Minutes Telecon 2014-07-30
- The main remaining issue for Animations from the previous telecon revolved around computing values in keyframes. dbaron and sylvaing took turns explaining the issues and complexities when there are multiple properties with a different number of values. The group came to two conclusions for handling missing values; interpolate what the value should be from the given values or use a value from the non-animated state. No definitive conclusion was reached, but the leaning was toward interpolation. Discussion will continue on the mailing list with an e-mail summary from sylvaing.
- Resolved: Floats are passed up through Ruby to the containing block
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft for Ruby
- leaverou presented her findings from a poll seeking to rename
gray() to a less confusing name. The poll gave clear results in favor of rgb() and rgba(), however the working group had a concern that this would be confusing for new authors. Discussion continued after the call on IRC to try and find a non-confusing and author friendly solution.
- Resolved: Accept
rgb() with single values and rgba() with 2 values and keep exploring other potential values
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-07-16
- Bert brought the proposed errata to CSS2.1 that he wrote after last week’s conversation about canvas background to the group. He was given two edits to make in order to make the errata more accurately reflect the group’s thinking. fantasai will update the test suite to reflect the change.
- Resolved: Accept proposal for error handling rules in grid layout
- TabAtkins updated the group on where his thinking has evolved to after discussions on the very active thread. TabAtkins also will re-write a new proposal and send it to the list for further review.
- TabAtkins addressed the changes he’s made to his color classes proposal since he presented his ideas from the wiki last week. Leaverou had some concerns about his attempt to address the various types of color syntax and will write up her concerns and post them on the mailing list. The plan to remove the RGBcolor name from DOM Level 2 ran into some objections and will be addressed in the thread.
- Several resolutions were recorded for open issues in Animations. They were:
- Resolved: Defer new timing keywords for bounce animations to level 2
- Resolved: Defer a new
steps() timing function to level 2
- Resolved: Accept the edit proposed in this e-mail
- Resolved: Inserting an
@keyframe rule if it wasn’t there starts an animation.
- Resolved: Begin work on Level 2 of Animations
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-07-09
- Bert informed the group that he has begun the wiki for the next F2F and encouraged people to add their names if they know they’ll be attending.
- There was general support for TabAtkins’s proposal to expose some color parsing and he’ll add it to Color 4.
- It was agreed that the issue raised by gregwhitworth regarding the sixing of controls was a bug in implementations, not an issue with the Sizing spec.
- fantasai updated the group on her status with Ruby and will wait on feedback from Kawabata and more conversations with Boris.
- fantasai outlined her current proposal for simplifying grid layout error handling. There was general approval from the group and she will seek a resolution next week after Rossen has had time to review the proposal in more detail.
- At Rossen’s request, fantasai also gave an update on Flexbox and said she was close to a complete Disposition of Comments with only a few complex issues that still need to be solved.
- In conversation about justification issues in Korean vs. Japanese documents, the group felt that authors should be encouraged to language-tag their work to help avoid problems with the behavior of auto. However, since many documents aren’t language tagged, everyone also felt a solution did need to be developed. Suggestions included:
- Re-instituting the inter-character property
- Accepting that using auto limits some features and thus encouraging language-tagging
- Creating a way to auto-detect the dominant script
- The discussion will head back to the mailing list for further feedback and hopefully a good compromise on default behavior.
- Everyone agreed that the current behavior of
display: none and visibility: hidden is correct and should be written into a spec. SimonSapin will come up with proposed text for an errata to CSS2.1 that the group can ratify.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-07-02
- Working group members were reminded to rejoin under the new charter.
- The mailing list proposal to change control characters to default display in order to expose these breaks in pages was discussed. It was clarified that this proposal would only apply to Unicode characters that aren’t default ignorable or CSS whitespace. There was general support for the change with most browsers expressing support or no opinion. Microsoft requested more time, so the intention is to change to default display control characters pending Microsoft’s input.
- TabAtkins informed the group that the thinking at the last F2F that, for Flexbox, addressing the static position of an abspos child would be the same if referencing a box or a point turned out not to be correct when using safe alignment. A decision isn’t made as to which behavior is better, so for now this is purely informational.
- TabAtkins also requested help in trying to discover how much usage there is of
flex-basis: auto with a non-auto value for width in order to determine how much breakage renaming flex-basis: auto would create.
- Resolved: Accept the change to main-size pending usage data and future bikeshedding
- Resolved: Remove the Unicode range token from syntax and replace with a Unicode production similar to
An+B. Update CSS Syntax, CSS Fonts, and CSS Font Loading accordingly.
- Resolved: Add min and max font-size properties
- Resolved: New ED for Fonts 4
- Resolved: Move
contents to the display property.
Full Minutes
Resolutions from Mailing List, 2014-06-21 to 2014-06-23
Two items were resolved on the mailing list. They are as follows:
Minutes Telecon 2014-06-25
- plh reported that the charter process is going well and nearing completion.
- As at least one group member has already made reservations for Sophia/Antipolis, the current focus is to try and have the next F2F meeting there. plh will investigate if the W3C is prepared to host.
- Resolved: CSS Masking to CR
- In attempting to explain
br, the performance implications of creating a special case of display-box: content or creating a whole new display value were compared.
- Some members thought that the special case would potentially create negative performance implications.
- Others felt that the new display value would create unnecessary complexity.
- Ultimately it was decided that there still wasn’t a good solution to this problem and it was put back on the shelf until someone comes up with a better solution.
- The basic issues of handling Flexbox percentage heights in column direction were hashed out and clarified. Discussion will now move back to the mailing list to try and find a solution.
- Resolved: Solve background-blend on the root element as Rik requests.
Full Minutes
Minutes Seoul F2F Part VI: 2014-05-21 PM – CSS 3 Text, web-platform-tests and csswg-test github, annotate url(), Grid/Subgrid, position: sticky, Acknowledgements
CSS 3 Text
- Resolved:
text-align is shorthand for text-align-last and text-align-all
- Resolved: Defer
text-align-first and text-align: start-end to level 4
- There wasn’t any solution of a new name for grapheme clusters (currently called characters). The editors will come up with something until someone comes up with something better.
- Resolved: Require which lines are justified even if the justification method is not defined
- Arabic letters connecting between elements with
display: inline disucssion will continue on the mailing list.
- Issue 72 about control characters will be tested a bit more, but likely will result in no change.
- Resolved: No further splits to CSS3 Text
- Though this is a process that’s been done before with other specs (including this one), it was felt that the most interesting to implement pieces of CSS3 Text were all in the unstable list. Given that and the fact that there is no clear logical division of properties either, it shouldn’t be split.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
web-platform-tests and csswg-test github
- plh presented the interest in having tests to CSS submitted though web-platform.
- There was some concern about conflicting interests where the working group tools were developed to get specs to REC whereas web-platform was just developed to create more tests. However, there was also support for more tests to make better specs.
- No end decision was reached, but there was interest in having web-platform-tests be a subdirectory of CSS tests.
Full Minutes
annotate url() with “crossorigin” “integrty” etc.
- There was ample interest in being able to annotate
url().
- TabAtkins’ believed he had a solution involving enhancing
url() which he will investigate and bring back his findings to the group.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Grid/Subgrid
- Resolved: Move subgrid to at risk for level 1 and add a requirement for
display-box: contents to be used with grid and include examples.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
position: sticky
- dbaron brought to the group some behavior inconsistencies between implementations when using
position: sticky and the margin box and padding box are the same size.
- The group looked through dbaron’s examples (available here) and agreed it was broken.
- Rossen will address the inconsistency in his continuing work on the spec.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Acknowledgements
- Everyone thanks the TTA for being wonderful hosts!
Full Minutes
Minutes Seoul F2F Part V: 2014-05-21 AM – CSS Masking, Geometry Interfaces, Test Results Script, Selectors 4, text-overflow: fade, Logical Properties, background-position -x/-y
CSS Masking
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Geometry Interfaces
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of Geometry Interfaces
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Test Results Script
- It was agreed that once plinss gets a chance to update a few pieces of Shepherd, it can be moved to W3C servers.
Full Minutes
Selectors 4
- Reviewed status. The group will review the text changes before a request is placed for a new WD.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
text-overflow: fade
- Discussion of potentially adding
text-overflow: fade led to a wider conversation about adding more overflow functionality that would cover this and many other cases.
- There were a few potential solutions for a wider solution, but also most people felt that a
text-overflow: fade keyword would likely still be necessary. Conversation will continue between interested parties.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Logical Properties
- Resolved: Create ED of CSS Logical Properties
Full Minutes
background-position -x/-y
- With both logical and physical properties, the handling of
background-position -x/-y has become more complex. There was no resolution of how to deal with it, but the current direction is spec physical with background-position-block and you specifying the direction.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Seoul F2F Part IV: 2014-05-20 PM – CSS Line Layout, Box Alignment, Box Model/Render Tree, -webkit-line-clamp
CSS Line Layout
- It was decided that the SVG 2 spec will likely move faster through the rec process than Inline and therefore SVG should take the lead in spec-ing and pull in the vertical-align information from CSS and baseline alignment will be trimmed to closer match SVG.
- There was a substantial productive conversation on how best to handle dropcaps, beginning with a presentation by dauwhe. (Available here)
- The proposed syntax and spec for the handling of dropcaps are as follows:
initial-letters: normal | {1,2}
- applies to
::first-letter or the inline-level first child of a block container.
- First integer represents the size of the letter (as N lines with N-1 gaps)
- Second integer represents how many lines deep the letter sinks into the paragraph.
- See this post for a more detailed summary and further discussion.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Box Alignment
- fantasai brought the group up to date on the changes including:
- new
last-baseline value (in addition to baseline value)
- explanation and details of baseline alignment concepts
- additional notes on vertical-alignment property
- A bit more work will be done before the request for a new WD
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Box Model / Render Tree
- TabAtkins, with additional input from glazou and plinss, told the group about question of further exposing the box model that was originally brought up in a conference with react.JS.
- There were a few members that were very interested in beginning work on doing a better job of exposing pieces of CSS, though not necessarily exclusively in the direction requested by react.JS. These WG members will begin to put together ideas and potential solutions.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
-webkit-line-clamp
- Resolved: put
max-lines property that behaves like max-height in the line grid module
- Resolved: work on block ellipsis problem independently
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Seoul F2F Part III: 2014-05-20 AM – Footnotes in GCPM, CSS Scoping, Flexbox, CSSOM and CSSOM View
Footnotes in GCPM
- dauwhe gave a presentation on his progress regarding the handling of footnotes. His slides are available here: http://epubzero.blogspot.com/2014/05/footnotes-as-css-regions.html
- There was conversation about the progress dauwhe has made using Regions and some suggestions about potential options to move forward including the best way to create a placeholder for where the footnote came from and exact things that footnotes may need to do, such as be visible/invisible for certain users and flowing into a new page.
- The group decided that dauwhe should use his progress to create GCPM 4 and use that knowledge to backfill into GCPM 3.
- Resolved: Editor’s Draft for GCPM 4
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Scoping
- TabAtkins and fantasai presented their progress on CSS Scoping and brought several issues to the group.
- The replacement for the
@global selector was brought up with the working group having differing opinions on what should be the replacement and requested the addition of examples.
- The group also couldn’t decide on a new name for
::content. They narrowed the options down to two (::projected and ::light-content) and will poll authors to make a final decision.
- Resolved: Add
>> as an alias for the descendant combinator, and change /deep/ to >>>
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Flexbox
- The unclear language in CSS2.1 for handling static positioning was discussed with the leaning to further clarify relevant details in the Flexbox spec.
- fantasai and TabAtkins will get usage data and draft a concrete proposal on how to make
flex-basis: auto less confusing, potentially with a re-name.
- Resolved: Publish Flex CR with the CR version of flex distribution algorithm.
- Flexbox also needs more tests before it can go to PR.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSSOM and CSSOM View
- Serialization and loading style sheets were the two main pieces of CSSOM that were considered broken and a few potential solutions to each were offered.
- For CSSOM View cases where the viewport is smaller than the canvas was the first issue with different browsers handling the case differently. Zcorpan will write out a proposal.
- The
GeometryUtils API was mentioned with zcorpan planning to look at the version Firefox shipped and work from there.
- Sub-pixel position raised a lot of concerns and some implementors shared difficulties they’ve faced in trying to implement it.
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: CSSOM Values and CSSOM View
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in San Francisco]](/Style/CSS/csswg-2016.jpg)
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