Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

08 September 2022


Becca_Monteleone, Jennie, julierawe, kirkwood, Rachael, Rain, ShawnT
david, shawn, ShawnT
Jennie, Lisa, Rain

Meeting minutes

Review of timelines timeline <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#>

Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#

Lisa: We have had a few regrets

<ShawnT> regrets

* ShawnT - try this: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info


Lisa: There is a link with "Official W3C TPAC 2022 Calendar" to access the schedule
… I will try to stay in the channel throughout

Julie: I can be in the IRC channel too
… I noticed that there is more than 1 IRC channel listed for COGA vs non COGA people

Lisa: I didn't notice that.
… Also, the 1st 2 meeting is joint with AG
… Those are in AG's room

<julierawe> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ba492297-3263-4d02-ab81-edcfd826e4d4

Lisa: I will highlight that in the Google Doc
… So, not our room for the 1st 2 meetings

Julie: Above is link for the meeting

Rachael: Lisa - please add the IRC meeting channel for each one

Lisa: OK

Julie: Can you confirm the start time for the meeting?

Rachael: I confirm it starts at 8:30

Lisa: We have 3 pieces of information
… 1: the Zoom

<Kiki> present

Lisa: 2: for those joining remotely
… and those joining physicall
… 3: then the IRC channel
… We are talking about the meetings next week, called TPAC
… It is in Vancouver
… We are working on the agenda - where to call in, and where to be
… I also want to check that everyone can access this link

<julierawe> Lisa/Rachael, can you confirm the meeting is in Granville and not Burrard?

Lisa: John K and Jennie are joining remotely

<aaronchu> Hello Lisa!

<aaronchu> +present

Rain: I am attending remotely and I can confirm I can access that link

Lisa: Are you a member of AG?

Rain: yes

Lisa: is anyone who is not a member of AG able to get to the conference call page?
… Because we have 2 parent groups, some are members of 1, some the other, some both
… We have meetings with both parent groups
… I want to be sure people can join

Kiki: I don't have sufficient access

Lisa: Thank you Kiki
… I need to make a calendar invite with the information in it and send it to everyone that wants to attend
… Please put your name under virtual if you might need a calendar invite
… I can put the Zoom call information into the calendar invite
… I can't put it in a public space

Lisa: I can't put it on the email list
… I think a calendar invite will work best


Lisa: Add your name into the Attending heading
… This is a direct link
… Adding your email address would be helpful as well
… So try the links, and if you can't access, please send me an email, and try to access the IRC channel

<aaronchu> Hello!

Lisa: I will also send this information out in an email - the full agenda. Is that helpful?


<JustineP> +1

+1 to email

Rachael: Kiki - are you registered for TPAC?

Kiki: no

Rachael: My guess is that she can't get to the page because she is not registered
… For those that are not registered, you are supposed to register
… If there is 1 or 2 meetings you are to attend, then that is different


Lisa: This is the full schedule for the week
… There is a link for registration - I will add that into our document

<Rachael> ...Please use your discretion about attending select sessions if you have not registered.

Lisa: It is important that the right people are on the call
… I don't want to discourage people from attending COGA meetings

<Rachael> +1 to making sure the right people are in the room

John K: Where is the link you are asking us to check?
… The one some people do not have access to

ag page: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag

Lisa: This is a members only page

Lisa: There are also break out sessions

<kirkwood> all good. works thank you

Lisa: Multiple talks - they all seem interesting
… There is free registration for those breakout sessions

Tpac can we all join the meetings?

Julie: The TPAC event page says the meeting is in Bird in the south tower, but the Google doc says Grandville.

Lisa: Granville is the AG room

Julie: The event page says Bird
… (Burrard)

Lisa: Burrard is our room, but for the first meeting, we are going to the AG room
… When we have joint meetings, we pick a meeting for where we will be
… For that 1st meeting, the host room (AG's room) is where we will meet
… I have added the names of the rooms on our Google Doc by meeting, within each day
… So after lunch we move to the COGA room, which is Burrard

Rachael: That is my understanding as well

Lisa: For Tuesday, we have a joint meeting with Adapt in our room (Burrard)
… Our room is room 12 - called Burrard. South Tower, 4th floor
… This is our IRC channel, our call in information

John K: This is good, thanks

Julie: It makes sense now that you have explained it.

John K: Monitoring the IRC channels is a great way to keep up

Lisa: Anyone else still confused
… ?
… Definitely ask if you need help

Rachael: Due to circumstances, Alastair and I are no longer going in person
… Michael Cooper is now the primary contact for AGWG in person

tpac agenda google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#

Lisa: I will add Julie and Michael as contacts to the Google Doc

Lisa: We will also be in the COGA IRC channel

Lisa: 1st meeting on Monday - Functional Needs document
… This is with APA and AG - both of our parent groups
… We have spent a lot of time reviewing categories of functional needs
… We made a table of what they had, and what we wanted to add.
… we will talk them through these categories
… Then there is a break
… The times in the Google Doc are all in Vancouver Time - Pacific Tim
… There is a link that will let you see what your local time is
… The 2nd meeting on Monday: this is discussing test types - the presentation Julie has been working on
… AG is working on Silver, making new types of tests
… We want to see how well they work for COGA
… The history is really important - trying to getting COGA aspects into WCAG
… We are trying to see if the new types of tests can help us fit in more of our tests
… We have many examples that will hopefully help answer the question: what types of tests should be made?
… Next: lunch
… After lunch - we can begin to work on some of the actions from the morning
… Tuesday meeting 1 is Adapt - they used to be called personalization
… They will give us an outline of where they want to go, and how we can work with them
… Then we will focus on the Content Usable update
… That meeting is in the COGA room
… Rain will give an overview on what the Structure group is doing
… Then we will brainstorm on our documents
… The mental health subgroup will be after lunch
… and the implications for next steps
… Any questions?

actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc

Lisa: next item is actions
… but there is another topic
… We need a way to store research but this is in all different places
… We may want to discuss a new place or mechanism for saving research
… Do you prefer to go over action items? Or talk about this other topic?

+1 to going over where we track research

reserch pages

Lisa: do we want to put the effort into making the Google Doc: The COGA Design Guided - Research and more information more thorough?

Rain: I think that would be useful. It would also support the Structure group's work
… The survey is showing people are asking about the research that backs up the information in Content Usable
… I am wondering if it might make sense to do the majority of the tracking in a Spreadsheet - so it is sortable

<kirkwood> +1

Rain: Then we can insert that into a Google Doc. This way people have a choice about how to best to access it

John K: I agree to the suggestion to have it in a spreadsheet
… That would be easier

<aaronchu> +1 to Rain's suggestion

Julie: I agree with Rain and John. I think a benefit: we might have multiple studies for a single pattern
… In a spreadsheet you could create a column for research #1, research #2.
… This way you could prevent having 1 cell with multiple entries

<Github> https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/1 : Table formatting is missing

<Github> https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/2 : References to Research item 41 is misformatted

Julie: Even if we are doing it by the name of the study, it can get really complicated if you are mentioning more than 1 study per cell

Lisa: We have 4 links to WCAG proposals in different forms for Make the Purpose of your Page Clear
… How would we do that in a spreadsheet?

Rain: If we want to be able to sort and filter, we would want them all in individual rows
… Make the Purpose of your Page Clear repeated in each row
… Then we could filter for just Make the Purpose of your Page Clear

Lisa: But then you have 4 rows labeled Make the Purpose of Your Page Clear, but then you also have WCAG
… How is that listed?

Lisa: The only way I can see this working is to have each pattern be its own sheet

Lisa: This would be really complicated

Aaron: I would volunteer to create a sample, and then everyone could try it out, and give feedback

<kirkwood> great!

Lisa: Thank you Aaron

Lisa: Most of the research is in research module and the issue papers
… Do we put that link in each row?

<aaronchu> Jennie, I am happy to sync up and collaborate offline if that works for you.

Lisa: So Aaron are you taking the action item to try to put this into a different format

Aaron: Yes, I am happy to look at this, and get feedback

Julie: I suggest - Aaron: Jennie and Shawn have started a spreadsheet on testing
… It may be a helpful starting point - Shawn has already entered all the patterns
… It may be useful to have 1 spreadsheet
… I don't know if that is too much in 1 spreadsheet, but it may be helpful to have this as a starting point

Spreadsheet Shawn started: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15kHdhq_KaIgbxdNPEA0ceNZ-tMs6aAe4m_vOitEM3HY/edit?usp=sharing

<aaronchu> nice!

Lisa: OK, so you could copy that
… and see how that works

Aaron: That works. I can take a look, then synch up with Shawn and Jennie offline

Lisa: great. Anything else for the extra 2 minutes?

jennie: update on gaudenship

we met yesterday re: the gaudenship and supported desion making, as a kick off meeting

some sugestions on ways to move forward. Judy had a good apritiation of the need

John: agrees

we need more concrete sugestions that are easy for them to act on

michael is the point person on next steps


legel team are very busy

but would push faster for a person who needs it now

jennie: aregency perhapes around the process documents

*Have to drop for another meeting. Looking forward to chatting more next week!

<Becca_Monteleone> I am not able to join the subgroup meeting today - I will review the powerpoint this afternoon.

<aaronchu> I have to drop. Thanks everyone!

<kirkwood> Jennie, good point about the process document

clear language subgroup: looking at examples for tpac

<ShawnT> there's a lot of dependencies in silver / WCAG 3.0

<ShawnT> Also known as AGWG

overview of silver and ag

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Tve0g7pRufB5iShWwstwrfGdDtbn8YdsHEyN7Coj1vU/edit#slide=id.p

julie: we are close to being able to show this to wcag rachel etc

termonolgy is moving/changing but we will roll with that

looking at some comutational small tests

then we get adaptives - double negitives

we add the word unitentialy incase it is part of key mophology in some dialect somewhere

do we need tests in each language?

or can be percriptive

<kirkwood> +1 concern double negative creates a point that may be a blocker in conversation

<kirkwood> +1 good point, lisa esp with ‘familiar design’

<kirkwood> good point on the perception of pushing it all into a design system

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).


Maybe present: Aaron, John, Julie, Kiki, Lisa