13:29:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
13:29:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-irc
13:29:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:29:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:29:36 <trackbot> Date: 08 September 2022
13:30:02 <Lisa> regrets+  david, shawn
13:30:49 <Lisa> scribe+ Jennie, Lisa, Rain
13:39:54 <Lisa> agenda+ Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
13:40:00 <Lisa> clear agenda
13:40:04 <Lisa> agenda+ Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
13:40:30 <Lisa> agenda+ Tpac can we all join the meetings?
13:41:47 <Lisa> agenda+ actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
13:42:51 <Lisa> Review of timelines timeline <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#>
13:43:45 <Lisa> agenda+ todo items for tpac agenda
13:46:05 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #coga
13:48:37 <Lisa> agenda+ brakout sessions https://ti.to/w3c/tpac-2022-public-breakouts
13:57:01 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
13:58:55 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
13:59:30 <Jennie> Jennie has joined #coga
13:59:41 <Jennie> present+
14:00:44 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
14:00:54 <Rain> present+
14:01:14 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:01:14 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Tpac https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit# -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:01:38 <Jennie> Lisa: We have had a few regrets
14:01:49 <Jamie_Vanderwall> Jamie_Vanderwall has joined #coga
14:01:53 <ShawnT> regrets
14:02:09 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
14:02:12 <julierawe> present+
14:02:35 <Jennie> * ShawnT - try this: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
14:02:35 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
14:02:43 <Rachael> present+
14:03:12 <Jennie> Lisa: There is a link with "Official W3C TPAC 2022 Calendar" to access the schedule
14:03:15 <ShawnT> regrets+
14:03:23 <Jennie> ...I will try to stay in the channel throughout
14:03:40 <Jennie> Julie: I can be in the IRC channel too
14:03:49 <Rachael> q+
14:03:55 <Jennie> ...I noticed that there is more than 1 IRC channel listed for COGA vs non COGA people
14:04:01 <Jennie> Lisa: I didn't notice that.
14:04:13 <Jennie> ...Also, the 1st 2 meeting is joint with AG
14:04:26 <Jennie> ...Those are in AG's room
14:04:36 <julierawe> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ba492297-3263-4d02-ab81-edcfd826e4d4
14:04:36 <Jennie> ...I will highlight that in the Google Doc
14:04:46 <Jennie> ...So, not our room for the 1st 2 meetings
14:04:59 <Jennie> Julie: Above is link for the meeting
14:05:05 <kirkwood> present+
14:05:52 <Jennie> Rachael: Lisa - please add the IRC meeting channel for each one
14:05:54 <Rachael> q-
14:06:00 <Jennie> Lisa: OK
14:06:21 <Jennie> Julie: Can you confirm the start time for the meeting?
14:06:33 <Jennie> Rachael: I confirm it starts at 8:30
14:06:57 <Jennie> Lisa: We have 3 pieces of information
14:07:00 <Jennie> ...1: the Zoom
14:07:00 <Kiki> Kiki has joined #coga
14:07:11 <Kiki> present
14:07:11 <Jennie> ...2: for those joining remotely
14:07:16 <Jennie> ...and those joining physicall
14:07:23 <Jennie> ...3: then the IRC channel
14:07:28 <Rachael> q+
14:07:48 <Rachael> q-
14:08:00 <Jennie> ...We are talking about the meetings next week, called TPAC
14:08:05 <Jennie> ...It is in Vancouver
14:08:18 <Jennie> ...We are working on the agenda - where to call in, and where to be
14:08:30 <Jennie> ...I also want to check that everyone can access this link
14:08:37 <julierawe> Lisa/Rachael, can you confirm the meeting is in Granville and not Burrard?
14:08:50 <aaronchu> aaronchu has joined #coga
14:08:55 <Jennie> ...John K and Jennie are joining remotely
14:09:08 <aaronchu> Hello Lisa!
14:09:10 <aaronchu> +present
14:09:27 <Jennie> Rain: I am attending remotely and I can confirm I can access that link
14:09:32 <Jennie> Lisa: Are you a member of AG?
14:09:34 <Jennie> Rain: yes
14:09:56 <Jennie> Lisa: is anyone who is not a member of AG able to get to the conference call page?
14:10:05 <JustineP> JustineP has joined #coga
14:10:15 <Jennie> ...Because we have 2 parent groups, some are members of 1, some the other, some both
14:10:23 <Jennie> ...We have meetings with both parent groups
14:10:29 <Jennie> ...I want to be sure people can join
14:10:36 <Becca_Monteleone> Becca_Monteleone has joined #COGA
14:10:37 <Jennie> Kiki: I don't have sufficient access
14:10:42 <Jennie> Lisa: Thank you Kiki
14:10:43 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
14:10:52 <Rachael> q+
14:11:01 <Jennie> ...I need to make a calendar invite with the information in it and send it to everyone that wants to attend
14:11:19 <Jennie> ...Please put your name under virtual if you might need a calendar invite
14:11:29 <Jennie> ...I can put the Zoom call information into the calendar invite
14:11:34 <Jennie> ...I can't put it in a public space
14:11:36 <Jennie> q?
14:11:46 <Jennie> Lisa: I can't put it on the email list
14:11:55 <Jennie> ...I think a calendar invite will work best
14:12:23 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#heading=h.s44fw933hpfu
14:12:23 <Jennie> ...Add your name into the Attending heading
14:12:28 <Jennie> ...This is a direct link
14:12:42 <Jennie> ...Adding your email address would be helpful as well
14:13:28 <Jennie> ...So try the links, and if you can't access, please send me an email, and try to access the IRC channel
14:13:41 <aaronchu> Hello!
14:14:17 <kirkwood> present+
14:14:42 <Jennie> Lisa: I will also send this information out in an email - the full agenda. Is that helpful?
14:14:46 <Jennie> +1
14:14:50 <JustineP> +1
14:14:51 <Rain> +1 to email
14:15:07 <Jennie> q?
14:15:10 <julierawe> q+
14:15:16 <Jennie> ack Lisa
14:15:16 <Lisa> ack next
14:15:29 <Jennie> Rachael: Kiki - are you registered for TPAC?
14:15:32 <Jennie> Kiki: no
14:15:44 <Jennie> Rachael: My guess is that she can't get to the page because she is not registered
14:15:52 <Jennie> ...For those that are not registered, you are supposed to register
14:16:10 <Jennie> ...If there is 1 or 2 meetings you are to attend, then that is different
14:16:55 <Jennie> ack Rachael
14:17:02 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/TPAC/#schedule
14:17:09 <Jennie> Lisa: This is the full schedule for the week
14:17:24 <Jennie> ...There is a link for registration - I will add that into our document
14:17:29 <Rachael> ...Please use your discretion about attending select sessions if you have not registered.
14:17:45 <Jennie> Lisa: It is important that the right people are on the call
14:18:35 <Jennie> ...I don't want to discourage people from attending COGA meetings
14:18:42 <Jennie> q?
14:18:53 <Rachael> +1 to making sure the right people are in the room
14:19:28 <Jennie> John K: Where is the link you are asking us to check?
14:19:41 <Jennie> ...The one some people do not have access to
14:19:47 <Lisa> ag page: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag
14:20:08 <Jennie> Lisa: This is a members only page
14:20:17 <Jennie> q?
14:20:31 <Jennie> Lisa: There are also break out sessions
14:20:36 <kirkwood> all good. works thank you
14:20:55 <Jennie> Lisa: Multiple talks - they all seem interesting
14:21:09 <Jennie> ...There is free registration for those breakout sessions
14:21:20 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:21:20 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lisa
14:21:25 <Lisa> ack next
14:21:31 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:21:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Tpac can we all join the meetings? -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:21:59 <Jennie> Julie: The TPAC event page says the meeting is in Bird in the south tower, but the Google doc says Grandville.
14:22:09 <Jennie> Lisa: Granville is the AG room
14:22:17 <Jennie> Julie: The event page says Bird
14:22:28 <Jennie> ...(Burrard)
14:22:44 <Jennie> Lisa: Burrard is our room, but for the first meeting, we are going to the AG room
14:23:01 <Jennie> ...When we have joint meetings, we pick a meeting for where we will be
14:23:22 <Jennie> ...For that 1st meeting, the host room (AG's room) is where we will meet
14:23:59 <Jennie> ...I have added the names of the rooms on our Google Doc by meeting, within each day
14:24:14 <Jennie> ...So after lunch we move to the COGA room, which is Burrard
14:24:21 <Jennie> Rachael: That is my understanding as well
14:24:39 <Jennie> Lisa: For Tuesday, we have a joint meeting with Adapt in our room (Burrard)
14:25:07 <Jennie> ...Our room is room 12 - called Burrard. South Tower, 4th floor
14:25:15 <Jennie> ...This is our IRC channel, our call in information
14:25:30 <Jennie> John K: This is good, thanks
14:25:40 <Jennie> Julie: It makes sense now that you have explained it.
14:26:20 <Jennie> John K: Monitoring the IRC channels is a great way to keep up
14:27:14 <Jennie> Lisa: Anyone else still confused
14:27:21 <Jennie> ...?
14:27:28 <Jennie> ...Definitely ask if you need help
14:27:28 <Lisa> q?
14:27:43 <Jennie> Rachael: Due to circumstances, Alastair and I are no longer going in person
14:27:57 <Jennie> ...Michael Cooper is now the primary contact for AGWG in person
14:28:04 <Lisa> tpac agenda google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PZkjDtPbZHlcFxmmbTA6e-Sp_qU6_9Z8Ux85PINe5QU/edit#
14:28:31 <Jennie> Lisa: I will add Julie and Michael as contacts to the Google Doc
14:29:35 <Jennie> Lisa: We will also be in the COGA IRC channel
14:30:22 <Jennie> Lisa: 1st meeting on Monday - Functional Needs document
14:30:30 <Jennie> ...This is with APA and AG - both of our parent groups
14:30:45 <Jennie> ...We have spent a lot of time reviewing categories of functional needs
14:30:59 <Jennie> ...We made a table of what they had, and what we wanted to add.
14:31:05 <Jennie> ...we will talk them through these categories
14:31:28 <Jennie> ...Then there is a break
14:31:48 <Jennie> ...The times in the Google Doc are all in Vancouver Time - Pacific Tim
14:32:04 <Jennie> ...There is a link that will let you see what your local time is
14:33:02 <Jennie> ...The 2nd meeting on Monday: this is discussing test types - the presentation Julie has been working on
14:33:14 <Jennie> ...AG is working on Silver, making new types of tests
14:33:20 <Jennie> ...We want to see how well they work for COGA
14:33:36 <Jennie> ...The history is really important - trying to getting COGA aspects into WCAG
14:33:58 <Jennie> ...We are trying to see if the new types of tests can help us fit in more of our tests
14:34:14 <Jennie> ...We have many examples that will hopefully help answer the question: what types of tests should be made?
14:34:20 <Jennie> ...Next:  lunch
14:34:37 <Jennie> ...After lunch - we can begin to work on some of the actions from the morning
14:34:56 <Jennie> ...Tuesday meeting 1 is Adapt - they used to be called personalization
14:35:20 <Jennie> ...They will give us an outline of where they want to go, and how we can work with them
14:35:31 <Jennie> ...Then we will focus on the Content Usable update
14:35:41 <Jennie> ...That meeting is in the COGA room
14:35:56 <Jennie> ...Rain will give an overview on what the Structure group is doing
14:36:07 <Jennie> ...Then we will brainstorm on our documents
14:36:21 <Jennie> ...The mental health subgroup will be after lunch
14:36:36 <Jennie> ...and the implications for next steps
14:36:43 <Jennie> ...Any questions?
14:36:43 <Lisa> q?
14:36:44 <Jennie> q?
14:37:00 <Lisa> zakim, next item
14:37:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc -- taken up [from Lisa]
14:37:04 <Jennie> Lisa: next item is actions
14:37:30 <Jennie> ...but there is another topic
14:37:54 <Jennie> ...We need a way to store research but this is in all different places
14:38:11 <Jennie> ...We may want to discuss a new place or mechanism for saving research
14:38:27 <Jennie> ...Do you prefer to go over action items? Or talk about this other topic?
14:39:15 <Rain> +1 to going over where we track research
14:40:03 <Lisa> topic: reserch pages
14:40:23 <Rain> q+
14:40:39 <Lisa> ack next
14:40:41 <Jennie> Lisa: do we want to put the effort into making the Google Doc: The COGA Design Guided - Research and more information more thorough?
14:40:53 <Jennie> Rain: I think that would be useful. It would also support the Structure group's work
14:41:06 <Jennie> ...The survey is showing people are asking about the research that backs up the information in Content Usable
14:41:38 <Jennie> ...I am wondering if it might make sense to do the majority of the tracking in a Spreadsheet - so it is sortable
14:41:52 <kirkwood> +1
14:41:54 <Jennie> ...Then we can insert that into a Google Doc. This way people have a choice about how to best to access it
14:42:13 <Jennie> John K: I agree to the suggestion to have it in a spreadsheet
14:42:16 <julierawe> q+
14:42:16 <Jennie> ...That would be easier
14:42:46 <Lisa> ack next
14:42:48 <aaronchu> +1 to Rain's suggestion
14:43:07 <Jennie> Julie: I agree with Rain and John. I think a benefit: we might have multiple studies for a single pattern
14:43:22 <Jennie> ...In a spreadsheet you could create a column for research #1, research #2.
14:43:36 <Jennie> ...This way you could prevent having 1 cell with multiple entries
14:43:37 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/1 : Table formatting is missing
14:43:37 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/2 : References to Research item 41 is misformatted
14:44:07 <Jennie> ...Even if we are doing it by the name of the study, it can get really complicated if you are mentioning more than 1 study per cell
14:44:32 <Jennie> Lisa: We have 4 links to WCAG proposals in different forms for Make the Purpose of your Page Clear
14:44:38 <Jennie> ...How would we do that in a spreadsheet?
14:44:53 <Jennie> Rain: If we want to be able to sort and filter, we would want them all in individual rows
14:44:59 <aaronchu> q+
14:45:07 <Jennie> ...Make the Purpose of your Page Clear repeated in each row
14:45:18 <Jennie> ...Then we could filter for just Make the Purpose of your Page Clear
14:45:20 <Jennie> q?
14:45:41 <Jennie> Lisa: But then you have 4 rows labeled Make the Purpose of Your Page Clear, but then you also have WCAG
14:45:52 <Jennie> ...How is that listed?
14:45:59 <Jennie> q+
14:46:19 <Jennie> Lisa: The only way I can see this working is to have each pattern be its own sheet
14:46:21 <Rain> q+
14:46:25 <Jennie> ack Jennie
14:46:34 <Jennie> Lisa: This would be really complicated
14:46:44 <Lisa> ack next
14:46:52 <Rain> q-
14:47:08 <Jennie> Aaron: I would volunteer to create a sample, and then everyone could try it out, and give feedback
14:47:11 <kirkwood> great!
14:47:11 <Jennie> Lisa: Thank you Aaron
14:47:24 <Jennie> Lisa: Most of the research is in research module and the issue papers
14:47:33 <Jennie> ...Do we put that link in each row?
14:47:58 <julierawe> q+
14:48:02 <aaronchu> Jennie, I am happy to sync up and collaborate offline if that works for you.
14:48:07 <Jennie> ...So Aaron are you taking the action item to try to put this into a different format
14:48:17 <Lisa> ack next
14:48:52 <Jennie> Aaron: Yes, I am happy to look at this, and get feedback
14:48:58 <julierawe> q+
14:49:03 <Lisa> ack next
14:49:17 <Jennie> Julie: I suggest - Aaron: Jennie and Shawn have started a spreadsheet on testing
14:49:32 <Jennie> ...It may be a helpful starting point - Shawn has already entered all the patterns
14:49:45 <Jennie> ...It may be useful to have 1 spreadsheet
14:50:08 <Jennie> ...I don't know if that is too much in 1 spreadsheet, but it may be helpful to have this as a starting point
14:51:07 <Jennie> Spreadsheet Shawn started: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15kHdhq_KaIgbxdNPEA0ceNZ-tMs6aAe4m_vOitEM3HY/edit?usp=sharing
14:51:27 <aaronchu> nice!
14:51:39 <Jennie> Lisa: OK, so you could copy that
14:51:48 <Jennie> ...and see how that works
14:52:04 <Jennie> Aaron: That works. I can take a look, then synch up with Shawn and Jennie offline
14:52:20 <Jennie> Lisa: great. Anything else for the extra 2 minutes?
14:52:23 <Jennie> q+
14:52:52 <Lisa> jennie: update on gaudenship
14:53:19 <Lisa> we met yesterday re: the gaudenship and supported desion making, as a kick off meeting
14:53:55 <Lisa> some sugestions on ways to move forward. Judy had a good apritiation of the need
14:54:03 <Lisa> John: agrees
14:54:51 <Lisa> we need more concrete sugestions that are easy for them to act on
14:55:07 <Lisa> michael is the point person on next steps
14:55:11 <Lisa> lisa:
14:55:22 <Lisa>  legel team are very busy
14:56:12 <Lisa> but would push faster for a person who needs it now
14:56:59 <Lisa> jennie: aregency perhapes around the process documents
14:57:46 <Jennie> *Have to drop for another meeting. Looking forward to chatting more next week!
14:57:59 <Becca_Monteleone> I am not able to join the subgroup meeting today - I will review the powerpoint this afternoon.
14:58:15 <aaronchu> I have to drop. Thanks everyone!
14:58:29 <kirkwood> Jennie, good point about the process document
15:01:49 <Lisa> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:08 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:02:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
15:11:14 <Lisa> topic: clear language subgroup: looking at examples for tpac
15:12:31 <ShawnT> present+
15:14:33 <julierawe> present+
15:16:37 <ShawnT> there's a lot of dependencies in silver / WCAG 3.0
15:19:22 <ShawnT> Also known as AGWG
15:19:31 <Lisa> q?
15:19:45 <Jennifer> Jennifer has joined #coga
15:20:23 <Lisa> ack next
15:21:23 <Lisa> overview of silver and ag
15:21:36 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Tve0g7pRufB5iShWwstwrfGdDtbn8YdsHEyN7Coj1vU/edit#slide=id.p
15:23:09 <Lisa> julie: we are close to being able to show this to wcag rachel etc
15:23:48 <Jamie_Vanderwall_> Jamie_Vanderwall_ has joined #coga
15:24:37 <Lisa> termonolgy is moving/changing but we will roll with that
15:25:51 <Lisa> looking at some comutational small tests
15:26:22 <Lisa> then we get adaptives - double negitives
15:26:55 <Lisa> we add the word unitentialy incase it is part of key mophology in some dialect somewhere
15:27:08 <Lisa> do we need tests in each language?
15:27:17 <Lisa> or can be percriptive
15:27:30 <Lisa> q+
15:32:26 <Rain> q+
15:35:13 <Lisa> ack next
15:35:15 <Lisa> ack next
15:35:23 <Lisa> q+
15:36:30 <kirkwood> +1 concern double negative creates a point that may be a blocker in conversation
15:36:53 <Rain> ack Rain
15:40:41 <kirkwood> +1 good point, lisa esp with ‘familiar design’
15:43:31 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:21 <Lisa> q+
15:47:04 <kirkwood> good point on the perception of pushing it all into a design system
16:08:27 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:08:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/08-coga-minutes.html Lisa
16:48:42 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
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