W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

01 June 2023

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
xfq__

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

Agenda Review

addison: any agenda items people would like to add?

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

addison: CSS issues?

xfq: no progress

addison: ACTION-1257, this is close but not there yet

<addison> action-1272?

close ACTION-1272

<trackbot> action-1272 Bert Bos to Look at view transitions (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8230) -- due 2023-06-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1272.

<addison> close action-1272

<trackbot> Closed action-1272.

Info Share

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: no incoming requests, no in review

TPAC, inclusion, etc.

<addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2023May/0007.html

addison: Inclusion Fund for TPAC
… don't know if who would like to apply to this

Closing IMSC-HRM i18n review tracker issues

addison: any questions about that?

David: @@

addison: I hope to see you there
… it will be hybrid

TPAC 2023

<addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2023May/0006.html

atsushi: I have summarised the issues in the email
… there are 4 needs-resolution issues

<addison> i18n-activity#1456?

addison: for three of them they have fixed the issue and we have replied

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1456?

<ghurlbot> Issue 1456 'block' property may not be complete or the correct choice (aphillips) close?, needs-resolution, s:imsc-hrm, t:typ_misc

<addison> w3c/imsc-hrm#38?

<ghurlbot> Issue 38 [closed] 'block' property may not be complete or the correct choice (aphillips) for review, i18n-needs-resolution

addison: ^ I don't think there's any perfect thing here, but I don't see this being a stopper for them
… any objections?

xfq__: I have looked at them and don't have any objections

Registration information time zone handling

addison: let's close them

<addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1523

w3c/i18n-activity#1523

Changes

addison: I think they've done it
… any reason for us not to close?

close css-view-transition issue

Bert: there are also logical width and height now
… in that sense the writing mode does influence images

<addison> w3c/csswg-drafts#8230

Bert: I think we can close the issue

addison: it's a tracker issue

Bert: but they still want us to give a reply

addison: do they explain this well enough in the spec so that people reading the spec will understand?

Bert: the explanation in the issue is maybe enough
… they mention inline size and block size
… in the spec the explanation is less than the issue, but I'm OK

character styling

addison: let's talk about character styling
… fantasai had some comments

[addison shares his screen]

addison: the first objection was that we make the character bigger and it looked weird
… the second thing was how to get the hover working
… I don't think the hover thing is that useful
… because your cursor is over the character
… when the character is bigger

r12a: it also rearranges the things

addison: your cursor is over the top of the thing
… I thought about hovering the name and make the character bigger
… if we wanted to emphasize the character in some other ways, we could use colour or some other ways

r12a: the letter was big enough, but not big enough to increase the line's height
… but the Unicode name, I made it smaller
… in the hover approach, we're losing everything
… the character is smaller
… the names are getting bigger

addison: I can make the Unicode name characters smaller
… I agree with you now the big brown thing is taking up the whole space

r12a: I went through that phase years ago
… that's why I came up with this approach

addison: we can get rid of hover and inline-block

r12a: setting the font size to something is needed in addition to other styling

[Discuss the details of the style]

addison: should we say your mileage may vary and you should experiment with the font size?
… most of the time people are using ASCII characters
… is that a reasonable approach?

r12a: I think so, yes

addison: the other thing is xfq__ raised a PR this morning

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/104/files

addison: based on the discussion we had in some other issue
… about combining characters
… my concern was not that this is the wrong thing to do
… but it's asking a lot from people who do this
… the second part is are we chasing the wrong thing altogether? should we be looking at automating image generation?

r12a: U+25CC DOTTED CIRCLE doesn't work for some cases
… we should use images maybe
… the way to automate it simply is to point to the image I have
… but that's probably not the thing we should do

addison: if I'm an author I don't want to retrieve it from r12a's place and add it to echidna's manifest etc. every time
… we should make respec/bikeshed generate the correct result

<r12a> <span class="ch">1234</span>

r12a: that's what I put in my document ^

<r12a> <span class="ch">1234 1235</span>

r12a: if I want two characters, it's that ^
… it would be cool if respec could generate markup from that

<r12a> <span class="ch ig=mg">1234 1235</span>

<r12a> <span class="ch img">1234 1235</span>

<r12a> <span class="ch svg">1234 1235</span>

<r12a> <span class="hx svg">1234 1235</span>

r12a: with the classic ch class you put the actual character
… with hx you put the code point

<r12a> <span class="ch svg">ሴ</span>

addison: that's much simpler than our html

r12a: the image has to live in the directory of your specification

<xfq> we can use things like data:image/png;base64

Bert: in TPAC we have blue sections and white sections
… inline svg makes it much nicer

addison: is your svg true vector art or does it contain raster images?

r12a: they're true svg images

<r12a> https://r12a.github.io/scripts/laoo/lo.html?showIndex#index_other

r12a: those are images but they're 200 px by 200 px
… there's room for them to grow as well
… Unicode spec may change and it may be possible to get it from Unicode

addison: it would be better if we get it from them

ACTION: addison: ask unicode about making reference glyphs generally available for download e.g. for w3c specs

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1273 - Ask unicode about making reference glyphs generally available for download e.g. for w3c specs [on Addison Phillips - due 2023-06-08].

addison: do we still want to work on this or do we want to skip this and work on the style thing?
… I suspect we'll still need the styles

r12a: yes
… fantasai's comment about whether whether we should put the space between the character and the Unicode name
… if it's auto-generated, we don't need to be worried

addison: I'll fix the style and let you have a look at it
… should I make the brown stuff smaller?
… I will make the changes and send you an email
… anything else on that?

AOB?

addison: anything else for this week?

Summary of action items

  1. addison: ask unicode about making reference glyphs generally available for download e.g. for w3c specs
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/becuae/because/

Succeeded: s/red/white/

Maybe present: r12a, xfq, xfq__

All speakers: addison, atsushi, Bert, David, r12a, xfq, xfq__

Active on IRC: addison, r12a, xfq__