Meeting minutes
Project planning update
JJ starting meeting with project planning update
JJ There are over 190 open issues in github
<JJ> JJ: next Monday will go through the issues with Tanya
Page definition pull request
<JJ> w3c/
JJ: next item is on page definition
JJ: showing the key terms
<JJ> keyterms.md contains the new page definition: https://
JJ: content may need to be defined
JJ: the section for content definition is shown as work in progress
JJ: looking into what markup is required to put example as a title
JJ: There are 10 to 15 criteria with page
JJ: WCAG to ICT has been updated
<JJ> WCAG2ICT has been updated 21 August: https://
JJ: they fixed the order of their anchor tags with the SC then the number then the name
JJ: would like to talk about content, in some places we replaced any content with any view
JJ: in JJ's opinion that did not work too well with page
JJ: reading audio control SC
JJ: remove web and make page
JJ: reading note the all content on the web page must meet this SC, how do we deal with the use of content how do you replace content with page
JJ: any page vs whole page
JJ: before re replaced content with view and that kind of work but now we have page so not sure how it works that is the question to the group how will we deal with content?
JJ: suggestion that we just add our own term and leave it as content
JJ: this is what WCAG2ICT has done
JJ: they have redefined content for non-web which allowed them to keep using the definition of content without need a replacemeent
JJ: where content or web content appears, they replaced it with that definition
JJ: make note in key terms that we have replaced certain works everywhere
JJ: request you go through pull request to check if missed anything when applying page
JJ: otherwise we are good to go with starting to use page
JJ: checking if any questions
JJ: any questions on page vs content?
<JJ> Any questions about 'page' or 'content' and how to use them?
Joe_Humbert: asking where is the definition of content
definition is empty
JJ: perhaps we can replace content with page in some places
JJ: can't replace content with page in some SC like Captions
JJ: looking at WCAG2ICT
<JJ> Content definition in WCAG2ICT: https://
<Zakim> Jamie, you wanted to react to a previous speaker and to
Jamie: asking why are we trying to make content the same as page?
Jamie: is there a request to make the word content the same as page?
JJ: what we did with view and replaced content with view, it's maybe better to keep content as its own, dont replace it with view or page
JJ: we just have our own mobile specific definition of content
Jamie: content is not indented to be used in that larger picture way in some scenarios
JJ: dont replace content with page keep as written make our own definition at some point
<JJ> pauljadam: content vs page, content can be everything on a page, but content can also be a single paragraph
Joe_Humbert: WCAG2ICT have definition of content that Joe used as part of user agent definition
<Joe_Humbert> w3c/
Joe_Humbert: do we want to modify it, look at it?
JJ: reading definition of content from Joe's link
<Joe_Humbert> https://
JJ: as first draft this definition of content could work in combination with the software definition
Joe_Humbert: posted link to content (web content) definition
JJ: reading definition of content from the WCAG 22 link
JJ: WCAG2ICT only changed user agent to software in their definition
Joe_Humbert: that's what they had so included as starting point
JJ: checking how we did this with software
JJ: content and software definitions can be taken from WCAG 2 ICT with some changes
JJ: could be applied to hybrid and native and web based mobile apps
JJ: ready to go to next topic
2.5.1 Pointer Gestures
JJ: pointer gestures
JJ: hope to get this done for this meeting
JJ: hope to get done by next week
JJ: skipping until updated definition to vote on
JJ: moving to next item
JJ: pointer cancellation
JJ: discussed last week
2.5.2 Pointer Cancellation
JJ: showing pointer cancellation discussion from last week
JJ: comments about OS behaviors, exceptions on OS browser level
JJ: discussion about essential exceptions if they can be applied there
JJ: on the web there are W3C and browser standards
JJ: on mobile it's not always accessible by default and developers dont always have ability to make it accessible
JJ: note 6 added applicability of the OS
JJ: limitations of technology but maybe not make excempt
JJ: asking if anymore comments since last week?
JJ: how will we deal with pointer cancellation and maybe in relation to pointer gestures
<JJ> https://
JJ: showing notes
JJ: note 6 says this requirement applies to platform software, each layer responsible for its own actions, discussed about the layers
JJ: seems the exception is already there if it's out of your scope not in our layer, processed by OS layer or something else then you don't have to worry 0because it's out of scope
JJ: checking if any other comments for this week?
JJ: little more time or we can move to next item
2.5.3 Label in Name
JJ: moving to next item label in name
Jamie: what are we planning to do with these pointer gestures action wise?
Jamie: are we just moving on or what do we need to do for the action?
JJ: draft definition then bring back to group for feedback and move on for now
JJ: discuss with Tanya next Monday to see how we deal with the SCs that are stuck
Jamie: what are we stuck on exactly?
JJ: not stuck just lack of time to update based on latest feedback
JJ: pointer cancellation ahs a little more feedback, need to align
JJ: make sure those notes are not conflicting
JJ: we have enough feedback to make anew draft
JJ: for label in name there was a discussion last week
JJ: discussion include method for reading up cards and cells with long text
JJ: making apps easier to use with shorter labels for voice control
JJ: updating to make text at beginning of accessible name in note 1
JJ: reading possible note from Jamie
JJ: does Jamie have anything else to add?
Jamie: ideas for now, open to any adjustments
Jamie: not partial to the first one
Jamie: want to get the conversation about these 3 topics what to do with multiple text stings, grouping issues
Jamie: voice control note 1 putting text as best practice at beginning of accessible name
JJ: anyone want to give feedback on this approach
JJ: or notes drafted
JJ: no further feedback at this point so same status as gesture
JJ: looks ready to be fine tuned then back to group
JJ: how can we raise more interest feedback out of meeting asking Tanya
JJ: good to go for today
User Agent definition
JJ: 6 item user agent definition
JJ: already looked at earlier today
JJ: in relation to content
JJ: user agent need to figure how to use in mobile apps
JJ: user agent is used in web browser and could be example of OS
JJ: make user agent work need to define software and need to define contnet
JJ: comments on definiton of software how to deal with hybrid web view apps
JJ: what definition of manipulate
JJ: video audio content transcript content
JJ: what is needed to move forward with user agent
JJ: what further work needed?
JJ: or put as key term in draft?
Joe_Humbert: last week discussed AT mentioned in WCAG 2.2 as example in notes or do we want to exclude that or not
<JJ> https://
Joe_Humbert: in example it says web browser media players including assistive technologies
<JJ> Web browsers, media players, plug-ins, and other programs — including assistive technologies — that help in retrieving, rendering, and interacting with web content.
<JJ> "including assistive technologies" > change that?
Joe_Humbert: so if we want to change that it would be a diversion up to us
Joe_Humbert: last week folks wondering why AT was included in user agent definition
JJ: that's clear thanks Joe
JJ: any other comments on user agent?
JJ: user agent can be any software that presents content
<JJ> pauljadam: re. assisistive tech as part of user agent, developers don't have all control
JJ: web browser and AT might be different
Joe_Humbert: you can create your own assistive technology service as part of an app and that's something to consider
<JJ> Joe_Humbert: AccessibilityService on Android to make your own assistive tech
JJ: Accessibility Service lets you make assistive technology like TalkBack
JJ: accessibility service can read all content on the screen for assistive use case
Shoobe01: you can modify a browser, remind people there are AT that interpret content in different ays, likes the definition shown on the screen
JJ: for today clear either include AT or dont or could leave it there at this moment a look at it in the future
Tanya: open question do we need to look at definition in WCAG 3.0?
JJ: not relevant because we're mapping with WCAG 2.2
<shoobe01> pauljadam edit to transcript 08:48 "cannot" modify a browser.
JJ: it's separate set of quide lines we can draw inspiration from but don't have to align
Tanya: worth looking at WCAG 3.0 definitions for inspiration
Tanya: one difference they specify software user agent is software that retrieves and presents external content for users
JJ: external content, what is considered that and what is not
JJ: maybe take a look at WCAG 3
JJ: WCAG 3 was broader that web but now narrowed down to web
Document definition
JJ: last item of today
JJ: document definition
JJ: do a poll on
JJ: drop the term document
JJ: in WCAG2ICT they differentiate between document and software
JJ: we wont need the document definition
JJ: non web document defintion
JJ: dont really need document definition in our guidance
<JJ> Poll: drop document definition in WCAG2Mobile?
<Jamie> +1
JJ: put plus one if you agree to drop, or put -1 or 0 if neutral, if don't agree then please explain, etc.
<Joe_Humbert> +1
<pauljadam> +1
<Tanya> +1
<Tim> +1
<shoobe01> 0
<Carol> +1
<GleidsonRamos> +1
JJ: 5 votes in so far
JJ: 9 participants minus JJ as chair
JJ: 8 votes
ACTION: Group is in favor of dropping the document term (7 times +1 and 1 time 0)
JJ: recorded as action
JJ: end for today
JJ: next week hope to have update after talking with Tanya about milestones of what is achievable this year with goal to work towards
JJ: maybe second publication what could be included
JJ: look at GitHub for issues to work on
JJ: look at issues we discussed today
JJ: leave on github
JJ: checkout page pull request for any typos etc
JJ: thanks for attending, see you next week