13:42:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:42:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-irc
13:42:47 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:42:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:42:51 <addison> agendabot, find agenda
13:42:51 <agendabot> addison, OK. This may take a minute...
13:42:52 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bcffcb42-2fb9-4b0c-a749-a7c5c2cf5813/20230601T150000
13:42:52 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:42:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:42:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:42:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:42:53 <trackbot> Date: 01 June 2023
13:42:54 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:42:56 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:42:58 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:43:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Closing IMSC-HRM i18n review tracker issues
13:43:03 <agendabot> agenda+ TPAC, inclusion, etc.
13:43:06 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:43:08 <addison> agenda+ Registration information time zone handling
13:43:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:43:33 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:51:00 <addison> present+ Addison
13:51:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:52:25 <xfq_> xfq_ has joined #i18n
13:54:49 <xfq__> xfq__ has joined #i18n
13:58:25 <addison> agenda+ close css-view-transition issue
13:58:36 <addison> agenda+ Fuqiao, Atsushi
13:58:45 <addison> agenda- 11
13:58:52 <David> David has joined #I18n
13:58:55 <addison> present+ Fuqiao, Atsushi
13:59:04 <addison> agenda?
14:00:14 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:01:00 <addison> present+ David, JcK
14:01:53 <addison> present+ Bert
14:02:10 <addison> present+ Richard
14:02:43 <xfq__> scribe: xfq__
14:02:45 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:02:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:02:47 <addison> agenda?
14:03:26 <xfq__> addison: any agenda items people would like to add?
14:03:32 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:03:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:40 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:05:33 <xfq__> addison: CSS issues?
14:05:37 <xfq__> xfq: no progress
14:05:56 <addison> agenda+ character styling
14:05:58 <xfq__> addison: ACTION-1257, this is close but not there yet
14:06:53 <addison> action-1272?
14:06:53 <xfq__> close ACTION-1272
14:06:53 <trackbot> action-1272 -- Bert Bos to Look at view transitions (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8230) -- due 2023-06-01 -- OPEN
14:06:53 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1272
14:06:54 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1272.
14:06:55 <addison> close action-1272
14:06:56 <trackbot> Closed action-1272.
14:07:04 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:07:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:43 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:07:43 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:07:50 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:08:18 <xfq__> addison: no incoming requests, no in review
14:08:33 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:08:33 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- TPAC, inclusion, etc. -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:08:43 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2023May/0007.html
14:09:16 <xfq__> addison: Inclusion Fund for TPAC
14:09:27 <xfq__> ... don't know if who would like to apply to this
14:09:41 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:09:41 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Closing IMSC-HRM i18n review tracker issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:09:47 <xfq__> ... any questions about that?
14:10:40 <xfq__> David: @@
14:10:45 <xfq__> addison: I hope to see you there
14:10:53 <xfq__> ... it will be hybrid
14:11:06 <xfq__> TPAC 2023 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/
14:11:22 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2023May/0006.html
14:11:53 <xfq__> atsushi: I have summarised the issues in the email
14:12:10 <xfq__> ... there are 4 needs-resolution issues
14:12:36 <addison> i18n-activity#1456?
14:12:42 <xfq__> addison: for three of them they have fixed the issue and we have replied
14:12:47 <addison> w3c/i18n-activity#1456?
14:12:47 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1456 -> Issue 1456 'block' property may not be complete or the correct choice (aphillips) close?, needs-resolution, s:imsc-hrm, t:typ_misc
14:13:34 <addison> w3c/imsc-hrm#38?
14:13:34 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/imsc-hrm/issues/38 -> Issue 38 [closed] 'block' property may not be complete or the correct choice (aphillips) for review, i18n-needs-resolution
14:13:36 <xfq__> ... ^ I don't think there's any perfect thing here, but I don't see this being a stopper for them
14:14:02 <xfq__> ... any objections?
14:14:07 <addison> agenda?
14:14:12 <Najib> Najib has joined #i18n
14:14:15 <xfq__> xfq__: I have looked at them and don't have any objections
14:14:22 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:14:22 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Registration information time zone handling -- taken up [from addison]
14:14:24 <xfq__> addison: let's close them
14:14:46 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1523
14:14:47 <xfq__> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1523
14:15:56 <xfq__> Changes -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/389/files
14:17:08 <xfq__> addison: I think they've done it
14:17:17 <xfq__> ... any reason for us not to close?
14:17:29 <xfq__> rrsagent, make log public
14:17:31 <xfq__> rrsagent, make minutes
14:17:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-minutes.html xfq__
14:17:39 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:17:39 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- close css-view-transition issue -- taken up [from addison]
14:18:18 <xfq__> Bert: there are also logical width and height now
14:18:38 <xfq__> ... in that sense the writing mode does influence images
14:18:45 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8230
14:18:46 <xfq__> ... I think we can close the issue
14:19:27 <xfq__> addison: it's a tracker issue
14:19:38 <xfq__> Bert: but they still want us to give a reply
14:20:22 <xfq__> addison: do they explain this well enough in the spec so that people reading the spec will understand?
14:20:40 <xfq__> Bert: the explanation in the issue is maybe enough
14:20:47 <xfq__> ... they mention inline size and block size
14:21:17 <xfq__> ... in the spec the explanation is less than the issue, but I'm OK
14:21:44 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 12
14:21:44 <Zakim> agendum 12 -- character styling -- taken up [from addison]
14:21:56 <xfq__> addison: let's talk about character styling
14:22:07 <xfq__> ... fantasai had some comments
14:22:20 <xfq__> [addison shares his screen]
14:22:48 <xfq__> addison: the first objection was that we make the character bigger and it looked weird
14:23:00 <xfq__> ... the second thing was how to get the hover working
14:23:12 <xfq__> ... I don't think the hover thing is that useful
14:23:23 <xfq__> ... becuae your cursor is over the character
14:23:30 <xfq__> ... when the character is bigger
14:23:36 <xfq__> s/becuae/because/
14:23:45 <xfq__> r12a: it also rearranges the things
14:24:05 <xfq__> addison: your cursor is over the top of the thing
14:24:47 <xfq__> ... I thought about hovering the name and make the character bigger
14:25:38 <xfq__> ... if we wanted to emphasize the character in some other ways, we could use colour or some other ways
14:26:20 <xfq__> r12a: the letter was big enough, but not big enough to increase the line's height
14:26:29 <xfq__> ... but the Unicode name, I made it smaller
14:27:06 <xfq__> ... in the hover approach, we're losing everything
14:27:10 <xfq__> ... the character is smaller
14:27:19 <xfq__> ... the names are getting bigger
14:27:34 <xfq__> addison: I can make the Unicode name characters smaller
14:27:54 <xfq__> ... I agree with you now the big brown thing is taking up the whole space
14:28:06 <xfq__> r12a: I went through that phase years ago
14:28:15 <xfq__> ... that's why I came up with this approach
14:29:44 <xfq__> addison: we can get rid of hover and inline-block
14:30:43 <xfq__> r12a: setting the font size to something is needed in addition to other styling
14:31:54 <xfq__> [Discuss the details of the style]
14:32:47 <xfq__> addison: should we say your mileage may vary and you should experiment with the font size?
14:33:01 <xfq__> ... most of the time people are using ASCII characters
14:33:10 <xfq__> ... is that a reasonable approach?
14:33:13 <xfq__> r12a: I think so, yes
14:33:33 <xfq__> addison: the other thing is xfq__ raised a PR this morning
14:33:42 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/104/files
14:33:57 <xfq__> ... based on the discussion we had in some other issue
14:34:06 <xfq__> ... about combining characters
14:34:17 <xfq__> ... my concern was not that this is the wrong thing to do
14:34:40 <xfq__> ... but it's asking a lot from people who do this
14:35:20 <xfq__> ... the second part is are we chasing the wrong thing altogether? should we be looking at automating image generation?
14:35:38 <xfq__> r12a: U+25CC DOTTED CIRCLE doesn't work for some cases
14:36:02 <xfq__> ... we should use images maybe
14:36:26 <xfq__> ... the way to automate it simply is to point to the image I have
14:36:38 <xfq__> ... but that's probably not the thing we should do
14:37:25 <xfq__> addison: if I'm an author I don't want to retrieve it from r12a's place and add it to echidna's manifest etc. every time
14:37:57 <xfq__> ... we should make respec/bikeshed generate the correct result
14:38:21 <r12a> <span class="ch">1234</span>
14:38:34 <xfq__> r12a: that's what I put in my document ^
14:38:35 <r12a> <span class="ch">1234 1235</span>
14:38:44 <xfq__> ... if I want two characters, it's that ^
14:39:00 <xfq__> ... it would be cool if respec could generate markup from that
14:39:07 <r12a> <span class="ch ig=mg">1234 1235</span>
14:39:15 <r12a> <span class="ch img">1234 1235</span>
14:39:23 <r12a> <span class="ch svg">1234 1235</span>
14:39:53 <r12a> <span class="hx svg">1234 1235</span>
14:40:03 <xfq__> ... with the classic ch class you put the actual character
14:40:11 <xfq__> ... with hx you put the code point
14:40:21 <r12a> <span class="ch svg">ሴ</span>
14:40:27 <xfq__> addison: that's much simpler than our html
14:41:05 <xfq__> r12a: the image has to live in the directory of your specification
14:43:06 <xfq__> <xfq> we can use things like data:image/png;base64
14:43:58 <xfq__> Bert: in TPAC we have blue sections and red sections
14:44:06 <xfq__> ... inline svg makes it much nicer
14:44:32 <xfq__> addison: is your svg true vector art or does it contain raster images?
14:44:37 <Bert> s/red/white/
14:44:39 <xfq__> r12a: they're true svg images
14:44:50 <r12a> https://r12a.github.io/scripts/laoo/lo.html?showIndex#index_other
14:45:25 <xfq__> r12a: those are images but they're 200 px by 200 px
14:45:37 <xfq__> ... there's room for them to grow as well
14:47:12 <xfq__> ... Unicode spec may change and it may be possible to get it from Unicode
14:48:30 <xfq__> addison: it would be better if we get it from them
14:49:19 <addison> action: addison: ask unicode about making reference glyphs generally available for download e.g. for w3c specs
14:49:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1273 - Ask unicode about making reference glyphs generally available for download e.g. for w3c specs [on Addison Phillips - due 2023-06-08].
14:50:09 <xfq__> addison: do we still want to work on this or do we want to skip this and work on the style thing?
14:50:23 <xfq__> ... I suspect we'll still need the styles
14:50:26 <xfq__> r12a: yes
14:51:06 <xfq__> ... fantasai's comment about whether whether we should put the space between the character and the Unicode name
14:51:22 <xfq__> ... if it's auto-generated, we don't need to be worried
14:51:39 <xfq__> addison: I'll fix the style and let you have a look at it
14:51:47 <xfq__> ... should I make the brown stuff smaller?
14:52:28 <xfq__> ... I will make the changes and send you an email
14:52:43 <xfq__> ... anything else on that?
14:52:45 <addison> agenda?
14:53:02 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:53:02 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:53:24 <xfq__> addison: anything else for this week?
14:53:30 <xfq__> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-minutes.html xfq__
15:03:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/01-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:18:36 <r12a> so, Fuqiao, when i've installed the update to the script you'll see 23 gap reports in the clreq gap doc, rather than the current 8