W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

04 November 2021

Attendees

Present
addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Fatima, Fuqiao, JcK, r12a, Richard
Regrets
Felix
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Bert

Meeting minutes

<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!

<r12a> see https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

action-1034?

<trackbot> action-1034: Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN

<addison> action-1090?

<trackbot> action-1090: Addison Phillips to Reach out to apa about potential joint publication of t2s ruby requirements with i18n -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1090

<trackbot> Closed action-1090.

action-1091?

<trackbot> action-1091: Atsushi Shimono to Create repo for ruby t2s doc -- due 2021-11-04 -- OPEN

<atsushi> https://w3c.github.io/ruby-t2s-req/

atsushi: I did.

<addison> close action-1091

<trackbot> Closed action-1091.

Info Share

<xfq> https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#changes-2020

xfq: On Tuesday, Process 2021 was approved.
… There is a new registries track.
… But not required. Can also still make WDs and RECs.
… NOTEs track now separate from REC track. So NOTE drafts are not called WD anymore, but Draft Note.
… And a NOTE can be endorsed and become a Statement.

r12a: Sounds like what we tried to avoid by publishing NOTEs instead of RECs...

addison: Also interesting in the process: horizontal review for updating RECs is sketchily described.
… I hope we don't get any ‘I want to update my REC next week’ requests.

r12a: We need to talk more with Philippe and stress reviews at the start.
… URL vs URI, what is the reference for URIs?

addison: The WHATWG spec on URL has a kind of profile for URI.

JcK: RFC 3986/3987 is maybe half, a little too focused on http.

RADAR Review

Next week is 11 Nov, Armistice 1918 in France and the US.

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: No new review requests.

What time is this meeting at?

addison: I'll need to move the comments of Payment Confirmation, which we decided last time.

addison: Current time OK?

david_clarke: time OK for now, but not sure what my new job will be like.

<addison> https://everytimezone.com/?t=61832280,384

Whither trackbot?

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/2017/09/i18n-meeting-info.html

addison: Trackbot is being deprecated. GitHub is recommended. How do we do action items now?

trackbot, help?

<trackbot> Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<addison> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

David_clarke: 16 years. Long-running software is good.

xfq: If we still use it, they will still support it.

r12a: That warning on the IRC page seems to have been there since 4 month. So we may not be in imminent dager.

addison: Trackbot integration with IRC is nice. Could use a GitHub project board, but...

IFD review

<atsushi> https://w3c.github.io/IFT/Overview.html

<atsushi> https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

atsushi: spec based on a report.
… They tried to transfer per glyph, not code point.
… This spec tries to transfer code points.
… But seems not to be working.
… Some fonts have dedicated glyphs.

addison: Maybe if they also transfer all code points related to a given code point...

atsushi: Maybe we should ask them.

r12a: Chris and Myles [spec editors] should be aware of the issue.

addison: In indic scripts, e.g., you may need all the vowel-marked and conjuncts.

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/PFE-evaluation/

addison: I don't quite see how this can be used. Maybe for simple fonts, when code point = glyph.

r12a: The report shows some arabic glyphs. I cannot remember what my conclusions were when I read it :-(

addison: The report contains the sort of things we talked about, so they do know.

r12a: The conclusion (section 6) has something.

addison: What does the last para, about massive cost increase, mean?

david_clarke: Network latency?

atsushi: compared to rendering time [scribe missed]

addison: Do we have a question to ask them?

r12a: Seems good to have a section about its usage. Although it does already point to the report.
… Maybe a summary of the report can be added to set the scope of the spec. It seems it is not to be used for scripts that need shaping, e.g.

xfq: It says there will be a separate document for other methods than Patch.

david_clarke: There may be an issue with fingerprinting: if you download specific pieces of a font.

r12a: Yes, that makes sense, for some kinds of small content.

<xfq> Privacy section is entirely missing

atsushi: Web fonts and caching, may be hard to fingerprint.

addison: But I can place a rare glyph in a page and if you request it, I know you looked at the page.
… atsushi, do you want to draft comments? Do you need help?

atsushi: I would first ask why they choose to base it on code points rather than glyphs. I can draft a comment on GitHub.
… I will add it to our tracker.

addison: Don't wait to send it to them.
… Should we raise a fingerprinting issue?

Closing the loop on Payment Request

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971/files

r12a: We could, but maybe not as a WG, as it is a security question [not i18n] question.

r12a: pull request adds a note that seems to say all we asked for.

addison: Might avoid the word ‘may’, as it is a technical term.

r12a: I'd prefer not to avoid ‘may’ and rather style it specially when used normatively.

xfq: As a note, it is non-normative in essence.

addison: Shall I do a review and comment and approve?

r12a: Yes, I think so.

addison: Language negotiation is a separate thing.

r12a: And we don't expect to resolve that before they publish this.

addison: OK, I will approve it then.

Action: addison: file review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may'

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1092 - File review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may' [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].

Action: addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1093 - Ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].

addison: We should talk to TC39 about a datatype for localizable string. That's a slow process. Should I start it?

Discussion about the words localization vs localizable vs internationalization.

Action: addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1094 - Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-11].

addison: r12a, was there a response from Alan on CSS?
… I reserved a slot in my agenda.

Thanksgiving is the 25th.

AOB?

<r12a> s/<r12a> addison, i think you're an hour early//

<r12a> s/<r12a> :-) good job !//

<r12a> s/<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference//

<r12a> s/<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!//

<r12a> s/ :-) good job !//

<r12a> s/ :-) good job !//

Summary of action items

  1. addison: file review approving payment request text plus personal comment on 'may'
  2. addison: ping localizable thread and seek to resolve next steps with whatwg
  3. addison: start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/Note Draft/Draft Note/

Succeeded: s/So we not be in/So we may not be in/

Succeeded: s/Then/The/

Succeeded: s/atsush/atsushi/

Succeeded: s/r12/r12a/

Failed: s/<r12a> addison, i think you're an hour early//

Failed: s/<r12a> :-) good job !//

Failed: s/<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference//

Failed: s/<addison> topic #i18n Remember the time change!!//

Succeeded: s/addison, i think you're an hour early//

Succeeded: s/trackbot, prepare teleconference//

Failed: s/ :-) good job !//

Failed: s/ :-) good job !//

Succeeded: s/:-) good job !//

Maybe present: david_clarke, xfq