W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

21 November 2024

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, r12a, xfq
Regrets
JcK
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
xfq, addison

Meeting minutes

Agenda Review

Action Items

addison: anybody got something that they don't see in the agenda?

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues

<addison> #142

<gb> Action 142 check if we can publish the new version of jlreq (on himorin) due 2024-11-21

atsushi: #142, trying to work on it, still pending

atsushi: there's a long standing PR
… I need to check

<addison> #141

<gb> Action 141 set up IETF reviews requested by mnot@ et al (on xfq) due 2024-11-14

<addison> #139

<gb> Action 139 review old timezone note to ensure all content is present and accounted for (on aphillips) due 2024-11-07

<addison> xfq: did contact mnot about where to put comments

<addison> ... send comments to authors and art area mailing list and iesg

addison: traditionally, the IETF does everything on mailing lists
… what that probably means is that we should collect everything and write one email to the IESG list

<addison> close #139

<gb> Closed issue #139

<addison> #135

<gb> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17

addison: let's actually see the reviews and then decide what, if anything, we want to do

<addison> #134

<gb> Action 134 file an issue about making input respect locale (on aphillips) due 2024-10-05

<addison> #127

<gb> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

<addison> #125

<gb> Action 125 propose creating a UTR for text-emphasis skip if we can get help with maintain (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30

<addison> #114

<gb> Action 114 read through i18n-activity#1659 and report on whether we're satisfied (on r12a) due 2024-08-22

<addison> #90

<gb> Action 90 steal some of henri's text from scroll-to-text-fragment for string-search (on aphillips) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #89

<gb> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18

<addison> #33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

<addison> #8

xfq: dark mode, no progress

<gb> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023

<addison> #4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023

Info Share

addison: you may have all seen my email about the string-meta presentation

r12a: I was talking with xfq earlier today and we were both thinking just recently that we've been thinking of starting a new account on Bluesky
… now you have to have a Twitter account to be able to see stuff

addison: since it's work to put stuff out there, we should minimize the work

r12a: we've been doing it
… what we do is we post the info on Mastodon and then we take that over and copy it basically, maybe resize it a little to X
… it's not a major hassle

<Bert> Don't know much about Bluesky, so no objection there. Leaving X seems good.

addison: any objection?

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1

addison: Input Events

<addison> w3c/input-events#166

<gb> Issue 166 Horizontal Review of Input events (by siusin)

<Bert> Media Capabilities not done yet

xfq: EPUB 3.3, still pending
… also for DAPT

Pending Issue Review

addison: I observed xfq have three to do by a month from now

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending

addison: do you want me to take Input Events?

<addison> #1860

<gb> Issue 1860 not found

xfq: that's very helpful

<addison> i18n-activity#1860

<gb> Issue 1860 type should be defined as identical to but not contain (by himorin) [pending] [non-I18N] [wg:vc] [s:controller-document]

addison: I'll take that one then

addison: did you ever file that issue?

atsushi: sorry, I think I totally forgot about this
… it seems the document has been updated

<addison> i18n-activity#1940

<gb> Issue 1940 0xA3 0xA0 in GB 18030 (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [spec-type-issue] [clreq] [s:encoding] [whatwg]

addison: I saw some traffic on #1940

<gb> Issue 1940 not found

<addison> xfq: basically, the encoding spec, they changed the mapping of 0xA3 0xA0

<addison> ... in gb18030 to U+3000 in Unicode

<addison> ... it should map to E5E5, which is a PUA code point per GB

<addison> ... but they don't map it according to GB because a bug filed in 2002

<addison> ... people were using as a space characters and 3000 is ideographic space

<addison> ... it doesn't conform to GB standard

<addison> ... file to see: do we need to keep this?

<addison> xfq: since webpages using GB18030 are really few

<addison> ... if they changed the mapping to conform, it would affect many pages

<addison> ... their counter argument is that, then, yeah, we don't need to update this

<addison> ... because it won't improve anything

<addison> ... haven't analyzed if code points are really used to indicate space or not

<addison> addison: what is the character 18030 thinks its encoding?

<addison> xfq: it's a private use code point

https://pica.zhimg.com/80/v2-0ddb4db958237498fb3e34a36c3625c9_1440w.webp?source=1def8aca

ACTION: addison: make comments on the encoding issue attached to i18n-activity#1940

<gb> Created action #143

addison: because it's a non-character code point, I would almost rather see it go to FFFD
… if GB 18030 hasn't assigned it

Proposed New Article: How to make list markers stand upright in vertical text

addison: that's something to look up

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html

r12a: I'd like to send this out for a wide review
… got one comment already from Murata-san
… but it was a bit vague
… he didn't tell me what browser he was using or which example exactly he was talking about
… we talked about this on Tuesday with fantasai and florian
… Murata-san's issue was that the digits above the vertical lines didn't look completely centered
… it seems I need to raise an issue against the browsers
… that says you should align these combined upright
… bits of text with the center baseline

addison: @@1
… I see the non-centeredness of it on Firefox

addison: I think the glyph does that

[addison shares screen]

[r12a shares screen]

addison: is there any objection?

Merge: Language negotiation

r12a: I started writing an article about how to make oblique text lean in the writing direction of rtl scripts
… lean to the left rather than to the right
… which is a bit problematic at the moment
… I don't know whether that's still a useful thing to write up

addison: it may have a short shelf life

r12a: it might be useful for other people to better understand the situation too

addison: if you've done the work, then putting it somewhere is maybe a good idea

i18n-drafts#581

<gb> Pull Request 581 Initial work on language-negotiation materials (by aphillips)

addison: we don't really have a blog

https://github.com/aphillips/i18n-drafts/blob/gh-pages/articles/language-negotiation/language-negotiation.md

addison: my article on language and locale negotiation ^
… I'm not perfectly happy with this
… I don't like my long example table
… other than that, I think it's got most of the info in it
… I'd like to merge the Markdown into our repo and then work on the conversion
… to HTML

ACTION: addison: remind everyone to read the language negotiation article

<gb> Created action #144

Publish DNOTE: Working with Time and Timezones

https://w3c.github.io/timezone/

addison: there is the current draft which has all of the material ^
… do you all want to consider it some more before we make it a draft note?

r12a: it may need a Contributors section at the beginning of the Introduction

addison: there's an Acknowledgements section

r12a: yeah, but we agreed to start putting that stuff at the top of the document

addison: much of that is preserved from the past

addison: I'll add Richard

https://www.w3.org/TR/clreq/#contributors

xfq: see clreq Contributors section

addison: do I just get rid of the Acknowledgements section?
… and just turn it into Contributors?

r12a: yeah

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/alreq/#h_acknowledgements

r12a: I kept the ID for alreq

addison: or I could double ID for the section

ACTION: addison: publish timezone for wide review

<gb> Created action #145

addison: I'll publish it with Contributors

AOB?

addison: do y'all want to have a meeting next week?
… next week is US holiday, Thanksgiving
… the Christmas holiday falls the day before this call in that week
… in the last full week of this year
… anybody want to have a meeting that week or shall I cancel that one?
… and also the meeting of Jan 2
… any objection to removing those?

r12a: not for me

addison: all right, so I'll cancel those two calls
… if memory serves, the CSS call is on the 24th

ACTION: addison: create new calendar entry for I18N+CSS

r12a: maybe remove that one

<gb> Created action #146

Summary of action items

  1. addison: make comments on the encoding issue attached to i18n-activity#1940
  2. addison: remind everyone to read the language negotiation article
  3. addison: publish timezone for wide review
  4. addison: create new calendar entry for I18N+CSS
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 238 (Fri Oct 18 20:51:13 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/Not yet/Media Capabilities not done yet/

All speakers: addison, atsushi, r12a, xfq

Active on IRC: addison, Bert, r12a, xfq