14:00:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:00:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/11-pbgsc-irc
14:00:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:50 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
14:00:50 <liisamk> present+
14:00:54 <Ralph> present+
14:00:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
14:01:28 <Ralph> present+ Rich, George, Daihei, Wolfgang, Graham, Shinya, WendyReid, Avneesh
14:01:31 <wendyreid> present+
14:01:32 <wolfgang> present+
14:01:33 <Ralph> chair: Rick
14:01:56 <rickj> present+
14:02:12 <Ralph> Graham++
14:02:16 <Ralph> scribe+
14:02:17 <Leslie> Leslie has joined #pbgsc
14:02:53 <Ralph> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e6290b96-22a4-4467-a5b2-298419cbcde9/20241011T100000/
14:03:00 <Ralph> topic: SC Chairs
14:03:04 <Graham6> Graham6 has joined #pbgsc
14:03:13 <Ralph> Rick: we've had two meetings with Seth to update him on where things stand
14:04:34 <Graham6> OK, I can take over
14:04:40 <Ralph> ... he will update the W3C Board
14:04:52 <Ralph> scribe+ Graham6
14:05:00 <Graham6> After he outlined the model, Rick asked for questions
14:05:01 <rickj> q?
14:05:33 <Ralph> present+ Tzviya
14:05:34 <Graham6> George: D&O insurance would continue to be paid by W3C, since IDPF would remain separate board
14:06:17 <Graham6> Bill K: Seth acknowledged continued support for things like EPUB check
14:06:30 <Ralph> present+ Cristina
14:06:40 <Ralph> present+ Leslie
14:07:31 <Graham6> Bill K: Rick noted that addition of W3C representatives to IDPF board is 'effectively' what the aim of the original merger was
14:08:04 <Graham6> Tzviya: asked for a summary
14:08:39 <Graham6> Rick: summarised
14:10:00 <Ralph> topic: BG to CG?
14:10:25 <Graham6> Rick: next topic - changing the Business group into a community group. Consensus not to do that at last meeting
14:10:27 <Ralph> s/SC Chairs/Status of IDPF/
14:10:35 <Graham6> Rick: so will not take that idea forward
14:11:18 <Ralph> topic: Participation in the various {C,B,W}Gs
14:11:29 <Graham6> Rick: would it help our focus if other consolidation of groups took place?
14:11:40 <wendyreid> q+
14:11:45 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:11:54 <tzviya8> q+ to clarify role of incubation
14:12:27 <Graham6> George: questioned how to get broader participation in incubation ideas within the community groups
14:12:54 <tzviya8> q-
14:13:33 <rickj> q+
14:13:41 <Graham6> Wendy: careful what we mean by 'incubation". Means in our context that there has been experimentation, tests, discussion etc. Need to be careful on the specifics of what we are exploring, particularly prior to re-chartering
14:14:35 <rickj> q-
14:14:52 <Graham6> Wendy: don't want to prevent incubation, by allowing innovation within a community group
14:15:15 <Graham6> Avneesh: while using working group for finalisation of recommendations
14:15:47 <Graham6> Avneesh: while CG can be flexible, Was need to be focused
14:16:14 <Graham6> *Was = WG
14:16:28 <wolfgang> q+
14:16:29 <rickj> q?
14:16:51 <Graham6> Avneesh: WGs need some resourcing
14:17:18 <Graham6> Wolfgang: CG needs new ideas.
14:18:05 <Graham6> Rick: calls for ideas to drive new activity within the CG
14:18:12 <wendyreid> s/Was/WG/
14:18:16 <Graham6> Rick: new item
14:18:19 <wolfgang> +1 to Rick!
14:18:23 <Ralph> topic: Publishing Maintenance WG chairs
14:19:06 <Ralph> subtopic: TPAC summary
14:19:32 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter
14:19:33 <Graham6> Wendy: successful day at TPAC, lots of energy. discussed webtoons, accessibility, etc. Came to conclusion that the rechartering was needed
14:19:59 <rickj> q?
14:20:00 <Graham6> Wendy: now working on new charter, which will enable future work on an update to EPUB
14:20:13 <Graham6> Wendy: and annotations
14:20:17 <rickj> ack wolfgang
14:20:46 <Graham6> Wendy: and annotations, and HTML serialization
14:21:00 <liisamk> q+
14:21:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> Does the annotations work include addressing the locators issue, I presume?
14:22:14 <Graham6> George: some ideas for new charter – improving accessibility for FXL, interactivity and interoperability (eg with QTI in education)
14:22:14 <wendyreid> q+
14:22:49 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/issues/29 Is there anything we should/could add on TDM? #29
14:23:11 <Graham6> Liisa: Should we fold in TBM? Wendy: TBM cannot currently be referred to as it is a community note
14:24:18 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/issues Publishing Maintenance WG charter issues
14:24:32 <rickj> q?
14:24:33 <wendyreid> s/TBM/TDM/
14:24:37 <rickj> ack liisamk
14:25:00 <rickj> ack wendyreid
14:25:02 <Graham6> Wendy: some work envisioned to refine FXL. TPAC discussion also surfaced some more fundamental issues in structure that cannot be addressed in EPUB 3 because they would break back-compatibility. Need to be addressed in EPUB next version
14:26:07 <Graham6> Wendy: Doesn't preclude refinement of accessibility in EPUB 3, but incubation of new ideas for EPUB next should go to CG
14:26:26 <rickj> q+
14:26:56 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/issues/22 "Add feature Get Citation to the charter #22" [discusses "annotations" vs "citations" vs "locators"]
14:28:09 <Graham6> Wendy (responding to Liisa): needs some guidance from BG to CG to guide work on annotations. Needs people from (eg) education as well as trade. George agreed.
14:29:01 <Graham6> George: Is FXL accessibility a big (enough)problem that it needs fixing quickly (based on ADA Title.2 deadlines)
14:29:23 <Graham6> Rick: there are publishing partners that can be brought into this discussion about FXL accessibility
14:29:28 <rickj> ack rickj
14:29:29 <Graham6> Next topic
14:29:49 <rickj> q+
14:30:44 <Graham6> Liisa: meeting soon to pull together work to put to BG, re question around whether DRM prevents (or reduces) accessibility.
14:31:16 <LIA> LIA has joined #pbgsc
14:31:30 <LIA> q+
14:31:32 <Graham6> Rick: funding for EPUBcheck needs to be considered during rechartering. Do we still think this funding mechanism belongs to the BG?
14:31:36 <liisamk> q+
14:31:52 <Graham6> Rick: or should it be pushed to W3C?
14:31:55 <rickj> ack rickj
14:33:50 <Graham6> Christina: Returning to TDM – very relevant for AI, so important. Returning to DRM, EAA mandates that any DRM must not impede accessibility
14:34:18 <rickj> ack liisamk
14:34:22 <Graham6> Christina: Adobe treat DRM (and Indesign) as cash cows, so might be difficult to persuade them to make any changes
14:34:27 <wendyreid> q+
14:35:22 <Graham6> Liisa: If Seth acknowledged need to support EPUBcheck, can we begin to move responsibility for support to W3C itself.
14:35:35 <rickj> ack wendyreid
14:37:00 <wendyreid> q+
14:37:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:37:30 <Graham6> Liisa: noting lack of updates to ADE, meaning limited accessibility
14:37:58 <liisamk> q+
14:38:18 <Graham6> Wendy: What does BG want to do with TBM note? Is the goal to put it on the rec track?
14:38:36 <wendyreid> s/TBM/TDM/
14:38:52 <rickj> ack wendyreid
14:39:06 <wendyreid> q+ to ask a followup
14:39:07 <Graham6> Liisa: BG would like TDM on rec track
14:39:21 <LIA> q+
14:39:50 <Graham6> Bill: EAA problematic for ADE
14:39:53 <rickj> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:40:25 <Graham6> George: it's a mess, and publisher's often have to provide DRM-free alternatives for education purposes
14:40:26 <rickj> ack wendyreid
14:40:26 <Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to ask a followup
14:40:40 <LIA> q+
14:41:25 <liisamk> q+ to answer what the goal of TDM is
14:41:41 <rickj> ack LIA
14:41:42 <Graham6> Wendy: need charter to put TDM on rec track. If we do this, a range of solutions will need to be considered. Ans what is the expected behaviour of reading systems in response to TBM
14:41:44 <Graham6> TDM
14:42:06 <Ralph> [I think Wendy is asking "what is the user agent behaviour that TDM expects?"]
14:42:43 <wendyreid> q+ to point out some potential user impacts
14:42:56 <George> q+
14:43:08 <Graham6> Christina: TDM is an instruction to AI training systems, not specifically to reading systems
14:43:17 <rickj> ack liisamk
14:43:17 <Zakim> liisamk, you wanted to answer what the goal of TDM is
14:44:00 <rickj> ack wendyreid
14:44:00 <Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to point out some potential user impacts
14:44:08 <Leslie> q+ still on TDM
14:44:44 <Graham6> Liisa: we expect reading systems to note presence of the opt-out (and presumably prevent it being passed to AI systems)
14:45:20 <Graham6> Wendy: there are user features (eg translation, summarisation) that might have to be blocked by reading systems
14:45:21 <rickj> ack George
14:45:50 <Graham6> q+
14:46:27 <Graham6> Christina: publisher contracts with author, and the author may not want content to be used for AI
14:46:42 <rickj> ack still
14:46:42 <Zakim> still, you wanted to comment on TDM
14:47:11 <Graham6> Leslie: TDM is about opting out of training, not out of other uses of AI
14:47:15 <Graham6> q-
14:47:24 <rickj> vq?
14:48:11 <Graham6> Leslie: should communicate our adoption of TDM because there ARE other methods (and we don't want multiple methods of options out
14:48:55 <Graham6> (Graham: agree with Leslie –must differentiate between use of content for training, and use of content as source data (for summarisation eg)
14:49:14 <Graham6> Ralph: Good discussion.
14:49:53 <Graham6> Ralph: new chief development officer will be responsible for building funding streams other than membership
14:50:15 <rickj> q?
14:50:19 <rickj> ack Ralph
14:50:19 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on epubcheck support
14:50:32 <Graham6> Rick: community group
14:50:40 <Ralph> topic: Publishing Community Group Chairs
14:51:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:51:31 <Ralph> s/new chief/Sylvia Cadena, our newly hired chief/
14:51:35 <Graham6> Wolfgang: see a lot of activity in the task forces, A11Y, anti-counterfeiting etc. But again, these groups need BG input.
14:52:19 <rickj> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:53:24 <Leslie> q+
14:53:26 <Graham6> BillK: three active task forces is exactly how CGs should work.
14:53:35 <rickj> ack Leslie
14:54:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:54:26 <liisamk> q+
14:54:29 <rickj> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:54:36 <Ralph> <Ralph> [+1 to getting the TDM CG to present to the Publishing CG]
14:55:03 <Graham6> Leslie: TDM needs more discussion in the community group
14:55:13 <wolfgang> q+
14:55:17 <Graham6> BillK: could generate more activity in CG
14:55:26 <rickj> ack liisamk
14:55:47 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/tdmrep/ Text and Data Mining Reservation Protocol Community Group
14:56:03 <rickj> ack wolfgang
14:56:24 <Graham6> Liisa: if BG puts TDM on the agenda, then it can be taken forward
14:56:58 <shiestyle> q+
14:56:59 <Graham6> Wolfgang: agree this is a good idea. CG should incubate ideas that are business-relavant
14:57:11 <Graham6> Rick: AOB?
14:57:12 <rickj> ack shiestyle
14:58:15 <Graham6> Shinya: conference today in Tokyo. Should regions reports be a regular topic in these meetings? [is that right? my audio is poor)
14:58:28 <Graham6> Rick: thanks. Closed themeeting
14:58:43 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
14:58:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been liisamk, Ralph, Bill_Kasdorf, Rich, George, Daihei, Wolfgang, Graham, Shinya, WendyReid, Avneesh, rickj, Tzviya, Cristina, Leslie
14:58:46 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
14:58:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/11-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
14:58:54 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:58:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
14:58:55 <rickj> zakim, end meetingh
14:59:28 <rickj> rrsagent, bye
14:59:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items