ACTION-265: Ping commenter of 2871 for more information

Ping commenter of 2871 for more information

Joshue O'Connor
Due on:
July 29, 2014
Created on:
July 22, 2014
Related emails:
No related emails

Related notes:

[DONE] Josh Pinged Mark Rogers for more info:

Here is the response:

Hi Joshue

Looking back I think I was conflating two different issues.

1) Lack of support in screen readers. <A TITLE> isn't read on the following browser/AT combos using default settings:

NVDA 2014.1/IE11/Windows 7 when tabbing
NVDA 2012.3/IE11/Windows 7 when tabbing
JAWS 14/FF29/Windows 7 when tabbing
JAWS 14/IE11/Windows 7 when tabbing
JAWS 13/FF28/Windows 7 when tabbing
JAWS 13/IE11/Windows 7 when tabbing
WindowEyes 8.4/IE11/Windows 7 when tabbing

a) choice of browser and version of AT is important here: NVDA 2012 and 2014 do read out TITLE when used with Firefox, JAWS 15 also reads out TITLE with both IE11 and FF29
b) some ATs (e.g. JAWS) have settings that control whether or not TITLE is read (so you might get different results when moving away from default settings)
c) no ATs read out title in reading mode (which seems sensible - reading the title only makes sense if the user is a position to activate the link)

2) On the mobile front I was referring to sighted users. Mobile browsers don't display titles as tooltips, and there's usually no visible indication that multiple tabs are open (on Chrome for Android tables you need to swipe down to display tabs, and on iPhone you need to scroll to top of doc, then click the tabs button). There is sometimes a "new tab" animation but if you miss that it can be difficult to figure out what's happened.

Does this give enough background?


Mark Rogers -
PowerMapper Software Ltd -
Registered in Scotland No 362274 Quartermile 2 Edinburgh EH3 9GL

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshue O Connor []
Sent: 22 July 2014 17:48
To: Mark Rogers
Subject: Context for comment 'Title attribute says document opens in new window'

Hi Mark,

You sent a comment to the WCAG working group recently relating to h33.
We were discussing it in the working group today. [1]

"Example 2 on H33 shows the title attribute as the sole means of indicating link opens in new window.

Title on links is not well supported - especially on mobile user agents where it's hard to see a new tab/window has opened (so problem is more

The HTML 5.1 draft says:
"Relying on the title attribute is currently discouraged as many user agents do not expose the attribute in an accessible manner as required by this specification"

Proposed Change:
Remove this example, since it conflicts with another spec, and it's hard to see many cases where this would pass the success criteria.

Could you please give us some more information? Were you referring to non-sighted users of AT such as screen readers or to only sighted users on mobile devices?

It will help if you can give us some more information on your thinking and the context of the comment.



Joshue O Connor/Andrew Kirkpatrick
WCAG working group co-chairs

Joshue O'Connor, 29 Jul 2014, 16:15:34

Display change log.

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