Internet caption/subtitles ecosystem (was: [tt] Minutes of Timed Text TF teleconference, 11 July 2013)

Hi Silvia,

> My paths are agnostic to where the subtitle files come from.

I would think that the more we understand where/how the
captions/subtitles were originally authored, the better we can
understand how to best prepare them for Internet delivery. So the more
information, the better, I would hazard.

> uploads a subtitle file for a video-identifier to CMS

What about the case where caption/subtitle essence is ingested
simultaneously with the audio and video essence, perhaps as a
multiplex?

Thanks,

-- Pierre

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
<silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
> My paths are agnostic to where the subtitle files come from. You can replace
> "user" with any of content owner, subtitling company, professional
> captioner, crowd sourced caption supplier or whatever other caption source
> you can think of.
>
> They all have an ingest step and that step has to make sure that the
> supplied file meets quality requirements. So you probably want to add a QA
> step with the upload.
>
> Thanks,
> Silvia.
>
> On 25 Jul 2013 19:20, "Pierre-Anthony Lemieux" <pal@sandflow.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Silvia,
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>>
>> It looks like the use cases cover the case of user-supplied
>> subtitles/captions. True? If so, what about subtitles/captions
>> supplied by the content owner and/or ingested as part of the initial
>> content upload?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -- Pierre
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Pierre,
>> >
>> > I don't have time for the pretty drawings, but from what I can tell
>> > e.g. from seeing YouTube and other online video publishers use
>> > subtitles, it's not a difficult picture anyway.
>> >
>> > user
>> >  |
>> >     uploads video
>> >  |
>> >  v
>> > video-identifier added to CMS
>> >  |
>> >    convert video file to all formats used by CMS
>> >  |
>> >  v
>> > all [video-file, video-identifier] added to CMS
>> >
>> >
>> > user (potentially the same or other)
>> >  |
>> >     uploads a subtitle file for a video-identifier to CMS
>> >  |
>> > v
>> > [subtitle-identifier, video-identifier] added to CMS
>> >  |
>> >     convert subtitle file to all formats used by CMS
>> >  |
>> >  v
>> > all [subtitle-file, subtitle-identifier, video-identifier] added to CMS
>> >
>> >
>> > user (video viewer)
>> >  |
>> >     views page with video & subtitle formats as supported by their
>> > player/browser
>> >  |
>> >     chooses particular subtitle track
>> >  |
>> > v
>> > watches video with subtitles
>> >
>> >
>> > HTH.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Silvia.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux
>> > <pal@sandflow.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi Silvia,
>> >>
>> >> As suggested during the call, the objective is to document the
>> >> caption/subtitling ecosystem, using these diagrams as well as others
>> >> as starting point.
>> >>
>> >> Looking forward to your input and participation.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >>
>> >> -- Pierre
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>> >> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Thanks. No surprises there (except that WebVTT is completely missing
>> >>> from the pictures).
>> >>> I guess somebody needs to create a picture for how it works with
>> >>> native Web content through Web CMSes.
>> >>>
>> >>> Silvia.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 6:13 AM, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux
>> >>> <pal@sandflow.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Hi Silvia,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Below are two that come to mind:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://tech.ebu.ch/ebu-tt
>> >>>> https://www.smpte.org/publications/wallcharts
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -- Pierre
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>> >>>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> Sorry I wasn't able to join this morning. Family commitments.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Someone mentioned a link to the process in dock captions end up on
>> >>>>> the web.
>> >>>>> Could you share the link?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>> Silvia.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 12 Jul 2013 07:57, "Daniel Davis" <ddavis@w3.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Available at:
>> >>>>>>  http://www.w3.org/2013/07/11-webtv-minutes.html
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Also as text below.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thank you to Kaz for the note-taking hand-holding and tidying up.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Daniel
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    [1]W3C
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>                                - DRAFT -
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>                    Web and TV IG - Timed Text TF Call
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 11 Jul 2013
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    [2]Agenda
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/Timed_Text_Meeting_5
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    See also: [3]IRC log
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/07/11-webtv-irc
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Attendees
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Present
>> >>>>>>           Kaz, Daniel, Graham, Pierre, Glenn, Mark, Mike
>> >>>>>>           (Observer)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Regrets
>> >>>>>>    Chair
>> >>>>>>           Pierre
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Scribe
>> >>>>>>           ddavis
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Contents
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>      * [4]Topics
>> >>>>>>          1. [5]Daniel is joining
>> >>>>>>          2. [6]Input to Timed Text WG charter revision process
>> >>>>>>          3. [7]Improve the structure of Timed_Text_Efforts
>> >>>>>>          4. [8]Ecosystem drawing
>> >>>>>>          5. [9]Next call
>> >>>>>>      * [10]Summary of Action Items
>> >>>>>>      __________________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> kaz: ok to invite Mike Dolan to this call?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> pal: ok
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> (Mike's participation is approved)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Daniel is joining
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> ddavis: 50% Team Contact :)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <Mark_Vickers> Welcome, Daniel. Glad to have you with us!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Thank you!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Input to Timed Text WG charter revision process
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <pal>
>> >>>>>>    [11]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/TTWG_Consensus_Input
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>      [11] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/TTWG_Consensus_Input
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <scribe> scribenick: ddavis
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <pal> proposed additional text at
>> >>>>>>    [12]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/Timed_Text_Meeting_5#P
>> >>>>>>    roposed_Agenda
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>      [12]
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/Timed_Text_Meeting_5#Proposed_Agenda
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: I'm going to add this proposed text to the Consensus Input
>> >>>>>>    now
>> >>>>>>    ... The change is now added (as point 5)
>> >>>>>>    ... Something that was not perhaps clear is that the Web & TV
>> >>>>>>    IG was supporting the addition of WebVTT deliverables to the
>> >>>>>>    TTWG deliverables
>> >>>>>>    ... so maybe there should be a sentence added to that effect.
>> >>>>>>    ... Showing that we support WebVTT as part of the deliverables
>> >>>>>>    for the Timed Text WG.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> Mark_Vickers: good place to do that
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Again, I'm going to make this addition to the Consensus
>> >>>>>>    Input now.
>> >>>>>>    ... Has now been added to the paragraph before the numbered
>> >>>>>>    items.
>> >>>>>>    ... If there are no objections, I'll post this back to the
>> >>>>>>    Interest Group reflector
>> >>>>>>    ... and hopefully the IG can then forward this to W3C Team.
>> >>>>>>    ... Thank you - I think this closes one of our work items.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <pal> next agenda topic:
>> >>>>>>    [13]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/Timed_Text_Efforts
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>      [13] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt/Timed_Text_Efforts
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <scribe> ACTION: pal to post the Consensus Input to the
>> >>>>>>    Interest Group reflector [recorded in
>> >>>>>>    [14]http://www.w3.org/2013/07/11-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Post the Consensus Input to the
>> >>>>>>    Interest Group reflector [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due
>> >>>>>>    2013-07-18].
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Improve the structure of Timed_Text_Efforts
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: There has been the suggestion that this wiki page could be
>> >>>>>>    better organised.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Mark_Vickers: I have some ideas and would be happy to work with
>> >>>>>>    you offline
>> >>>>>>    ... to update this page.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    mike: It seems there's a tangle in this process.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Only members can edit the wiki.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    Mark_Vickers: I'll push to get that resolved so that I can edit
>> >>>>>>    it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    mike: We have some private email with ideas that could really
>> >>>>>>    improve this page.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Thanks - I'm happy to help as well.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ecosystem drawing
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Next item is "ecosystem drawing"
>> >>>>>>    ... How do all those captions out there end up on the web, etc?
>> >>>>>>    ... I put up a link to an overview of the caption workflow that
>> >>>>>>    EBU and others use.
>> >>>>>>    ... It might be good for this group to create a similar
>> >>>>>>    illustration of how timed text is created and ultimately put on
>> >>>>>>    the web.
>> >>>>>>    ... I'm spending time on it but if someone else has a strong
>> >>>>>>    opinion on it, I'm happy.
>> >>>>>>    ... I'd like to hear other opinions - is it needed? Is it
>> >>>>>>    needed here? Is it needed urgently?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    mark_vickers: I think it's useful to have to shed light on some
>> >>>>>>    of the difficulties we're facing
>> >>>>>>    ... but I think people in the TT WG specifically are probably
>> >>>>>>    aware of this already.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Any other comments about this?
>> >>>>>>    ... No? OK. Any other new topics?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Next call
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: Hearing none and having gone through the agenda, let's
>> >>>>>>    choose a date for our next meeting.
>> >>>>>>    ... I think 2pm is the best compromise. How about August 1st?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> (that is August 2, 6am in Japan)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    pal: This timeslot was made to try to accommodate everyone
>> >>>>>>    including Sylvia in Australia, so I think we should give this
>> >>>>>>    timeslot another try.
>> >>>>>>    ... so let's try August 1st, 2pm Los Angeles time.
>> >>>>>>    ... Thank you every - look forward to speaking to you again in
>> >>>>>>    2 weeks.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    <kaz> [ adjourned ]
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Summary of Action Items
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    [NEW] ACTION: pal to post the Consensus Input to the Interest
>> >>>>>>    Group reflector [recorded in
>> >>>>>>    [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/07/11-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    [End of minutes]
>> >>>>>>      __________________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [16]scribe.perl version
>> >>>>>>     1.138 ([17]CVS log)
>> >>>>>>     $Date: 2013-07-11 21:46:40 $
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>      [16]
>> >>>>>> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>> >>>>>>      [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>

Received on Thursday, 25 July 2013 13:20:46 UTC