trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 07 January 2022
<scribe> Scribe: Sharron
Daniel: We had survey comments
that were not happy with the language around how to warn people
about flashing contnet. Wanted to convey three things:
... flashing can be dnagerous
... students need to be warned about when it will be used
Daniel: students should be able to opt out without disclosing disability
Daneil: So here is the current
wording of the warnings. My question is whether this has value,
is it the right approach and is the wording correct or does it
need any edits?
... discussion?
<shawn> [ Shawn hoping someone will have minor edit tweaks to make it a bit more succinct :-]
Brent: Are there any specific wording changes or other suggestions for approach or contwnat?
<shawn> +1 for the general idea of including this type of information
<estella> +1 for including it and +1 for rewording
<shawn> +1 for those three points (give warning well ahead of time, provide option of private opt out)
Brent: The important this is to
agree to the three things you listed. First to let people know
it is a danger, second to give the alert well in advance, and
finally to make sure that students have a private way to opt
out.
... Need to be clear that "prior warning" includes enough time
to opt out
Michele: I want to be clear that
what we are advising is to encourage instructors to use
dangerous content.
... sometimes people do not know that they are suseptible to
triggering migraines and even seizures. Not everyone is aware
of that outcome even for themselves.
Daniel: Maybe going for a more theoretical content was considered. But it seemed that it would possibly be hard to understand .
Michele: Still not sure to tell instructors "Hey, show this conent." is a good approach.
Estella: The point that Michele just made was one that I found when I evaluated animated GIFs. That some people may not be aware of the impact on them. But sometimes you need examples of what is good and what is bad but the consequences are often not as dangerous as this one is.
Howard: Fist parapgraph uses blinking and flashing and second used moving content and the transisiton seemed a bit jarring. I understood the purpose but has to think about it.
Daniel: The second had a different focus and may need to work on the transisition.
Brent: It is trying to make the point that the user can pause or stop movement. It was the flashing and blinking aspect that caused us to realize we needed an example of a bad choice and then needed a warning if that kind of example were to be used.
Daniel: If we changed the order of the wording would that address your point?
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say brainstorm: perhaps give students link they can choose to look at or not on their own?
Daniel: I am hearing that we should encourage instructors to avoid using that kind of content, and if they do to put protocols in place.
Shawn: Give students a link to look at that content
Michel: And urge them not to be alone
Shawn: There is moving that is going to be annoying and there is flashing that can cause seizure. I don;t think instructors should ever show content that can cause seizures in any case.
Estella: There are epeleptic conditions that have been researched and documented. Maybe people who are new may not understand the risk - may not really know what it is. So maybe a link to some expanation.
<estella> https://www.epilepsy.com/learn/types-seizures
Daniel: So I am hearing to
revisit the approach and should look for alternatives.
... will work on this revision for next TF meeting
Brent: Hidde was working on the redesign and since he left, Shawn is leading....
Shawn: (shares screen to show
previous version in TR space) We moved those out of TR space
into main WAI site and have been working on the redesign of the
presentation. Received feedback on some elelemtns that were
left out of redesign and are bringing some back and updated the
design based on that feedback (share new design updates)
... any questions or comments on the background and status of
the update?
... That was the plan for the Understanding docs and will use
the same for Techniques, and Supplemental Guidance and ACT
Rules. Works well for Understanding since each has short
handle. The challenge with trying to apply this to the COGA
Supplemental Guidance is that these do not have short
handles.
... so Steve and I, looking at user flow within the Design
Patterns, we are proposing to use the Previous/Next nav but
without the title since the titles are so long.
Sharron: +1 looks fine
<Howard> +1
<CarlosD> +1
<Laura> +1
<MarkPalmer> +1 looks fine
<brent> +1
<Michele> +1 looks fine
<EricV> +1
<estella> +1
Shawn: I also want to show how we
set up what the user sees in Suplemental Guidance. Right now we
have COGA and will soon have Low Vision as well.
... please paly around with theis nav and let us know if it
does what you want, what you expact?
Brent: The button order seems correct to me
Michele: Why two buttons rather than Show/Hide?
Steve: It is following the WAI patterns of showing content
Michele: It is the labeling of the buttons that is confusing. Show (or Expand) all Patterns and Hide (or collapse) all Patterns is more conssitent.
<brent> +1 to Michele's idea
Shawn: And the other link is to see how all of it plays out, there are a few examples of how things are the same or different across the different resources, linked in today's agenda.
Brent: Survey was extended, Kevin
and group are going through the good feedback within the
survey. A few people got to several but not all. While we won't
reopen the survey, we want your additional feedback. So please
add comments to GitHub or if not happy there, send email to
submit any feedback you were not able to add to the
survey.
... links to GitHub and the WAI editors email address are in
the Work for this Week under Open Issues.
... so we encourage you to look at these again. The comments
were so helpful and thank you all who completed this. We
appreciate the time and thoughtful analysis you did.
Brent: Have been considering how to bring this into a format aligned with the WAI site. I will turn it over to Eric Velleman. Want to give a bit of info on Requirmements and go to quick survey to approve the Requirmements and the work can move forward.
Eric: Maybe we should start with wireframes
Shawn: And may want to show the exisiting list?
Vera: Yes will do that
<brent> Current Evaluations Tools List: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
Vera: We interviewed people from different places in accessibility - designers, teachers, practitioners. Here is screen shot of the current presentaiton. Text heavy, text covers entire screen. We watched them use it. Consluded that the current layout is very crowded it is difficult to scan (like a Where's Waldo). Info on Tools is quite technical, feels tools centered rather than purpose or task
driven.
scribe: Lacks support to find
what they want or to evaluate the qulaity or relelvance of the
tool.
... These were the three most critical issues we found. We
translated the feedback and our observations to this prototype
(shares wireframe)
<brent> Eval Tools List Wireframe Draft (figma): https://www.figma.com/proto/eRefTXCrYvCxA62xooXIKj/Waiwai?page-id=0%3A1&node-id=283%3A8247&viewport=241%2C48%2C0.5&scaling=min-zoom&starting-point-node-id=283%3A8247&show-proto-sidebar=1
scribe: implemented the new style
guide as much as possible, given context to highlight we are in
the W3C site, included Help Me Choose button to give us purpose
for using a tool.
... created more space on all pages, given options to choose
metrics, continue to remind them that auto tools have limited
ability to assess and other educational info.
... fine tuned the filters,
... are they now complete, wording edits, purpose clear, etc.
We will ask in a survey
... content we assigned to each tool. At this time it seems to
be a "sales pitch" Users said they would prefer to have a list
of features and integration, and paid or free, etc.
Steve: The Help Me Choose button, is that a Wizard?
Vera: It is a starting point for new users of tools. You can also use filters directly but this helps the user understand why they might choose one filter over another.
Brent: Now let's look at teh requirements Document. Eric do you want to quickly walk through the pieces of the doc, Eric?
<brent> Eval Tools List Revision Requirements Doc: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Evaluation_tools/Revision_2021
Eric: The contents are simple,
states the Objective, a few User stories, resources, all a bit
dependent on the filters. The more filters we ask for the more
input will be needed from teh tool providers. A list of all we
need to descibe the tool and soem research. As well we included
some information from our user interviews and sorted those into
necessary and suggested.
... several people are working on it and we should be able to
meet expectations so please look through this very critically
and let us know what might be missing or anything that does not
make sense. Second part of the survey will ask you what you
think specifically about the wireframe examples
Shawn: The questions in the current survey do not include wireframe questions
Eric: Can launch the survey of the requirements now and the prototype late.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about needing updated info from tool vendors - does that impact new info?
Shawn: Can we move the prototype to GitHub to be more accessible?
Vera: Sure
Shawn: If we add filters, we need more info from current listings. If new data is asked for do we stop listing them or just list them with missing data?
Eric: We will list them with missing data and have a plan to contact and let people knwo they can refresh their listing.
Shawn: If we have a filter with new data that people have not been able to add, it may not give correct results. It could be a significant issue and may cause us not to add new features.
Eric: It is a good incentive however to get tool makers to add new information.
Shawn: Go to Work for this Week to get the link to the survey.
<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Video-Based_Resources
Brent: We have had a video project in process. Since Shadi left WAI we have modified the plan for to proceed and we wanted to reaffirm our commitment to the project.
Shawn: Remember that we wanted to make short short videos for each SC and as we considered, we determined instead to focus on HPWDUW and the focus today was to see if EO was still prioritizing the creation of these videos, we will jump in and continue to plan how to make it so.
Brent: Take a glance at that and see if you agree that this remains an EO priority
<Laura> finished.
<MarkPalmer> finished
<EricV> finished.
<Michele> done reading
<CarlosD> finished
<stevelee> done
<estella> done
<Howard> done
Brent: We have talked about this being the next stage and the next part of work we will focus on and wanted to make clear that we all agree on this.
Sharron: Proposed: EOWG agrees that the videos to illustrate How People with Disabilities Use the Web are to be our next work priority to be led by a sub group of interested participants.
RESOLUTION: EOWG agrees that the videos to illustrate How People with Disabilities Use the Web are to be our next work priority to be led by a sub group of interested participants.
<Howard> +1
<MarkPalmer> +1
<Laura> +1
<Michele> +1
<estella> +1
Sharron: +1
<CarlosD> +1
<brent> +1
<EricV> +1
<Leticia> +1
<dmontalvo> +1
<Sylvie> +1
<Michele> Interested in being in subgroup!
Brent: Anyone interested in participanting in the sub goup let us know here in IRC or through email.
<shawn> tangent reminder of EOWG mailing lists: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Participation_Info#E-mail_Lists
Brent: meetings are about one additional meeting a week. Not sure about the timeline?
Shawn: I would say ASAP since the
goal was completion by March
... a bit of a chicken and egg since we want actors who have
the disability being illustrated.
... getting the user studies completely written, finding the
right actors, getting the production in place.
Brent: Survey will be open until
Jan 14, links in W4TW. Add additional comments to GitHub or
email for HPWDUW byt Jan14 as well, please check Open Issues
and other tasks in the work for this week on the EO meetings
page
https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Work_for_this_Week
... also don't forget to add any outreach you ahve done or seen
to the outreach page of the wiki
<brent> Outreach ideas: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Outreach#Everyone_can_do_now
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to comment on WCAG language
Brent: Some background work is
listed and there will always be issues there for your free
time, would love to hear your perspectives.
... and don't forget to update your availability.
... anything else? Happy New year!
Shawn: And here's to a better 2022
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/dange/danger/ Succeeded: s/cuased/caused/ Succeeded: s/ \me apologies, i have to drop for a bit. hope to be back before meeting end.// Succeeded: s/instructors should show that content/instructors should ever show content/ Succeeded: s/Hade/Hide/ Succeeded: s/the continuation of the plan/to proceed/ Succeeded: s/Propsed/Proposed/ Default Present: shawn, Daniel, brent, Leticia, Sharron, Michele, Estella, KrisAnne, Carlos, Mark, Laura, CarlosD, stevelee, Howard, Sylvie, MarkPalmer, VeraLange, EricVelleman WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: (no one), shawn, Daniel, brent) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ shawn, Daniel, brent Present: CarlosD, Daniel, Estella, KrisAnne, Laura, Leticia, Mark, Michele, Sharron, brent, shawn, stevelee, Howard, Sylvie, MarkPalmer, VeraLange, EricVelleman Regrets: Sylvie Found Scribe: Sharron Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron Found Date: 07 Jan 2022 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]