Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

29 January 2024


abbey, Becca_Monteleone, Eric_hind, Jan, Jennie, julierawe, JustineP, kevin, kirkwood, lisa, Rain
David Swallow, Tiffany
Becca, Becca_Monteleone

Meeting minutes

<lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021 see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract

<lisa> שעקמגש?

<lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021 see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract

<lisa> next item

Lisa: goal of meeting to discuss how WCAG 3 and COGA can integrate better.

Lisa: AG is currently working on WCAG 3 draft; COGA is drafting new version of Making Content Usable.

<lisa> next item

<lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021 see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract

Lisa: Making Content Usable update is largely about restructuring

Rain: COGA completed card sorts and discussions with users, such as community group, designers, engineers, educational and advocacy professionals to understand how people use Making Content Usable.

Rain: Sharing restructured draft that she will link in the Google Doc in the future. Separated into 1) Understand the User, 2) Design and Build, and 3) How to Use This Document

Rain: How to Use This Document section broken down by the type of user. Each section provides a pathway with steps that directly link into the document.

Rain: Plan to also utilize tags within the patterns themselves.

Rain: Design and Build section would utilize an Easy Read layout with expanding sections.

Lisa: Organized patterns into 5 new categories/buckets; each broken into subcategories. [Titles not finalized] 1) Logical Design (visual design/language), 2) Clear Interactions, 3) Supportive Functionality, 4) Understandable Content, and 5) Backup Help

Rain: Each section also has information on who typically manages these patterns, when these things are typically done, and which phrase can break this?

<lisa> See [18:03] * Zakim ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/13mqcr4pNlhg-9jQ8gDX1b3KFFUCCq2xHe5Sq1sPeDFY/edit#heading=h.scqltz3rntje --

<lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021 see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract

<lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-purpose-of-your-page-clear-pattern

<lisa> next item

Rachael: Current status of WCAG 3

<Rachael> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag-3.0/#aid-navigation

<Rachael> List of outcomes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fw0-q4_iZPZ44_PmvUbJBH8CtQtxwXEXlJ3jac1T5JY/edit#gid=0

Rachael: Reviewed and discussed WCAG 2. Yielded 211 draft outcomes. Currently doing a card sort to organize into the next phase.

<Rachael> Writing testable outcomes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sugAtqie_x1XqHDZo1Im7ftDNllWeRV_ty4PULeoTV0/edit?pli=1#heading=h.q6kvhdps0qv4

Rachael: Next step to take a few outcomes to take through a full write up using Writing Testable WCAG 3 Outcomes

<Rachael> Formating outcomes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uNJ2riUQjP1FOei5HJvZmIlIXbYYQZaTQJ01hb4zFtk/edit#heading=h.p0vw6nnp7d6p

Rachael: AG currently discussing the format for outcomes for WCAG 3.

Rachael: Will share new COGA categories with chairs.

<lisa> next item

Rachael: Do not suggest changing what COGA is doing to match WCAG 3. Continue working and WCAG 3 can learn from COGA.

<lisa> next item

Lisa: Should COGA add testing section at the pattern level, for example?

Kevin: Aligning things like testing may be difficult because WCAG 3 is too early in the process. That's something to monitor as AG moves forward.

Kevin: Some of COGA's material likely fits very well into WCAG 3; e.g., Content Usable may inform the groupings and language of WCAG 3

<Rachael> +1 to COGA focusing on guidance over testing

Lisa: How can we possibly use the differential? For example, binary tests in WCAG 3, guidance in Content Usable. Would not want to limit either group based on alignment

Rachael: Tests will likely be in WCAG 3, guidance as its own standalone document in Content Usable is a good idea

Kevin: Broader conversation right now about how all of WAI's resources fit together.

Lisa: COGA has paid a lot of attention to user testing, specifically, especially with people with cognitive disabilities. We have also had many conversations about process as important, in addition to any specific checklist of outcomes.

<lisa> test https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RUiKsY_WUaFJFvdR6ezFJ8Jx35JkHssy

<Jennie> ack -

Jennie: Something that came out of testing subgroup was that there is an information architecture for testing that overlaps with WAI's work generally, AG, and COGA. There is a difference in the approach and hierarchy of importance between AG and COGA's attention to testing. Should COGA be acting as consultant?

<julierawe> +1 to Jennie's comments

<lisa> next item

<julierawe> I'm in a noisy airport so mainly just listening in today :)

Lisa: Concerns in past from AG that people may read COGA documents and assume that they are following WCAG. Has influenced structure, language, etc. of COGA documents.

Lisa: Is this still the approach we should be taking? Or should we be using the same language across all docs?

<lisa> take up item 7

Rachael: Good to maintain separate terminology for now until we do the work to integrate these documents.

Lisa: Should we continue to avoid certain terminology then? Or to use what feels most appropriate and then align or diverge later?

Kevin: There are probably certain terms to avoid that are part of the standards (e.g. "success criteria"). This seems related to also making sure that documents connect readers to other resources (for example, Content Usable referring readers to WCAG).

Kevin: Also thinking about how to present requirements, process, user stories, etc.

<lisa> next item

Rachael: Suggest continue to avoid terms of concern, especially since COGA already has a control vocabulary. Can review and update

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya

Lisa: Aiming for editor's draft by April, working draft by August, wide review draft of Content Usable v. 2 by end of 2024, publish by March 2025.

<Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_3_Timeline

Rachael: Expect 4-6 year timeframe. If COGA pubs overlap with WCAG modules being published, need to discuss integration.

Lisa: COGA may need to update/republish once WCAG publishes structure and explainer in 2025.

<lisa> close item 6

Rachael: Encourage COGA to keep going and to iterate with AG as WCAG 3 materials come out.

<lisa> close item 6

<kevin> +1

<Rachael> September

<Rachael> TPAC session

Kevin: Agree that TPAC is a good time to review; encourage to keep Kevin involved to ensure that it will work in TR and\/or WAI space.

<JustineP> Current plans make sense to me

Rain: Goal is to have designs in feedback document by end of this week, so designs can be shared at Feb 5 meeting. Then protoyping and testing.

<Jennie> *It is great work, Rain and group! Love the way this is looking.

<lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups

Justine: can structure subgroup meetings be shared?

<lisa> (has the scedule

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).


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Maybe present: Justine, Rachael

All speakers: Jennie, Justine, Kevin, Lisa, Rachael, Rain

Active on IRC: abbey, Becca_Monteleone, Eric_hind, Jennie, JMcSorley, julierawe, JustineP, kevin, kirkwood, lisa, Rachael, Rain