W3C

WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference

16 Nov 2021

Attendees

Present
CarlosD, estella, Sarah
Regrets
Dave, Gerhard, Donal F., Brent
Chair
Daniel
Scribe
CarlosD, slewth

Contents


<dmontalvo> "Visual Design Orientation Cues"

Setting up meeting, choosing scribe

<dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List

<CarlosD> scribe: CarlosD

Relationship between keyboard interactions and other interaction methods

<dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-design/#topic-keyboard-interactions

dmontalvo: we did not have a relation between keyboard support and assistive technology... we have now
... both as a learning outcome and teaching idea
... does this fit well or is there any thing that needs improving?

sleuth: I would suggest either "modes of interaction" or "ways of interacting"
... ways might be more accessible, but modes might be more accurate

dmontalvo: I will think this through, also considering the reading level

Focus indicators and programmatic focus

<dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/interaction-design/#topic-keyboard-interactions

dmontalvo: while reviewing the resource I noticed that we were missing an item on the focus positioning
... I've updated the existing learning outcome to consider also that aspect
... the teaching ideas have also been updated

estella: I like the definition provided in the teaching ideas, but I miss an example of what a complex widget can be (from a designer perspective)

dmontalvo: we do have a list of examples in the module introduction, but we need to be more explicit here

CarlosD: I have a similar question regarding "programmatic focus". Will a designer understand what it is?

dmontalvo: been looking at documentation, and would like suggestions for defining "programmatic focus"

estella: the examples of complex widgets at the top will make it easier for designers to understand

<estella> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/SL25.html

<estella> Examples. Example 1: User-enabled control that programmatically sets focus.

CarlosD: perhaps instead of using the concept "programmatic focus" we could describe the action "programmatically setting focus"

dmontalvo: agree that we should explain it better, since we do not want to provide a definition for it here

<estella> +1 for clarification

Is target size flexible?

<dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/visual-design/

dmontalvo: we discussed in the EO meeting... we were recommended to expand on this topic and address it in the forms module
... I thought about addressing it in the gestures and motion topic
... where do you think this expansion would fit best?

estella: when you refer to target sizes do you also refer to responsive design?

dmontalvo: WCAG does not directly refer to responsive design, but I think it has a relation with responsive design, that is why I place it in the flexible layouts topic

estella: I believe it would fit better in interaction design than in forms

CarlosD: +1

<slewth> scribe

<slewth> scribe: slewth

<estella> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/target-size.html

Estella: looking at responsive layout and responsive design when dealing with target size
... it would be good to mention it - these are 2 concepts - but they are linked

Daniel: yes. We've discussed whether to have module/topic on responsive design. This was removed because..

it was seen to be one approach to design, design adapts in multiple ways, so it was thought lets not stress only this, when it is multifold

scribe: but let's see how we can connect this. The reference to responsive design, is it in there?

Estella: The term 'responsive design' may be more resonate for designers. If target size is only mentioned, they may not have a clear view of what this means. But if we include responsive design with this, it may be clearer.
... this is a comment, my point of view.

Daniel: I may follow up with you on this one.

Estella: Kevin may be able to help here as he is close to designers

Daniel: So you're suggesting we explore how to connect these 2 terms, to see what is better understood, to clarify target size in view of responsive design

Teaching Designers and Developers together

<dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/#introduction

Daniel: The July survey and EO suggest structure needed changing...

we added paragraph on structure that we've chosen, saying 'this is to teach designers, acknowledging they're often taught with developers, please adapt as necessary', added in august..

now we've made changes to structure, what does this paragraph add? Now we have use cases...

e.g. faculty teaching designers and developers together is already on front page, so proposal is to delete this paragraph. It has been edited out...

EO was agreeing that this should be removed...

Checking that Task Force support this side that para should deleted...

Estella: I think it's important designers and developers work together, but the structure is not there, so I agree
... also the user experience is somehow lost - is user experience mentioned?

Daniel: user experience was going to be on first page, but technically all of this is user experience, and these are the recommendations and requirements have have to be there...

but I do see the enumeration here leads you to think this is going to be discussed in module 3, but it should be throughout...

scribe: we have design user experiences for
... notifications.

Estella: User experience could be expressed...

Daniel: I need to take a pass at this, so express this differently, adding text to express interaction to the user experience is discussed/embedded across the whole curriculum...

would that be better if it's used in more generic context...

Estella: throughout, yes.
... but how it's now raised, it's model 1, model 2, it needs to be a full consideration.

Daniel: Yes, I'll take a pass at this paragraph, so user experience is perceived across the modules.

slewth: Agree with Estella - important to express value of User experience explicitly as a value of accessibility, seeing this in our research

Daniel: making sure that user experience is shown across the piece and not potentially shown only as part of a module.
... anything addition?

Clarifying scope for

Daniel: Topic Orientation Cues in visual design, has gone though several iterations...

in learning topic - we had use text cues, provide for visual only, with calendar example - this had a few issues, it was similar to colour alone...

scribe: this was convoluted. and the last iteration based on last weeks discussion now is simplified, although still long. The example has been updated on Kevin's suggestion...

in terms of orientation cues, this is the last point...

are we happy with these changes?

Estella: I think this was a discussion at the EO meeting, so I would agree with that.

Daniel: I think you were there! We discussed in the Task Force and then Brought to EO...

this is how it now looks.

Estella: I have no further comments.

Slewth: no comments from me.

Daniel: These are last points on the agenda. some minor changes before we launch the survey. This part on user experience, and exploring the connection between target sizes and responsive design in terms of designer understanding...

and there's also the comments we've had on programmatic focus. Slight changes, I'll work on these this week.

Daniel: Thank for that! We'll talk next Tuesday. I'll consider whether this goes to EO and keep you posted.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2021/11/16 17:44:55 $