W3C

– DRAFT –
WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1

23 July 2025

Attendees

Present
Alexandru_Sorici, Andrei_Ciortea, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Danai_Vachtsevanou, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Jeremy_Lemee, Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
Regrets
-
Chair
Ege, Koster
Scribe
kaz, Ege_Korkan, EgeKorkan

Meeting minutes

Guests

<EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/

Patent Policy because we have guests from the Autonomous Agents on the Web CG

Ege: (describes the notes around the W3C Patent Policy)

Minutes

Ege: can we review the minutes tomorrow?

Kaz: that is good

Ege: no objections, will be reviewed tomorrow

Manageable Affordances

Ege: here are they from webagents cg

https://github.com/w3c-cg/webagents/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Ascenario

Cristiano: I will also give an overview
… I want to have an open discussion. please share feedback
… this work item started some time ago
… like actions that can be queried after starting
… I am now looking into iot platforms
… surprisingly, it is not that common

<kaz> Yet another Action model

Cristiano: I have collected a first set and I am going through them in more detail
… we also have proposals from some time ago, including one from me
… there were proposals to change TDs when action starts, use new terms in action level, and mine was about using TMs for the action modeling
… do you know some platforms that have this feature

Danai: what are the issues with updating TDs

Cristiano: can someone explain the reasoning?

Ege: you can go ahead first

<kaz> analysis-manageable-affordances.md

Cristiano: avoiding overfetching TD, having static TDs to program against

Daniel: there were security concerns

Daniel: also if the TD keeps changing, it is difficult ensure proper signing

Ege: td changing means updating the td in TDD and in the Consumer. Also the way to program the application program changes, requiring adaption on consumer programmers or the implementations
… also it is overkill if only an action's availability of operations change
… might make sense if the whole action dissappears due to state change

Cristiano: do you see this pattern in agent systems

Danai: we work with the assumption that the TD can change. Agents are expected to continuously observe the TD
… so this removes the obstacle of updating the TD
… the alternative I have seen is that when the agent starts the action, a new resource is created that can be used again
… maybe others can comment

Cristiano: creating the resource goes a bit in the direction that I mentioned with TMs

Cristiano: How does the agent get the action resource to be used later on? is it a protocol in the end?

Andrei: for us it is about hypermedia APIs. We consider them dynamic
… the semantic model is hardcoded in the action
… if a new model of an action appears, the agent ignores it

Cristiano: we also need to consider the case of seeing actions created by others

Andrei: there are also research on putting pre and post conditions for actions

Ege: there are overlaps with TM-based approach and the work from Danai and Andrei

Ege: we should look into the physical case, so what is happening in real world

Kaz: it would be interesting to explore state machines
… it would be interesting to combine that with TDs

Cristiano: how can they express such state machines in a WoT-friendly way

Ege: there are always some state machines, since Volkswagen, etc., are already using state machine as the main controller to organize multiple agents for smart car purposes.

Cristiano: would there be a common denominator?

Koster: how to design a hypermedia state machine standard
… that is our question
… how to build it in an explicit way

Cristiano: If I dig into the bacnet alarms and the microscope example, I could find more uses

<cris8> w3c/wot-thing-description#2107

Ege: I think we all agree on trying to describe existing mechanisms

Andrei: we are starting to wrap our it

Cristiano: this hypermedia state machine can be something to work on together
… seems to align with the TM idea I had

Ege: I think we can meet again towards the end of august or beginning of september

(adjourned)

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).