14:53:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:53:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-i18n-irc
14:53:46 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:53:53 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250220T150000/
14:53:53 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:53:53 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:53:53 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:53:55 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:53:56 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:53:57 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
14:53:59 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issues
14:54:02 <agendabot> agenda+ I18N+CSS Call
14:54:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Update qa-indic-graphemes.en.html (PR #634)
14:54:04 <gb> Issue 634 not found
14:54:06 <agendabot> agenda+ Specdev changes related to ByteString
14:54:09 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:56:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:57:28 <addison> present+ Addison
14:57:51 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:00:47 <addison> present+ JcK, Fuqiao
15:01:03 <addison> present+ Bert
15:01:27 <addison> present+ Atsushi, Richard
15:02:26 <atsushi> scribe+
15:02:30 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:02:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:02:31 <addison> agenda?
15:02:34 <gb> Issue 634 not found
15:02:59 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:02:59 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:03:07 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues
15:03:12 <addison> #157
15:03:13 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/157 -> Action 157  write glossary proposal identifying options and next steps for those options (on aphillips) due 2025-02-20
15:03:25 <addison> #16
15:03:26 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16 -> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) due 1 Jan 2024
15:03:29 <atsushi> addison: shipping final version of message format
15:03:50 <addison> #156
15:03:50 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/156 -> Action 156 Figure out what is preferred for Fig 15 at https://r12a.github.io/scripts/bopomofo/ontheweb#horhor (on r12a) due 2025-01-28
15:03:50 <atsushi> r12a: raised queation to influensers
15:04:00 <addison> close #156
15:04:01 <gb> Closed -> issue #156 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/156
15:04:05 <addison> #155
15:04:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/155 -> Action 155  review glossary definitions for normativity or candidates for normativity (on aphillips) due 2025-01-23
15:04:08 <atsushi> ... and can close 156
15:04:17 <addison> close #155
15:04:19 <gb> Closed -> issue #155 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/155
15:04:23 <atsushi> addison: did for 155
15:04:24 <addison> #142
15:04:25 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/142 -> Action 142 check if we can publish the new version of jlreq (on himorin) due 2024-11-21
15:04:35 <addison> #135
15:04:36 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135  follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17
15:04:41 <addison> #127
15:04:41 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127 -> Action 127  make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30
15:04:53 <addison> #89
15:04:53 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89 -> Action 89  update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18
15:05:00 <addison> #33
15:05:01 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
15:05:11 <addison> #7
15:05:11 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023
15:05:12 <atsushi> addison: 33, cleaned up this week
15:05:20 <addison> #4
15:05:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023
15:05:30 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:05:30 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:07 <atsushi> [silent]
15:06:11 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:06:11 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:19 <addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1
15:07:05 <atsushi> addison: WebAuthn?
15:07:17 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
15:07:17 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:26 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
15:07:52 <addison> i18n-activity#1971
15:07:53 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1971 -> Issue 1971 Clarification on `unicode-bidi` for `input type text` and `ruby` (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [whatwg] [Agenda+]
15:08:07 <addison> whatwg/html#10896
15:08:08 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/10896 -> Issue 10896 Clarification on `unicode-bidi` for `input type text` and `ruby` (by Ahmad-S792) [topic: rendering] [topic: forms] [i18n-tracker]
15:09:15 <atsushi> addison: 1971, on html 10896, on ruby with bidi
15:09:29 <atsushi> ... specific issue on isolate
15:11:50 <r12a> q+
15:11:57 <addison> ack next
15:12:03 <atsushi> atsushi: in JL-TF, this is considered as a sort of edge case, similar to bidi in virtical writing
15:12:17 <atsushi> r12a: question is why don't isolate isolate within ruby
15:13:41 <addison> action: himorin: research activity 1971 (html 10896) about ruby bidi isolation with jltf
15:13:49 <gb> Created -> action #158 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/158
15:13:49 <xfq> s/virtical/vertical
15:14:09 <addison> agenda?
15:14:10 <gb> Issue 634 not found
15:14:17 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
15:14:17 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- I18N+CSS Call -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:14:36 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
15:14:36 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Update qa-indic-graphemes.en.html (PR #634) -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:14:43 <r12a> s/why don't isolate isolate within ruby/why you wouldn't want to isolate ruby elements/
15:14:50 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2025JanMar/0041.html
15:14:59 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html
15:15:32 <r12a> https://deploy-preview-634--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html#partorder
15:15:42 <r12a> https://deploy-preview-634--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-indic-graphemes.en.html#multiplefamily
15:15:46 <atsushi> r12a: material is url above
15:17:16 <atsushi> [introducing concerning points and updates]
15:20:12 <atsushi> r12a: this points to new version of article
15:20:26 <atsushi> addison: sounds good for me on this article, any objection?
15:20:57 <atsushi> +1
15:21:18 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/beng-gap/#issue87_segmentation
15:21:36 <atsushi> r12a: above link, doing the same thing as gap analysis document
15:22:32 <atsushi> addison: continue to push into other gap documents?
15:23:06 <xfq> "The problem remains for several other scripts"
15:25:01 <atsushi> [discussion on differences around analyses:
15:26:44 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:26:44 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Specdev changes related to ByteString -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:27:09 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/151
15:27:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/151 -> Issue 151 Mention `IsomorphicString` and update `ByteString` guidance appropriately (by aphillips) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]
15:27:26 <addison> bp-i18n-specdev#152
15:27:26 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/152 -> Issue 152 DOMString and protocols (by martinthomson) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]
15:28:00 <atsushi> addison: this is on section in spec-dev on DOMString
15:28:02 <addison> https://w3c.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#char_string
15:28:39 <addison> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-principles/issues/454
15:28:39 <gb> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-principles/issues/454 -> Issue 454 I18N string best practices vs. design-principles (by aphillips) [Status: In Progress] [Status: Consensus to write] [Agenda+] [i18n-needs-resolution]
15:30:07 <atsushi> addison: our bitestring text is slightly different from commenter suggested
15:30:09 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/152
15:30:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/152 -> Issue 152 DOMString and protocols (by martinthomson) [bug] [Agenda+] [Best Practice]
15:31:43 <atsushi> addison: unclear point between what this points to, in DOMString / bitestring
15:32:18 <atsushi> r12a: for representation of string, need to consider its presentation
15:32:55 <atsushi> addison: talking about actual layout of protocol, it's could be how encoded, not bytestring  but sort of encoding
15:33:07 <atsushi> ... might not write in detail in specification
15:33:53 <atsushi> JcK: more complexed point, for specification, how to composed for transmission another transformation might be applied, in underlayer protocol
15:34:01 <xfq> s/bitestring/ByteString/
15:34:24 <atsushi> r12a: meaning application protocol should not define details?
15:34:42 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:35:28 <atsushi> addison: binary data or sequence could be said as specific one, but not for wire transfered data
15:36:29 <atsushi> r12a: something complex than current ones, needed?
15:37:21 <atsushi> addison: there is sequence of bytes, any other representations could be over bytes
15:38:23 <addison> An isomorphic string is a string whose code points are all in the range U+0000 NULL to U+00FF (ÿ), inclusive.
15:39:05 <atsushi> addison: as Unicode, above
15:40:11 <atsushi> addison: probably need to add some text here
15:40:25 <atsushi> ... bytestring is distinct from other stuff,,, or something?
15:41:43 <addison> The ByteString type corresponds to byte sequences.
15:42:19 <addison> https://webidl.spec.whatwg.org/#idl-ByteString
15:42:59 <xfq> "Specifications should only use ByteString for interfacing with protocols that use bytes and strings interchangeably, such as HTTP."
15:45:57 <atsushi> addison: need to work on proposal here, but wanted to talk within group
15:46:38 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/
15:47:37 <atsushi> ... some separate document about byte and stuff...?
15:49:08 <atsushi> addison: I may write something, as wiki like document as starter
15:50:11 <addison> action: addison: write up proposal for specdev char-string section, adding material that deals with the encoding interface et al
15:50:12 <gb> Created -> action #159 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/159
15:50:44 <addison> agenda?
15:50:46 <gb> Issue 634 not found
15:51:00 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:51:00 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:51:24 <atsushi> r12a: looking in character code foundermentals
15:54:53 <xfq> s/character code foundermentals/charmod fundamentals/
15:55:10 <xfq> scribe+
15:55:26 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/#sec-Strings
15:55:27 <xfq> addison: maybe what we want to publlish is a new note that supersedes fundamentals
15:55:38 <xfq> ... which just has the core terminology stuff
15:56:17 <atsushi> xfq: note is not long, and can just use spec-dev text
15:56:53 <atsushi> JcK: should be general interest, and could be stand aline than specdev
15:57:13 <xfq> s/note is not long, and can just use spec-dev text/if the note is not long, we can just use specdev/
15:57:44 <atsushi> addison: seek to pull out and write as some text
15:58:03 <xfq> s/should be general interest, and could be stand aline than specdev/I worry a little bit about pushing too much into specdev, since nobody's going to look at specdev when developing a spec, isn't it?/
15:59:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/20-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:59:23 <addison> zakim, who is here?
15:59:23 <Zakim> Present: Addison, JcK, Fuqiao, Bert, Atsushi, Richard
15:59:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see JcK, RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, r12a, atsushi, fantasai, koji, astearns, alastairc, Rachael, jyasskin, hadleybeeman, cwilso, eemeli, florian, csarven, agendabot, gb,
15:59:24 <Zakim> ... plh, xfq, Bert
15:59:31 <addison> zakim, bye
15:59:31 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, JcK, Fuqiao, Bert, Atsushi, Richard
15:59:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n