeting
on Monday
... and some of the Web&TV IG participants will visit the A11Y
TF on Thu/Fri
... ok
... I'll talk with Janina about the possible slots
yosuke: tx
... on Monday we'll have a joint session with the A11Y guys
during the IG meeting
... the IG meeting will be held on Monday
... their meeting will be held on Thu/Fri
... we should announce the agenda to the IG meeting
participants
... the sooner, the better
kaz: +1
<scribe> ACTION: kaz to talk with Janina about the joint
session slot during TPAC 2014 [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Talk with janina about the
joint session slot during tpac 2014 [on Kazuyuki Ashimura - due
2014-09-10].
yosuke: any other questions?
(nothing)
yosuke: will summarize today's discussion and update the wiki
based on the discussion
... also will draft agenda for TPAC f2f
... will put it on the wiki
... and share the information with the co-Chairs and the IG
participants
... we've started to think about the agenda, so need to
finalize the possible joint meeting with the A11Y TF
Next call
yosuke: in 2 weeks, i.e., Sep. 17th
... will talk about TPAC agenda during the call
... might be going to have an unconference style
kaz: the TV Control CG will use the morning sessions
bin: will finalize it soon
<Zakim> ddavis, you wanted to remind about second screen
questionnaire
<ddavis> [26]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/secondscreen/
(Member-only)
[26] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/secondscreen/
Second Screen Presentation WG
ddavis: please ask your AC Rep. to respond the questionnaire by
Sep. 22
yosuke: any other business?
skim13: given we'll talk about the TPAC agenda, can we invite
TTA guys to the next call on 17th as well?
yosuke: would like to talk with the other co-Chairs as well
first
... would some more information from you and TTA
... we should handle this carefully
[ adrjouned ]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: kaz to talk with Janina about the joint session
slot during TPAC 2014 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: yosuke to talk with related W3C groups about
possible architecture for watermarking/fingerprinting [recorded
in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: yosuke to work with Kaz/Daniel and contact
wartermarking/fingerprinting providers [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/03-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [30]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2014-09-03 15:57:00 $
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[31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
--
Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI, Voice and Geo
Tel: +81 3 3516 2504
Received on Wednesday, 3 September 2014 17:51:29 UTC