Meeting minutes
<astearns> zoom details: https://
<astearns> please don’t use the zoom link in the calendar invite, use https://
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025] Publish Snapshot as Group Note
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
astearns: proposed resolution is to publish a new snapshot as soon as the edits are in
RESOLUTION: republish snapshot with the edits decided on today
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-contain-2] Add CSS Containment 2 to Rough Interop
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: we're still in working draft, but there's relatively good interop, with 88% coverage
SebastianZ: not in any snapshot
SebastianZ: still has lots of open issues
<astearns> florian: I agree. rough interop is the right bucket
<astearns> florian: draft needs work and republishing
RESOLUTION: css-contain-2 goes into rough interop
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][geometry-1] Add Geometry 1 to Rough Interop
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: geometry-1 has very good interop, with 98%
SebastianZ: not in any snapshot, and has a bunch of open issues, and needs republishing. Last TR is from 2018
SebastianZ: The question is whether to add to rough interop, or if we should do another publication first
<Zakim> ChrisL, you wanted to wonder about publishing
ChrisL: not clear to me whether we have active editors
ChrisL: I can put the changes list up to date, but not much more
astearns: would like a publication before we put this in the snapshot
astearns: we have a lot of tests, but whether they provide good coverage is unknown
ChrisL: sounds like we should defer
SebastianZ: I too could volunteer to update the changes list
RESOLUTION: update changes list, find active editor, republish
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][cssom-view-1] Add CSSOM View 1 to Rough Interop
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: cssom-view has reasonable interop, but has many many github issues
SebastianZ: also needs to be republished
SebastianZ: I have update the changes section
SebastianZ: and I have included the inline wpt
SebastianZ: issue 8559 is about republishing
SebastianZ: I think we should add to rough interop
ChrisL: I think we should resolve to republish
<astearns> florian: impression this was maintained as a living-standard-ish thing
<astearns> florian: seems to be in a coherent state
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[cssom-view-1] Update WD from 2016 with current spec.
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
<ChrisL> +1
RESOLUTION: publish updated WD of cssom-view-1
RESOLUTION: add cssom-view-1 to rough interop in the snapshot
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][mediaqueries-5] Add features from Media Queries 5 to Safe to Release Exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: I triaged which features have good coverage and interop on the basis of having edited the wpt inline into the spec
SebastianZ: I'd like to go through the list maybe
<astearns> florian: the ones here seem fine
<astearns> florian: one may show we have insufficient tests
<astearns> florian: scripting has 100% pass, but it does not test much at all
<astearns> florian: this might be true for the other features
florian: nevertheless, I support this set
ChrisL: I think it's fine, but I don't have strong confidence
astearns: me too
astearns: I think these are quite widely used anyway
RESOLUTION: add the subset identified by SebastianZ to the safe-to-release set
<dbaron> FWIW Chrome has a real implementation of the scripting feature: https://
astearns: I was a little concerned about the pass rate, but most do seem to have 2 implementations
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-pseudo-4] Add typographic pseudo-elements to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: fantasai mentioned in another issue that we need to resolve on a syntax question
SebastianZ: the :: syntax has been in all browsers for many years
ChrisL: css2 had the same thing, but with a single colon
SebastianZ: so we should resolve that all the typographic pseudo elements, with the :: syntax, are safe to release
<dbaron> https://
dbaron: are these not in the selectors 3 recommendation
dbaron: which pseudos?
dbaron: ::first-line, ::first-letter, ::before, ::after are in selectors-3, ::marker is not
ChrisL: nor are ::prefix and ::postfix
SebastianZ: but I think these last two were in css2
dbaron: no
astearns: of the typographic pseudos, we're only concerned about ::prefix and ::postfix
astearns: ::marker is in a different category, tree abiding pseudos
SebastianZ: the idea was to mark all that were part of css2 as safe to release with the :: colon syntax
astearns: if they're in selectors 3, we don't need to
dbaron: the only missing one are ::prefix and ::postfix
SebastianZ: I don't remember why I added those, probably tested them before
astearns: we don't seem to have test for those, and edits seem to be pending too
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-conditional-5] Add `font-tech()` and `font-format()` to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: font-tech() and font-format() from css-conditional-5 were implemented in all major browsers since 2023
SebastianZ: I think it was part of an interop project
SebastianZ: 100% interop, only 1 editorial issue on github
RESOLUTION: font-tech() and font-format() are safe to release
<dbaron> +1
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][selectors-4] Add `:is()`, `:where()`, `:has()`, and selector lists in `:not()` to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: the spec was last published in Nov 2022
SebastianZ: these features are implemented in all browsers since 2021, except :has(), which was part of interop 2023
SebastianZ: tests are at 95% interop
SebastianZ: there are some issues on github, but given high interop, should be safe to add
astearns: are there tests for selector lists in :not()
SebastianZ: I don't know about the tests, but I have used the feature, and it works
SebastianZ: yes, there are actually tests
SebastianZ: and they're all passing
RESOLUTION: add :is(), :where(), and :has() to the safe to release
astearns: anything else in that spec?
SebastianZ: [lists many features]
SebastianZ: focus-within should probably go there too
<dbaron> the column selector stuff is also in selectors 4
RESOLUTION: selector list in :not() are also safe to release
florian: focus-within should be good too
astearns: let's do a new issue for that
ACTION: SebastianZ to go through selectors-4 and check for additional safe-to-release features
ACTION: SebastianZ to go through selectors-4 and check for additional safe-to-release features
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-images-4] Add `conic-gradient()` and `<color-interpolation-method>` for gradient functions to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: interop is somewhat high, with 83%
SebastianZ: there are about 9 issues on github, plus 3 in the spec
SebastianZ: given high interop and few open issues, I think it's ok for safe to release
ChrisL: conic gradients have been available for a while, the spec was lagging
ChrisL: color interoplation methods is widely implemented, except for the thing we resolved on 2 weeks ago
ChrisL: except for that, it seems good and should be in
astearns: I think we can put it in safe to release, even with that consideration, because it does seem safe
<ChrisL> +1
RESOLUTION: add conic-gradients and color-interopolation-method to safe to release
<Zakim> fantasai, you wanted to comment on different topic
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-easing-2] Add `linear()` to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: there was an issue about whether it is in shippable state, and we resolved it is
SebastianZ: implemented across browsers since 2023
SebastianZ: interop is not that high (68%), but we already said it's fine
SebastianZ: just one open issue on github, none in the spec
astearns: the shipable state issue said OK for FPWD, but did not say OK to ship
SebastianZ: Ah, right
SebastianZ: does someone remember if we discussed shipability, or publication only?
astearns: seems we only discussed publishing first
florian: so the precondition is fulfilled, but is the feature good enough?
astearns: test pass rate seems low, I am not OK with putting it in safe to release
astearns: test results show lack of interop
SebastianZ: safe-to-release is supposed to be about spec status, not interop
astearns: editor said it's good
astearns: I'm leaning to not yet
fantasai: the test seems to be largely about specified value, not behavior
fantasai: doesn't seem like a big deal
astearns: I just don't feel confident
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-text-decor-4] Add `text-decoration-thickness`, `text-underline-offset` properties and `from-font` value for `text-underline-position` to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: interop is not that high
SebastianZ: spec last published in May 2022
SebastianZ: implemeted in all major browsers, but with moderate interop (66%)
SebastianZ: only 2 issues on github, 1 in the spec
fantasai: look like fairly minor issues (spec bug, rounding question)
fantasai: not concerning from a spec perspective
RESOLUTION: add `text-decoration-thickness`, `text-underline-offset` properties and `from-font` for `text-underline-position` to Safe to Release exceptions
<astearns> github-bot, take up w3c/
[css-2025][css-env-1] Add `env(safe-area-inset-*)` to Safe to Release exceptions
<github-bot> OK, I'll post this discussion to https://
SebastianZ: spec is not published yet, not even FPWD, but there's already an issue for that 6729
florian: interop is at 88%
SebastianZ: 10 issues in total
ChrisL: this has been blocked from FPWD from 2021 because of a request on Apple to submit a list of env features, which seems wasn't done
ChrisL: there seems to be contention on the list
<fantasai> w3c/
fantasai: we should circle back on that
ChrisL: we should decide if we add or not, but either way, we should do a FPWD
astearns: and then we can add to the snapshot
astearns: it's safer to wait