Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 24 Feb 2022

<Rain> Michael: official answer, transcript is more verbatim and would possibly need more scrubbing of things that aren't meant to be used in the translator or public

<Rain> ... we don't have the procedures for that

<kirkwood> +1 to changing that setting!

<Rain> scribe: JustineP

<Rain> Please sign for scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list

Check in with sub-groups and action requests - https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit

Rain: Checking in with David re: mental health

David: Working on lit reviews.

Jennie: Regarding images, I am working on sending meeting invitation to subgroup.

Rain: Let's do a status check after that meeting and create a timeline for images.

Jennie: Sounds good. I can put together a suggested timeline.

John K: No updates from me. Both actions are a work in progress. Is mental health recruiting still an action item?

Lisa: We're in better shape than we were. Let's raise as a topic during the next mental health meeting and follow-up on prior outreach efforts.

John K: Agreed.

Rain: John R and Julie, checking in on clear language...

Julie: We are waiting on information about protocols for reaching out to German easy language group. We also started working on ways to submit and access clear language examples.
... Eager to see what community group produces along these lines.
... After this meeting, we'll look at examples we have gathered to-date.

Rain: Will get back to you by the end of this week regarding outreach.
... COGA form will probably not be ready until after next week.

John K: Has there been outreach to plainlanguage.gov?

Rain: I will add to the issue aligned with the German group.

Julie: Hoping that I'll have time tomorrow to work on EO page regarding cognitive and learning disabilities.
... I suggest we follow EO's templates closely for a similar look and feel.

<kirkwood> well done!

JustineP: Nothing new other than lit review for mental health.

Kris Anne: Next module is beginning soon. EO is working with Personalization TF on branding.

Julie: Will follow up with you on personas.

Le: I reached out to Pacifica to get in touch with ADA regarding research from psychology students related to lit review.
... Some courses specifically cover intersection of A11Y and mental health. Outreach to those professors.

Subgroup meeting schedules - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups

Rain: Thinking about scheduling subgroup meetings ahead of time. On subgroups wiki, we've added schedule through April.
... We'll discuss clear language today. Next week will be education & outreach. Following week will be mental health.
... Does everyone feel that this is a useful approach?

Jennie: Thanks for doing that. Should the page include a list of items that are "on hold"?

Rain: Yes.
... If you feel that a subgroup isn't getting enough time, please let us know.

Lisa: Too much redundancy isn't always helpful for version control reasons. Better to limit to 1-2 places, max.

<lisas> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/WCAG_3_Coordination

Lisa: For WCAG 3, is that page the better page to update?

<kirkwood> +1 to Jennie

Jennie: For me, I might forget where a coordination page is if a few months go by. Happy to hear other perspectives.

<Jennie> +1 to Kirkwood!

John K: Recommend linking to each other.

Check in with group on April plans

Rain: We have a lot of holidays in April. How do your schedules look?

<ShawnT> I'll be around

me/I will be out for a period of time planning for a move.

<Jennie> April looks ok, grabbing a few others

<Le> April is good for me

<kirkwood> April i’m around

Lisa: We also have Passover. Easter is in April too and is in the same timeframe as Passover.

<Jennie> March 17th: is axe-con (free conference) and Jamie is speaking during the COGA call time

<Jennie> May 19 is GAAD and many of us have other obligations

<ShawnT> I won't be here during axe-con

Julie: If chairs will be out, should be meet without you or postpone?

Rachael: CSUN is also in March.

Julie: Would you explain what these conferences are?

<ShawnT> https://www.deque.com/axe-con/

Rain: CSUN is a premier A11Y conference.

<Rain> https://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/sessions/

Rain: Both are major conferences for AT and A11Y
... We have a lot going on in both conferences.

<ShawnT> https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/making-content-usable-for-people-with-cognitive-and-learning-disabilities/

Rain: Chuck and Rachael will be holding a dinner at CSUN.

<julierawe> Will we have quorum for March 17 meetings?

John K: CSUN is a time when we can have a face-to-face meeting.

<ShawnT> https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/stepping-stones-to-getting-started-in-accessibility/

<Jennie> +1 to Kirkwood!

Rachael: We usually meet at CSUN but decided not to meet as a parent group this year.
... We'll send a survey to main group and TFs to gauge interest.

Rain: Quick poll for March 17 attendance.

<Rain> Poll: who will be attending the COGA meeting on March 17

<Jennie> -1

<JohnRochford_> -1

<Rachael> -1

<julierawe> 0

<lisas> -1 (purim)

<Rain> 0

<ShawnT> -1

<kirkwood> 0

<rashmi> -1

Rain: We'll adjust schedule.

<Rain> zakim: take up item 4

TPAC questions: hybrid, Vancouver BC, mid-September

Rain: We need to give indication of TPAC interests. They are looking at a hybrid arrangement with physical location in Vancouver.

<lisas> i dont know

<Fazio> in person

<JohnRochford_> in person

<Rain> Poll: TPAC interest, in person, remote, or not attending

<ShawnT> In person

<Le> in person

remote

<Rain> in person (hopefully)

<julierawe> remote or possibly in person

<Jennie> +1 to virtual participation, possible for in person but less likely

<Fazio> in person

<kirkwood> remote, possibly in person

<Rachael> +1 to in person

<rashmi> remote

<ShawnT> me and @Fazio are going to see a punk show

<Jennie> * Nice ShawnT!

Rain: Let us know if you have topics you'd like to consider for TPAC.

Shawn: What happens during TPAC?

<Fazio> all w3c not just WAI

Lisa: Working groups meet for coordination purposes. Lots of joint meetings. During midday, there's a session on the future of W3C. Open lunches and breakouts also occur.

David F: You can attend any session even if outside of A11Y.

<Rachael> It rotates locations

<kirkwood> yes

Le: Are there accommodations for quiet rooms, locations to rest, etc.?

Michael: They plan for A11Y in general and you can request specific accommodations at registration. I will look into this as it might require more planning.

[Rachael] Update from AG and what’s coming up in surveys

Rachael: Visual Controls is coming up for review.

<Rachael> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag22-visible-controls/

Rachael: We'll also discuss scoping/protocol. It provides a possible way to address challenges of integrating Content Usable into WCAG 3.

Rain: Have you heard from Silver regarding breaking out methods, objectives, etc. for moving our content into clear language.

Rachael: I haven't heard an update and suggest sending an email.

<JohnRochford_> BRB

Michael: They might be waiting on me. I have a proposal in progress.

<Rachael> email to get all ag/silver leadership: group-ag-plan@w3.org

Julie: Asking about MIT and legal implications.

Michael: That meeting would be a good forum for an update. Process will remain the same.
... W3C has always been a joint project of 4 universities. Its about forming its own organization alongside hosts.

Review draft for COGA TF projects timeline - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit

<Rain> skipping due to time, will address next

[15 minutes] Jennie and John K report on guardianship draft

Jennie: COGA TF started to discuss who is missing from W3C process. Particularly people who do not have guardianship of themselves or have co-guardianship.

<Fazio> Like Brittany Spears before #FreeBrittany

Jennie: We considered people who live in a group home, etc.
... We investigated research around guardianship and came across concept of supported decision making.
... Will share the article. A proposal might be recommending alternative membership options for community groups and W3C participation.
... For example, a person could have guarian be a named member involved.

<Jennie> Recommend that alternative membership options for community group and W3C participation are available. These could include: A person could choose to have their guardian or another person they identify be involved (either be a named member or be a partner in their membership) to help with their participation. This could include but is not limited to supporting the person to: Review content prior to publication Manage their communications with the group

Jennie: We might also consider having an organization be a member to facilitate participation by an individual.

<Jennie> An organization could be the member in order to facilitate participation by an individual that may: Prefer or need not to be named, or manage the communications Help facilitate access to meetings and materials. Example: some individuals may not do well with independent use of a computer because they have a disability impacting their judgment but they can and do complete many tasks independently on a computer as long as they are supervised.

<Jennie> To ensure their safety, with proper support, they may be able to provide valuable input and ideas for the work of the W3C. An organization could be a supported employment organization, a congregate living facility, a "self-advocacy" organization

Jennie: A process should be available for someone to change their designated person or organization.

<Jennie> A process should be available for the individual to change their designated person/organization Example: a person selects a support professional they use regularly, then that person takes a different job Example 2: a person moves from one supported employment organization to another

John K: Canadian government seems to be advanced in this regard.

<Jennie> Drafting document, with research, though less than optimal organization: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oNrl_kghy8J1Pab-L1a_XNZr4YsIMrbEgYuttOCvtFo/edit#

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say anonymous is its own issue, being explored, this adds to use cases for it

Michael: Anonymous participation has come up in other contexts. We can look at this as a separate but related question.

Jennie: Some people thinking about anonymous participation may not need anonymous status if they have an org or person joining on their behalf as guardian.

Michael: We might include that as an option in anonymous documentation.
... They are separate but related.

I need to drop. Can someone wrap up scribing?

<Rain> *I'll wrap up, thank you Justine!

<Rain> Rain: Jennie and JohnK have a specific request for the group at this time?

<Rain> Jennie: ask group if they need more time before Michael takes this to legal

<lisas> +1 to rain

<Rain> Michael: already started the anonymous work, will look for more review from the task force before we take it on

<Rain> Jennie: will take the pieces that we put in the chat and will label it draft proposal, then people can see what looking for

<Rain> RRSAgent: make minutes

Subgroup meeting (11am-Noon ET): Clear Language - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/WCAG_3_Coordination#Clear_Language

<Rain> *We are taking a 5 minute break, please join back at 7 minutes after the hour

easy lang

<Rain> Julie has put together this document: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jC4lbvL9xPiwxaaV-vRZ1hJ-L-QLfK2XD9JtbabAx7g/edit#gid=0

<Rain> Not taking notes because Julie is showing what is in the form

<Rain> One note that we brought up is that we still need to include an option to upload a screenshot. Julie will make sure alt text is also collected

<Rain> M For reference, current draft of the community group form is here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfUFTQd_K6ujUr2um6k81NijGNpDO_xxlqZu7ewYhGSMULH7w/viewform -- note that it is for any kind of example, not just clear language, and it is still a work in progress

<Rain> Rain: good idea to capture who submitted but make it optional

<Rain> ... also have a way for people to email or add to a doc and then have someone process the information

<Rain> Lisa just noticed in the subgroup page has a link to the zoom meeting directly, which shouldn't be there, Lisa fixed it

<Rain> Lisa: cannot put links to zoom meetings in a public place, need to document that

<Rain> ... have to have a login page to the link, take note!

<Rain> Lisa: suggest a Google doc as the alternative, the one we already have where people have been dropping screenshots

<Rain> ... add another section for Language Examples

<Rain> ... regarding the database, well done, helps clarify and a good framework, but a few questions

<Rain> ... first, call everything a method?

<Rain> ... maybe call them Patterns instead?

<Rain> ... since we don't know yet if they will be methods or not

<Rain> ... second, don't like having an example that passes one and fails another

<Rain> ... would be better to have "which ones does it pass and which ones does it fail"

<Rain> ... wondering if URI is good to include?

<Rain> ... since it can change?

<Rain> ... needs debate, not clear on these options

<lisas> note there is https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-coga-comments/

<Rain> julie: want to make sure we have a system when the emails come in

<Rain> lisa: that system for where to forward these comments would be to the coga public comments list

<Rain> *Thank you John :)

<Rain> JohnRochford: accessibility challenges with the Google sheets, the screen reader isn't as helpful as needed

<Rain> ... so this isn't a mechanism everyone will use, so need to think about that

<Rain> Rain: also will be in need of a certain amount of reporting

<Rain> * the long google doc is not easier for everyone (I'm a tables person)

<JohnRochford> +1 to both

<Rain> Rain: having both enables us to let people access the content their way, have advantages and disadvantages for different people

<Rain> Julie: maybe flip it so that anyone can submit samples and they don't even have to guess if it passes or fails, and then we flip it around so that we put it on the rubric

<Rain> ... if we end up having six or seven different patterns, will be important to have examples that are specific to each

<Rain> ... harder to show examples with many things. Clear examples helpful

<Rain> Rain: love the idea of flipping so that we determine pass fail, but also would be great to ask for input on why the person submitting is adding

<Rain> Julie: yes to include, make it optional so not putting a burden on anyone

<Rain> Julie: still been waiting for months for Silver

<Rain> Rain: what are our next steps to collect data?

<Rain> Julie: where does the Google form get sent?

<Rain> Rain: will go into a spreadsheet

<Rain> Next steps: Julie and Rain get form set up and reach out to collect exampels

<Rain> s/ exampls examples

<Rain> Julie: spreadsheet will help me track our discussions

<Rain> JohnRochford: not concerned as dropdowns, what doing is sufficient

<Rain> Rain: Rain will create the form on Friday and send to Julie, then Julie can review and send to group

<Rain> ... Julie and John R will then get the info out to the group, and send regular reminders to people to send examples (weekly)

<Rain> ... and our next meeting is March 31, have lots of examples by then!

<Rain> Lisa: let's try and find two types of examples, the ones that are clear, and the ones that might look like they pass but actually fail (or the reverse)

<Rain> RRSAgent:

<Rain> RRSAgent: make minutes

- DRAFT -

Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

24 Feb 2022

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