W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

20 February 2025

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
atsushi, xfq

Meeting minutes

<gb> Issue 634 not found

Agenda Review

<gb> Issue 634 not found

Action Items

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

<addison> #157

<gb> Action 157 write glossary proposal identifying options and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20

<addison> #16

<gb> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024

addison: shipping final version of message format

<addison> #156

<gb> Action 156 Figure out what is preferred for Fig 15 at https://r12a.github.io/scripts/bopomofo/ontheweb#horhor (on r12a) due 2025-01-28

r12a: raised queation to influensers

<addison> close #156

<gb> Closed issue #156

<addison> #155

<gb> Action 155 review glossary definitions for normativity or candidates for normativity (on aphillips) due 2025-01-23

r12a: and can close 156

<addison> close #155

<gb> Closed issue #155

addison: did for 155

<addison> #142

<gb> Action 142 check if we can publish the new version of jlreq (on himorin) due 2024-11-21

<addison> #135

<gb> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

<addison> #127

<gb> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

<addison> #89

<gb> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

addison: 33, cleaned up this week

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023

Info Share

[silent]

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

addison: WebAuthn?

Pending Issues

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

<addison> i18n-activity#1971

<gb> Issue 1971 Clarification on `unicode-bidi` for `input type text` and `ruby` (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [whatwg] [Agenda+]

<addison> whatwg/html#10896

<gb> Issue 10896 Clarification on `unicode-bidi` for `input type text` and `ruby` (by Ahmad-S792) [topic: rendering] [topic: forms] [i18n-tracker]

addison: 1971, on html 10896, on ruby with bidi
… specific issue on isolate

atsushi: in JL-TF, this is considered as a sort of edge case, similar to bidi in vertical writing

r12a: question is why you wouldn't want to isolate ruby elements

ACTION: himorin: research activity 1971 (html 10896) about ruby bidi isolation with jltf

<gb> Created action #158

<gb> Issue 634 not found

I18N+CSS Call

Update qa-indic-graphemes.en.html (PR #634)

<addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2025JanMar/0041.html

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html

<r12a> https://deploy-preview-634--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html#partorder

<r12a> https://deploy-preview-634--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html#multiplefamily

r12a: material is url above

[introducing concerning points and updates]

r12a: this points to new version of article

addison: sounds good for me on this article, any objection?

<atsushi> +1

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/beng-gap/#issue87_segmentation

r12a: above link, doing the same thing as gap analysis document

addison: continue to push into other gap documents?

<xfq> "The problem remains for several other scripts"

[discussion on differences around analyses:

Specdev changes related to ByteString

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#151

<gb> Issue 151 Mention `IsomorphicString` and update `ByteString` guidance appropriately (by aphillips) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]

<addison> bp-i18n-specdev#152

<gb> Issue 152 DOMString and protocols (by martinthomson) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]

addison: this is on section in spec-dev on DOMString

<addison> https://w3c.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#char_string

<addison> w3ctag/design-principles#454

<gb> Issue 454 I18N string best practices vs. design-principles (by aphillips) [Status: In Progress] [Status: Consensus to write] [Agenda+] [i18n-needs-resolution]

addison: our bitestring text is slightly different from commenter suggested

<addison> w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#152

<gb> Issue 152 DOMString and protocols (by martinthomson) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]

addison: unclear point between what this points to, in DOMString / ByteString

r12a: for representation of string, need to consider its presentation

addison: talking about actual layout of protocol, it's could be how encoded, not bytestring but sort of encoding
… might not write in detail in specification

JcK: more complexed point, for specification, how to composed for transmission another transformation might be applied, in underlayer protocol

r12a: meaning application protocol should not define details?

addison: binary data or sequence could be said as specific one, but not for wire transfered data

r12a: something complex than current ones, needed?

addison: there is sequence of bytes, any other representations could be over bytes

<addison> An isomorphic string is a string whose code points are all in the range U+0000 NULL to U+00FF (ÿ), inclusive.

addison: as Unicode, above

addison: probably need to add some text here
… bytestring is distinct from other stuff,,, or something?

<addison> The ByteString type corresponds to byte sequences.

<addison> https://webidl.spec.whatwg.org/#idl-ByteString

<xfq> "Specifications should only use ByteString for interfacing with protocols that use bytes and strings interchangeably, such as HTTP."

addison: need to work on proposal here, but wanted to talk within group

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/

addison: some separate document about byte and stuff...?

addison: I may write something, as wiki like document as starter

ACTION: addison: write up proposal for specdev char-string section, adding material that deals with the encoding interface et al

<gb> Created action #159

<gb> Issue 634 not found

AOB?

r12a: looking in charmod fundamentals

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/#sec-Strings

addison: maybe what we want to publlish is a new note that supersedes fundamentals
… which just has the core terminology stuff

xfq: if the note is not long, we can just use specdev

JcK: I worry a little bit about pushing too much into specdev, since nobody's going to look at specdev when developing a spec, isn't it?

addison: seek to pull out and write as some text

Summary of action items

  1. himorin: research activity 1971 (html 10896) about ruby bidi isolation with jltf
  2. addison: write up proposal for specdev char-string section, adding material that deals with the encoding interface et al
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 242 (Fri Dec 20 18:32:17 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/virtical/vertical

Succeeded: s/why don't isolate isolate within ruby/why you wouldn't want to isolate ruby elements/

Succeeded: s/bitestring/ByteString/

Succeeded: s/character code foundermentals/charmod fundamentals/

Succeeded: s/note is not long, and can just use spec-dev text/if the note is not long, we can just use specdev/

Succeeded: s/should be general interest, and could be stand aline than specdev/I worry a little bit about pushing too much into specdev, since nobody's going to look at specdev when developing a spec, isn't it?/

Maybe present: r12a, xfq

All speakers: addison, atsushi, JcK, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, atsushi, r12a, xfq