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Bug 28268 - [webvtt] 3.2 scroll value and vertical writing [I18N-ISSUE-435]
Summary: [webvtt] 3.2 scroll value and vertical writing [I18N-ISSUE-435]
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: TextTracks CG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: WebVTT (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: PC All
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: This bug has no owner yet - up for the taking
QA Contact: Web Media Text Tracks CG
URL:
Whiteboard: widereview
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2015-03-22 00:20 UTC by Silvia Pfeiffer
Modified: 2017-08-09 10:41 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
silviapfeiffer1: needinfo? (addison)


Attachments

Description Silvia Pfeiffer 2015-03-22 00:20:36 UTC
Feedback by Addison Phillips from W3C I18N group:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Mar/0067.html

I18N comment: https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/435

3.2 Text track regions, scroll value
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-webvtt1-20141111/#h3_text-track-regions

---
Up
Indicates that the cues in the region will be added at the bottom of the region and push any already displayed cues in the region up until all lines of the new cue are visible in the region.
---

If the text is set vertically, should the push be ltr/rtl, rather than up?
Comment 1 Philip J├Ągenstedt 2015-03-23 04:14:39 UTC
Bug 24896 is related.
Comment 2 David Singer 2015-05-19 00:05:03 UTC
do we need directionally-neutral synonyms for some of our terms (e.g. 'up')?
Comment 3 Silvia Pfeiffer 2015-06-08 08:53:00 UTC
I'm actually curious to hear from the I18N group to hear if scrolling captions are used for vertically rendered captions.
Comment 4 Addison Phillips 2015-07-27 01:29:23 UTC
> do we need directionally-neutral synonyms

Ideally, yes, but you can also describe the behavior is that's too disruptive. We generally recommend start/end (for left/right) and before/after (for top/bottom)

> I'm actually curious to hear from the I18N group to hear if scrolling 
> captions are used for vertically rendered captions.

Oddly, I happened to see an example recently--it was a historical use in a Japanese film, so not an implementation. 

Due to the orientation of most screens displaying this type of text and the relative novelty of dynamic vertical support in computer displays, it has to be rare. That said, if you provide the other trappings of vertical presentation, you probably should be complete.
Comment 5 Silvia Pfeiffer 2015-08-09 08:07:55 UTC
(In reply to Addison Phillips from comment #4)
> > do we need directionally-neutral synonyms
> 
> Ideally, yes, but you can also describe the behavior is that's too
> disruptive. We generally recommend start/end (for left/right) and
> before/after (for top/bottom)

Caption text lines can't scroll "before" - they scroll "up" for horizontal text.

What would it be for vertical text - it doesn't scroll "start" or "end either. I think it probably would need to scroll "left" for ltr and "right" for rtl - would you agree?

 
> > I'm actually curious to hear from the I18N group to hear if scrolling 
> > captions are used for vertically rendered captions.
> 
> Oddly, I happened to see an example recently--it was a historical use in a
> Japanese film, so not an implementation. 
> 
> Due to the orientation of most screens displaying this type of text and the
> relative novelty of dynamic vertical support in computer displays, it has to
> be rare. That said, if you provide the other trappings of vertical
> presentation, you probably should be complete.

Looks like we need to do it.
Comment 6 Simon Pieters 2015-10-30 04:02:28 UTC
I need to discuss this issue with koji
Comment 7 David Singer 2016-10-11 17:20:12 UTC
Since scrolling is currently onmly defined for regions, and regions are currently only used for horizontal text, and scrolling vertical cues seem to be rare, I suggest we continue to define scrolling as defined for horizontal cues only, and defer vertical scrolling to a future version, based on demand from the field.

"Only defined for horizontal cues: indicates that the cues in the region will be added at the bottom of the region and push any already displayed cues in the region up until all lines of the new cue are visible in the region."
Comment 8 Silvia Pfeiffer 2017-08-09 10:41:04 UTC
Addison, are you ok to leave vertical scrolling caption to a next version of WebVTT?