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13:15:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/29-coga-irc
13:15:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:15:30 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:15:35 <lisa> scribe: Becca
13:17:11 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
13:17:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/29-coga-minutes.html lisa
13:19:39 <lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021  see   https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract
13:20:41 <lisa> Regrets+ tiffany
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14:05:36 <lisa> agenda?
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15:35:57 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:35:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/29-coga-minutes.html lisa
15:36:08 <lisa> שעקמגש?
15:36:19 <lisa> agenda?
15:36:38 <lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021  see   https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract
15:36:56 <lisa> zakim, start meeting
15:36:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:36:58 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:37:11 <lisa> scribe+ Becca
15:37:50 <lisa> regrets+ David Swallow, Tiffany
15:42:18 <lisa> Q?
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15:59:37 <Becca_Monteleone> scribe+ Becca_Monteleone
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16:00:27 <Jennie> present+
16:00:38 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
16:00:58 <lisa> next item
16:01:08 <kevin> present+
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16:01:57 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: goal of meeting to discuss how WCAG 3 and COGA can integrate better.
16:02:03 <JustineP> present+
16:02:03 <Rain> present+
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16:02:38 <JMcSorley> present+ Jan
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16:03:25 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: AG is currently working on WCAG 3 draft; COGA is drafting new version of Making Content Usable.
16:03:44 <lisa> next item
16:03:51 <Eric_hind> present+
16:04:09 <lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021  see   https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract
16:04:11 <kirkwood> present+
16:04:47 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Making Content Usable update is largely about restructuring
16:05:47 <abbey> present+
16:06:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: COGA completed card sorts and discussions with users, such as community group, designers, engineers, educational and advocacy professionals to understand how people use Making Content Usable.
16:07:20 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Sharing restructured draft that she will link in the Google Doc in the future. Separated into 1) Understand the User, 2) Design and Build, and 3) How to Use This Document
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16:07:54 <julierawe> present+
16:08:46 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: How to Use This Document section broken down by the type of user. Each section provides a pathway with steps that directly link into the document.
16:09:02 <lisa> present+
16:09:12 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Plan to also utilize tags within the patterns themselves.
16:10:15 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Design and Build section would utilize an Easy Read layout with expanding sections.
16:12:20 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Organized patterns into 5 new categories/buckets; each broken into subcategories. [Titles not finalized] 1) Logical Design (visual design/language), 2) Clear Interactions, 3) Supportive Functionality, 4) Understandable Content, and 5) Backup Help
16:13:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Each section also has information on who typically manages these patterns, when these things are typically done, and which phrase can break this?
16:13:24 <lisa>  See [18:03] * Zakim ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/13mqcr4pNlhg-9jQ8gDX1b3KFFUCCq2xHe5Sq1sPeDFY/edit#heading=h.scqltz3rntje --
16:14:13 <lisa> original : Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities W3C Working Group Note 29 April 2021  see   https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#abstract
16:14:30 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-purpose-of-your-page-clear-pattern
16:15:24 <lisa> next item
16:15:59 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Current status of WCAG 3
16:16:00 <lisa> Q?
16:16:10 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag-3.0/#aid-navigation
16:16:50 <Rachael> List of outcomes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fw0-q4_iZPZ44_PmvUbJBH8CtQtxwXEXlJ3jac1T5JY/edit#gid=0
16:17:51 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Reviewed and discussed WCAG 2. Yielded 211 draft outcomes. Currently doing a card sort to organize into the next phase.
16:18:12 <Rachael> Writing testable outcomes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sugAtqie_x1XqHDZo1Im7ftDNllWeRV_ty4PULeoTV0/edit?pli=1#heading=h.q6kvhdps0qv4
16:18:37 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Next step to take a few outcomes to take through a full write up using Writing Testable WCAG 3 Outcomes
16:18:53 <Rachael> Formating outcomes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uNJ2riUQjP1FOei5HJvZmIlIXbYYQZaTQJ01hb4zFtk/edit#heading=h.p0vw6nnp7d6p
16:19:11 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: AG currently discussing the format for outcomes for WCAG 3.
16:20:05 <lisa> Q?
16:20:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Will share new COGA categories with chairs.
16:20:09 <lisa> next item
16:22:02 <Rachael> q+
16:22:14 <lisa> ack next
16:23:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Do not suggest changing what COGA is doing to match WCAG 3. Continue working and WCAG 3 can learn from COGA.
16:23:15 <lisa> Q?
16:23:47 <lisa> next item
16:24:30 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Should COGA add testing section at the pattern level, for example?
16:24:42 <kevin> q+
16:25:04 <lisa> ack next
16:26:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: Aligning things like testing may be difficult because WCAG 3 is too early in the process. That's something to monitor as AG moves forward.
16:27:16 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: Some of COGA's material likely fits very well into WCAG 3; e.g., Content Usable may inform the groupings and language of WCAG 3
16:28:24 <Rachael> +1 to COGA focusing on guidance over testing
16:28:50 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: How can we possibly use the differential? For example, binary tests in WCAG 3, guidance in Content Usable. Would not want to limit either group based on alignment
16:29:01 <Rachael> q+
16:29:07 <lisa> Q?
16:29:12 <kevin> q+
16:29:36 <lisa> ack next
16:29:39 <lisa> ack next
16:29:40 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Tests will likely be in WCAG 3, guidance as its own standalone document in Content Usable is a good idea
16:30:52 <lisa> Q+
16:31:04 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: Broader conversation right now about how all of WAI's resources fit together.
16:31:04 <lisa> ack next
16:32:50 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: COGA has paid a lot of attention to user testing, specifically, especially with people with cognitive disabilities. We have also had many conversations about process as important, in addition to any specific checklist of outcomes.
16:32:55 <Jennie> q+ regard testing - consulting role
16:33:14 <Jennie> q+
16:33:16 <lisa> test https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RUiKsY_WUaFJFvdR6ezFJ8Jx35JkHssy
16:33:19 <Jennie> ack regard
16:33:21 <Jennie> ack testing
16:33:24 <Jennie> ack -
16:33:27 <lisa> ack next
16:33:38 <Jennie> ack role
16:35:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Something that came out of testing subgroup was that there is an information architecture for testing that overlaps with WAI's work generally, AG, and COGA. There is a difference in the approach and hierarchy of importance between AG and COGA's attention to testing. Should COGA be acting as consultant?
16:35:51 <julierawe> +1 to Jennie's comments
16:36:08 <lisa> ack next
16:36:28 <lisa> next item
16:36:43 <julierawe> I'm in a noisy airport so mainly just listening in today :)
16:38:48 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Concerns in past from AG that people may read COGA documents and assume that they are following WCAG. Has influenced structure, language, etc. of COGA documents.
16:39:26 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Is this still the approach we should be taking? Or should we be using the same language across all docs?
16:39:38 <Rachael> q+
16:39:41 <lisa> take up item 7
16:39:47 <lisa> ack next
16:40:02 <kevin> q+
16:40:36 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Good to maintain separate terminology for now until we do the work to integrate these documents.
16:41:24 <Rachael> q+
16:41:32 <lisa> ack next
16:41:37 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Should we continue to avoid certain terminology then? Or to use what feels most appropriate and then align or diverge later?
16:44:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: There are probably certain terms to avoid that are part of the standards (e.g. "success criteria"). This seems related to also making sure that documents connect readers to other resources (for example, Content Usable referring readers to WCAG).
16:44:42 <lisa> ack next
16:45:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: Also thinking about how to present requirements, process, user stories, etc.
16:45:35 <lisa> next item
16:45:49 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Suggest continue to avoid terms of concern, especially since COGA already has a control vocabulary. Can review and update
16:45:55 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
16:47:03 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Aiming for editor's draft by April, working draft by August, wide review draft of Content Usable v. 2 by end of 2024, publish by March 2025.
16:47:12 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_3_Timeline
16:48:41 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Expect 4-6 year timeframe. If COGA pubs overlap with WCAG modules being published, need to discuss integration.
16:50:54 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: COGA may need to update/republish once WCAG publishes structure and explainer in 2025.
16:51:24 <lisa> Agenda?
16:51:26 <Rachael> q+
16:51:57 <lisa> close item 6
16:52:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Rachael: Encourage COGA to keep going and to iterate with AG as WCAG 3 materials come out.
16:52:23 <lisa> ack next
16:52:30 <lisa> close item 6
16:52:38 <kevin> +1
16:52:49 <kevin> q+
16:52:53 <Rachael> September
16:52:59 <Rachael> TPAC session
16:53:31 <lisa> ack next
16:54:53 <Becca_Monteleone> Kevin: Agree that TPAC is a good time to review; encourage to keep Kevin involved to ensure that it will work in TR space.
16:55:23 <kevin> s/in TR space/in TR and\/or WAI space/
16:55:45 <JustineP> Current plans make sense to me
16:57:39 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Goal is to have designs in feedback document by end of this week, so designs can be shared at Feb 5 meeting. Then protoyping and testing.
16:57:48 <Jennie> *It is great work, Rain and group! Love the way this is looking.
16:59:52 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups
16:59:55 <Becca_Monteleone> Justine: can structure subgroup meetings be shared?
16:59:58 <lisa> (has the scedule
17:00:23 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:00:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/29-coga-minutes.html lisa
17:00:37 <julierawe> Thanks everyone!
17:01:13 <lisa> Q?
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