Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

27 October 2022


kirkwood, Lisa, Poornima, Rain, ShawnT
Jenny, Julie
lisa, Rain

Meeting minutes

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<Lisa> no qurom

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Lisa: not sure that we have quorum, determining if we are continuing to review collaborative tools document

Rachael: difficult to work on if we don't have it ported over to the document. yet

Lisa: APA suggested we make a google doc with a copy of their specifications and then use suggest mode to add to and comment on it
… so that is the next step
… Rachael had offered to move the document, is that doable?

Rachael: yes, but not before this meeting is finished

<Lisa> we have quourm

Lisa: update on who we have on the call, now we do have quorum and can continue

task requests and actions <https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#>

Lisa: mental health summary, had an Indian time friendly meeting and will be having another

<Lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups

Lisa: there is another special meeting on Nov. 7 so if anyone wants it changed so that they can attend, let Lisa or Rashmi know
… Jan has sent in a few more papers to review, and are way over the KPI and have 2 things that are new patterns that are very interesting
… related to impulse control and decision making
… a lot of suggested changes for existing patterns as well
… really shows the huge overlap between cognitive and mental health

rain: kiki is working on the quant study, and we reviewed it and are looking for themes

2 mockups and great feedback

next step mockups and adding stucture to the study

concern that they are two big to see

might need to make it a real document

before we evaluate

but a lot going on at work

should have progress by the 17th

Lisa: when do you think we are going to have stable structure suggestions for clear language and access to help?

Rachael: have broken out the conformance models, worked together to break them out, evaluate them, and put them back together in mays that work
… will then identify the first two to explore over the next 3-4 weeks
… then we will have 1-2 models by january timeframe to have clear language see how they can fit into them

Lisa: research plan, have a couple of agenda items

draft plan https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#

Lisa: two documents that may be useful that we'd like people to review
… draft plan, also thinking about how research is done within w3c, which is by members and the results get vetted


Lisa: also have a survey on the research papers and need TF members to share that survey out (link above)
… surprising how many people want it all updated and updated as a w3c note
… we cannot do that amount of work, and currently only a sample size of 6
… but really do need to assimilate it better
… repeating ask to have people send out the survey
… everyone please disseminate it at least one place

Rachael: is it okay if we fill it out if we are using it outside of W3C?

Lisa: yes, if using it in your organization

<kirkwood> I definitely feel it should, agreed

thanks John

Rain: images subgroup meeting after Nov. 4 should have an image to show for coga tf review

put examples here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeSP612Z9Zf7Srojdbq0te615CE0g5wB6puCBVLXziw/edit#

Lisa: in terms of requests from other groups
… have collaborative tools request, need the document in order to move forward and so will do this by email
… spoke with Janina about verifiable credentials
… we've submitted our feedback to EO


From Julie: "EO update: I submitted all the GitHub issues in time to meet EO's deadline last Friday. I checked GitHub this morning and so far EO have sent any follow-up questions."

<kirkwood> Julie’s EO update: EO update: I submitted all the GitHub issues in time to meet EO's deadline last Friday. I checked GitHub this morning and so far EO have sent any follow-up questions.

<kirkwood> no objection

Lisa: research process within W3C is that members do this work, and then pass on the results to the task forces/working groups
… this matches what Kiki and Rain proposed to have Google do for the structure qualitative research

any objection to google doing the qualitative study

Rachael: confirming that if Google does this we will have an IRB of some sort?

Kiki: it's different, goes through legal, but not an academic IRB

Rachael: do you have checks on human safety?

Kiki: yes

Rachael: okay

<Rachael> Perfect. Thank you for being willing to take on this reasearch.

any objections

no objections (but we ask shawn

Lisa: thank you to the Google reps for helping with this


Lisa: need to revisit recruiting
… looking to see if researchers are willing to pass on literary reviews and other research work on to us
… may find that most of our topics are covered in other people's work

kirkwood: the Understood folks are definitely good people to connect with for research

Poornima: will go through the document and see what can be done
… Enable India is a possibility

<kirkwood> Think they would at least know who… regarding the org Understood.

<kirkwood> What is the specific ask in one sentence?

kirkwood: confirming that literary reviews can be submitted

Lisa: yes, absolutely

<kirkwood> Are there any literary reviews you can share with COGA? seems like the ask to me

<kirkwood> John Rochford may be good for this as well

Rain updated on who the researchers are that she's talking with

+1 to John Rochford

<kirkwood> +1

Rachael: maybe if we have a more integrated relationship with research centers we can also create situations where we benefit from student work and they benefit from a more public stage for their work?
… something to pursue in January
… may be useful before January to get a list of organizations and points of contact

Lisa: next step is to speak with Michael Cooper about academic collaborations

<Rachael> update: https://www.w3.org/blog/2022/10/w3c-wai-updates-october-2022/

Research collaborations (structure and research sub groups) See actions at https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.6co50luve41b AND draft of reserch plan at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#

<Rachael> Maybe we could start a google doc of possible organizations that WAI might partner with. Good conversation for the Wednesday WAI call

Google or pther doing interviews on stucture, and sharing the feedback with us . see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#


Lisa: year one is over in March, deadline for meeting our KPIs
… are we going to meet that deadline?
… need to start looking to see what we have to do to meet these KPIs
… Mental health, think we will have literary review and have a draft for new patterns, but not for all the changes
… Community feedback, how is that?

Kiki: have done pieces, are working to get a form together to gather feedback and will use it to reach out to our communities to get feedback on what feels difficult when navigating the web
… should be solidified by next meeting and will go for broader reach
… have put together feedback from the community group itself

Lisa: next step is to find a way to pull all that feedback together so that we can consider it for the next version

Lisa: Research group - have a draft and got the survey out
… need more people to send it out
… have a plan but haven't gone through all the issues or identified which issue papers need updates
… quite a lot to do there still
… stage 2 is after march

Images: working on drafts

Test process: exploratory draft by March will be difficult, will put on agenda for next week

Lisa: inviting Kiki to use our group, as well, for community feedback
… can also ask AG to send it out

<Poornima> * Lisa, I can scribe for Nov 10, can you pls update on the scribe list? I have to drop now for my next meeting.

<kirkwood> ERG’s - Employee Resource Groups may be good within orgs

<Poornima> Thanks everyone and have a great weekend!

Taking a 5 minute break then moving onto subgroup meetings

topic, reserch and stucture subgroups

research and structure subgroups

any objections to google doing the reserch on stucture (asking shawn)

shawn: no objections

Shawn: does not have an objection to Kiki and Rain scheduling study through Google infra

Kiki: Rain and Kiki to discuss and schedule the study

<Lisa> agenda: what do we need to do for the study?

rain: re mock up - we have two (from rain and lisa) i want to fill them in a bit and update them

lisa: actualy cut and paist the doc may be easier

rain: yes

we can have a wirking call

<ShawnT> I'm good with CSS or HTML


<ShawnT> and Github

we also identified the theme in the survey. will update next week

Discussion on themes in responses to survey on Making Content Usable

shawn: very long, but that can be good. to long to just read, people find things findable

Shawn: length was both a negative and a positive, control f was helpful

contol f worked

Shawn: also matches how I feel about it

so it is good that it is all in one document becuse contol f worked

is it plain langn?

Quote that stood out to Shawn: "Greater input from more than the COGA WG (which has pushed out people interested in the issues in the past) and more recognition that cognitive disabilities are broader and more complex than what WCAG has traditionally worked with. This includes acknowledging that all a11y advocates will at times have to decide that something cannot be made 100% cognitively accessible for some users."

JohnK -- the survey and feedback is around Making Content Usable: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/

<kirkwood> oh thought we had a working google doc, w/ comments, all good

kik: persona are reductive , need to be more diferse

<kirkwood> +1 to potentially bridging to community group to assist with rounding out personas

shawn, need to recrute

Rain: would like to see if we can leverage the community group to bring in the richness and diversity

can we have the comments with the themes?

Synthesis of themes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBMTDmJLZ2gHugSENyVrTY-SkgFvnKksL3Nq--A5j7g/edit#heading=h.mvyaovp5guh1

kiki: people liked the long document, people wanted principles, glancables, but were getting blockers. repatetives, some people were there for an introduction to cognative accessibilty but the problems included

content is good but diificalt to find

do our prinicples sean in the doc

some of this we are working on

visualy dence

<kirkwood> An introduction: About this document: structure, how to finding, how to use this document?


personaly (kiki) jargon example include: objectives senrio, user story

FYI I've updated the synthesis link that I provided to include all three of our summaries, and the full feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBMTDmJLZ2gHugSENyVrTY-SkgFvnKksL3Nq--A5j7g/edit#

<ShawnT> We can all here Rain

<ShawnT> hear even

We can hear everyone, but it seems Lisa cannot hear us


kiki: mainly teck

getting feedback is hard

<kirkwood> great feedback, seems a plain language summary (& purpose) should be rounded out a bit would be helpful? and just define jargon? to address feedback (my thoughts)?

more analisis will be done

qualitative study will also help

john. great feedback

rain: we are in the analisis phase

<kirkwood> shows how we need to make understandable, not ez great feedback


Structure KPI - yes, think that we may be able to agree on the new form/plan by end of march

Research KPI - stakeholders, yes, new issue papers and identifying and making them publication ready, possibly at risk

<ShawnT> I can help formatting but not really researching the documents

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).


Found 'Agenda:' not followed by a URL: 'what do we need to do for the study?'.

Maybe present: Images, kik, Kiki, Rachael, shawn