- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 17:14:58 +0100
- To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html
- DRAFT -
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
04 May 2017
[2]Agenda
[2]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017May/0001.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Bert, David, Jan, najib, r12a
Regrets
Steven, Jck_(?)
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, Bert
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Agenda
2. [6]Action Items
3. [7]Info Share
4. [8]Radar Review
5. [9]Default base direction for documents
6. [10]OWL-Time and urgent reviews
7. [11]Support for bidi in strings
* [12]Summary of Action Items
* [13]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<addison> ScribeNick: addison
Agenda
Action Items
[14]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
[14] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
action-552?
<trackbot> action-552 -- Addison Phillips to Write to json-ld
about potential for a serialization form for natural language
strings to address issues with dir and lang -- due 2016-09-29
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[15]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/552
[15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/552
action-554?
<trackbot> action-554 -- Addison Phillips to Work to schedule a
review of microformats -- due 2017-03-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/554
[16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/554
action-611?
<trackbot> action-611 -- Addison Phillips to Contact martin to
see if unicode-xml will be worked on soon so that wg can decide
if alternate next steps are needed -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/611
[17] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/611
close action-611
<trackbot> Closed action-611.
<scribe> ACTION: addison: update unicode-xml to indicate
current status [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01
<trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Update unicode-xml to indicate
current status [on Addison Phillips - due 2017-05-11].
action-612?
<trackbot> action-612 -- Addison Phillips to Create a bidi/lang
recommendations document in order to go to tag -- due
2017-04-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/612
[19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/612
action-614?
<trackbot> action-614 -- Addison Phillips to Ping anne about
encoding tests (reviewing, etc.) -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/614
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/614
addison: not sure what to expect from anne
richard: henri going through tests
... and some others
... couple of changes as a result
... do they want to change or should I?
... question is: see you/folks are finding time to look at
tests
... what do you see as next steps?
... how should we be involved?
action-615?
<trackbot> action-615 -- Addison Phillips to Finalize floating
time article for publication -- due 2017-05-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/615
[21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/615
<scribe> ACTION: richard: give addison access to i18n-drafts
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02
<trackbot> Created ACTION-617 - Give addison access to
i18n-drafts [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-05-11].
Info Share
welcoming Bert Bos
bert: more than 20 years ago created the WG
... have been in the group before
... but have been doing other things, such as CSS
... html, xml, mathml, traction protection
... that's teh DNT header
... at W3C a long time
... since this group is looking for help reviewing
... sounded interesting. hope to learn a bit more about the
things I'm reviewing and i18n
Radar Review
[23]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1
[23] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1
Bert: will take ORDL
[24]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
[24] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
richard: changing tests for unicode bidi in css
... in writing modes
... bidi isolation didn't work according to test results page
... couple of other values
... but now do seem to work, checked FF
... and chrome seems same
... still behind with Edge
<r12a>
[25]https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/writing
-modes-bidi#inline
[25]
https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/writing-modes-bidi#inline
richard: did work on JS course for EdX
... sent comments
... not a lot to say but a few things
... talking about strings in later section
addison: need to add the text about supplementary charasters,
drafting reply to your email
najib: have some tests for rare cases
... of isolation
[26]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
[26] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
[27]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/399
[27] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/399
Default base direction for documents
<r12a>
[28]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017M
ay/0002.html
[28]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017May/0002.html
richard: two links, first is to a ttml issue
... there should be an 'auto' value
... largely about usefulness of auto for insertion of text
... but another way it can be useful
... can be useful as "overall direction" for the document
... currently we say that the default should be ltr
... so if you run across ARabic and don't mark it, it will look
wrong
... default auto would use strong character in text to
determine
addison: inherits down
richard: TTML uses xsl model for establishing direction in ttml
... region auto
... only have to supply span in cases where rtl paragraphs or
spans don't start with a strong
... suggested this to webvtt I think?
... think they accepted
... mati thought it sounded logical
najib: agree on the intention
... it depends on the text in question
... if the text is in an html page
... page normally begins with title
... title may not have same text as normal paragraph
<najib> [29]http://www.w3c.org.ma/Press/securewebauthwg.ar.html
[29] http://www.w3c.org.ma/Press/securewebauthwg.ar.html
najib: have many texts that being with "W3C... (something)..."
... so always start with a first strong of "W"
richard: those are cases that have to be addressed
... if ttml is by default auto
... dont' have to add rtl at doc top in every doc
... in sitution like w3c---something--- have to do something
addison: concerned about layout effects of this
richard: could do a couple of things,
... in spec-dev could say make default auto
... or say ltr-or-auto
... with discussion of pros-cons
... true for new formats. for ttml not probably usable
... xsl model, overall direction for region derives from
writing-mode
... css no longer includes text direction in writing-mode
... writing-mode has no allowance for auto
... TTML use the XSL model and so already have vast number -
adding auto would increase that substantially of values for
writing-mode
... but wanted to bring up question
David: support this
... if ltr default and we change
... won't break anything I think
addison: suggest we go to larger community?
<scribe> ACTION: richard: create a short document about making
direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to
www-international@ for review [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[30] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03
<trackbot> Created ACTION-618 - Create a short document about
making direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send
to www-international@ for review [on Richard Ishida - due
2017-05-11].
OWL-Time and urgent reviews
[31]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Aowl-time
[31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=✓&q=is:issue
is:open label:owl-time
<Bert> scribenick: Bert
addison: Most key thing is OWL time describes a whole bunch of
things, non-gregorian calendars, etc.
... Fine from LOD POV, but
<addison> [32]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/405
[32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/405
addison: looks problematic from i18n.
... Time zones don't use IANA IDs.
... And maybe there's a false assumption about how TZs work, in
terms of offset.
r12a: Is that in one of their examples?
addison: Yes
... The standard for time zone in general is IANA.
Dateandtime.com has their own, not IANA.
... The example uses abbreviations.
r12a: Level of coverage?
addison: I'm not sure about the level of coverage.
r12a: The example is not a real site...
<addison> [33]https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aest
[33] https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aest
addison: Sorry, it's the domain ^^^
r12a: No objection from me to sending this comment.
<addison> [34]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404
[34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404
r12a: As separate comments?
addison: Yes
... Need links to Gregorian calendar for "general"
<addison> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/403
[35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/403
addison: Time units week, etc. can take decimal value: "6.7
weeks"
... Not entirely clear what those periods are.
<addison> [36]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/402
[36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/402
r12a: Comment sounds good to me.
addison: Week number from ISO, but different countries count
weeks differently.
r12a: Several countries have different first days for the week,
Sunday/Monday.
addison: This is also about what is the first week.
<addison> [37]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/401
[37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/401
r12a: "First week of the year is the week containing the first
Thursday". Is that an attempt to get around that?
... Might be good to add some of that detail to your comment.
addison: Description of time zone: they say it's a region and
an offet, but it is really a bit more than that.
... And the possibility of future changes.
r12a: You might want to point to them to one of our documents,
<addison> [38]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/400
[38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/400
<addison> probably www.org/TR/timezone
addison: Last issue is conversion to Gregorian.
... Most times have a defined relation to Gregorian.
... Any comments or objections to these six issues?
Support for bidi in strings
addison: Do we want to talk about bidi strings today? We have 3
minutes.
r12a: Happy to.
<addison>
[39]https://aphillips.github.io/i18n-discuss/notes/i18n-action-
612.html
[39]
https://aphillips.github.io/i18n-discuss/notes/i18n-action-612.html
addison: I pointed to our other docs about lang. and base
direction.
... Added quick pros and cons.
... Example of Payment API spec added dictionary pattern.
r12a: Biggest comment is that Tantek will probably say there is
a third option: use control characters from Unicode.
addison: That doesn't solve the language problem.
r12a: But it is worth mentioning.
addison: As a "Solution 3" that we don't recommend?
r12a: Not sure it's a solutuion 3.
<r12a> could be just an additional paragraph
<addison> Note: Leonie's request was about ARIA
<r12a> ok
<r12a> will you reply?
<r12a> addison: yep
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: addison: update unicode-xml to indicate current
status [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: create a short document about making
direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to
www-international@ for review [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: give addison access to i18n-drafts
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[40] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01
[41] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03
[42] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 4 May 2017 16:15:13 UTC