W3C

– DRAFT –
Publishing Steering Committee

11 October 2024

Attendees

Present
Avneesh, Bill_Kasdorf, Cristina, Daihei, George, Graham, Leslie, liisamk, Ralph, Rich, rickj, Shinya, Tzviya, WendyReid, Wolfgang
Regrets
-
Chair
Rick
Scribe
Ralph, Graham6

Meeting minutes

Graham++

Status of IDPF

Rick: we've had two meetings with Seth to update him on where things stand

<Graham6> OK, I can take over

Rick: he will update the W3C Board

After he outlined the model, Rick asked for questions

George: D&O insurance would continue to be paid by W3C, since IDPF would remain separate board

Bill K: Seth acknowledged continued support for things like EPUB check

Bill K: Rick noted that addition of W3C representatives to IDPF board is 'effectively' what the aim of the original merger was

Tzviya: asked for a summary

Rick: summarised

BG to CG?

Rick: next topic - changing the Business group into a community group. Consensus not to do that at last meeting

Rick: so will not take that idea forward

Participation in the various {C,B,W}Gs

Rick: would it help our focus if other consolidation of groups took place?

George: questioned how to get broader participation in incubation ideas within the community groups

Wendy: careful what we mean by 'incubation". Means in our context that there has been experimentation, tests, discussion etc. Need to be careful on the specifics of what we are exploring, particularly prior to re-chartering

Wendy: don't want to prevent incubation, by allowing innovation within a community group

Avneesh: while using working group for finalisation of recommendations

Avneesh: while CG can be flexible, Was need to be focused

*WG = WG

Avneesh: WGs need some resourcing

Wolfgang: CG needs new ideas.

Rick: calls for ideas to drive new activity within the CG

Rick: new item

<wolfgang> +1 to Rick!

Publishing Maintenance WG chairs

TPAC summary

<wendyreid> w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter

Wendy: successful day at TPAC, lots of energy. discussed webtoons, accessibility, etc. Came to conclusion that the rechartering was needed

Wendy: now working on new charter, which will enable future work on an update to EPUB

Wendy: and annotations

Wendy: and annotations, and HTML serialization

<Bill_Kasdorf> Does the annotations work include addressing the locators issue, I presume?

George: some ideas for new charter – improving accessibility for FXL, interactivity and interoperability (eg with QTI in education)

Is there anything we should/could add on TDM? #29

Liisa: Should we fold in TDM? Wendy: TBM cannot currently be referred to as it is a community note

Publishing Maintenance WG charter issues

Wendy: some work envisioned to refine FXL. TPAC discussion also surfaced some more fundamental issues in structure that cannot be addressed in EPUB 3 because they would break back-compatibility. Need to be addressed in EPUB next version

Wendy: Doesn't preclude refinement of accessibility in EPUB 3, but incubation of new ideas for EPUB next should go to CG

Add feature Get Citation to the charter #22 [discusses "annotations" vs "citations" vs "locators"]

Wendy (responding to Liisa): needs some guidance from BG to CG to guide work on annotations. Needs people from (eg) education as well as trade. George agreed.

George: Is FXL accessibility a big (enough)problem that it needs fixing quickly (based on ADA Title.2 deadlines)

Rick: there are publishing partners that can be brought into this discussion about FXL accessibility

Next topic

Liisa: meeting soon to pull together work to put to BG, re question around whether DRM prevents (or reduces) accessibility.

Rick: funding for EPUBcheck needs to be considered during rechartering. Do we still think this funding mechanism belongs to the BG?

Rick: or should it be pushed to W3C?

Christina: Returning to TDM – very relevant for AI, so important. Returning to DRM, EAA mandates that any DRM must not impede accessibility

Christina: Adobe treat DRM (and Indesign) as cash cows, so might be difficult to persuade them to make any changes

Liisa: If Seth acknowledged need to support EPUBcheck, can we begin to move responsibility for support to W3C itself.

Liisa: noting lack of updates to ADE, meaning limited accessibility

Wendy: What does BG want to do with TDM note? Is the goal to put it on the rec track?

Liisa: BG would like TDM on rec track

Bill: EAA problematic for ADE

George: it's a mess, and publisher's often have to provide DRM-free alternatives for education purposes

<Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to ask a followup

Wendy: need charter to put TDM on rec track. If we do this, a range of solutions will need to be considered. Ans what is the expected behaviour of reading systems in response to TBM

TDM

[I think Wendy is asking "what is the user agent behaviour that TDM expects?"]

Christina: TDM is an instruction to AI training systems, not specifically to reading systems

<Zakim> liisamk, you wanted to answer what the goal of TDM is

<Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to point out some potential user impacts

Liisa: we expect reading systems to note presence of the opt-out (and presumably prevent it being passed to AI systems)

Wendy: there are user features (eg translation, summarisation) that might have to be blocked by reading systems

Christina: publisher contracts with author, and the author may not want content to be used for AI

<Zakim> still, you wanted to comment on TDM

Leslie: TDM is about opting out of training, not out of other uses of AI

Leslie: should communicate our adoption of TDM because there ARE other methods (and we don't want multiple methods of options out

(Graham: agree with Leslie –must differentiate between use of content for training, and use of content as source data (for summarisation eg)

Ralph: Good discussion.

Ralph: Sylvia Cadena, our newly hired chief development officer will be responsible for building funding streams other than membership

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on epubcheck support

Rick: community group

Publishing Community Group Chairs

Wolfgang: see a lot of activity in the task forces, A11Y, anti-counterfeiting etc. But again, these groups need BG input.

BillK: three active task forces is exactly how CGs should work.

<Ralph> [+1 to getting the TDM CG to present to the Publishing CG]

Leslie: TDM needs more discussion in the community group

BillK: could generate more activity in CG

Text and Data Mining Reservation Protocol Community Group

Liisa: if BG puts TDM on the agenda, then it can be taken forward

Wolfgang: agree this is a good idea. CG should incubate ideas that are business-relavant

Rick: AOB?

Shinya: conference today in Tokyo. Should regions reports be a regular topic in these meetings? [is that right? my audio is poor)

Rick: thanks. Closed themeeting

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 237 (Fri Oct 4 02:31:45 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/SC Chairs/Status of IDPF/

Succeeded: s/Was/WG/

Succeeded: s/TBM/TDM/

Succeeded: s/TBM/TDM/

Succeeded: s/new chief/Sylvia Cadena, our newly hired chief/

Maybe present: (Graham, Bill, BillK, Christina, Liisa, Rick, Wendy

All speakers: (Graham, Avneesh, Bill, BillK, Christina, George, Leslie, Liisa, Ralph, Rick, Shinya, Tzviya, Wendy, Wolfgang

Active on IRC: AvneeshSingh, Bill_Kasdorf, George, Graham6, Leslie, LIA, liisamk, Ralph, rickj, shiestyle, tzviya8, wendyreid, wolfgang